At the Core of 44-Part 1: With Tim Sears

EP9-At the Core of 44

Erin: [00:00:00] So I'll just start by saying, welcome Tim. We are super to have you on the show. You're one of those guys that you meet and we gotta know you. Say real quick about Tim. I saw him from across the room cuz he's a gigantic man and he stands out in a crowd and he came up to me, approached me and shook my hand and said, I am tall Tim.

And I said I am short Erin. that was our introduction, but yeah, we're so happy to have you.

Cinnamon: And I know Erin got to meet you first, she ran over to me and she's you've gotta meet this guy at this next table. And I was like, which one? And that was the end of any discussion of who Tim was, right? Like it was, he is the one closer to the ceiling. And just whether it was talking to you one-on-one or in a group or watching you talk to other people, your enthusiasm is [00:01:00] contagious.

Like you're the kind of guy that you can watch and you just get a smile on your face watching you because it translates. It's like this ether thing with you that your passion and your kindness and your investment in what you're doing just

Tim: You're making me blush.

Cinnamon: it was really cool to

Erin: Ah, and we got it on recording.

Tim: exactly. I love it. No I'm so honored to be one of your guests. I'm really looking forward to it and it's gonna be a lot of fun. And I had so much fun with you guys and in meeting you at the 1st RC there in South Bend, Indiana, and just. Been looking forward to this. It'll be fun.

Erin: Yay. We tricked him. We got 'em convinced.

Cinnamon: He is been he believes

Tim: no, I love your guys' podcast. You guys do a great job and the interviews you have and everything are just fantastic. And your guests, and so yeah, I, it's a real [00:02:00] honor for me to be here.

Erin: Awesome.

Cinnamon: We take that very as a strong compliment. I think that to have someone who is, given that we're all the way over here in the middle West and you're a west coaster and have created something so phenomenal and so powerful and literally like rise up from the ash kind of phoenix.

Development of your organization to have you say that we're doing good works and it

Tim: And changing lives. That's why we do this, right? The reason we're in this business is to change lives and to help people. And I did that in the fire service for 44 years and absolutely loved it. And then I had this opportunity to be able to do it even more. Thank

Erin: exactly why we are excited to have you on here because you have that experience, and it's really hard to change a life if you haven't had the experience. That's what makes it work. Being in the [00:03:00] trenches and understanding the hardships that come along with not only your career but, but in life in general, is how we can create and provide value for others moving forward.

So sometimes it takes the school of hard knocks, if you will, to be able to offer that to folks.

Tim: abs Absolutely.

I got some hard knocks that I can tell you about.

Erin: good. All right.

Cinnamon: we're very excited. I think that one of the most powerful things that you bring to the table is just so much experiential wisdom in terms of, we can sit and talk about what we've learned from you all, or what we've read in books or got out of trainings, but this is why we have first responders on is because what we have to say.

It only goes so far, and sometimes that's not very far at all with some people. It really is getting the people who [00:04:00] says, I've been where you are. I've thought those thoughts, I've had those experiences, and even with all of that said, it's not this idealized. Level of recovery and mental wellness that is not achievable, that we just put on this pedestal.

But you are one of those examples of how it can go from, I didn't know what it was, I didn't wanna talk about it once I knew what it was. And then now this is where I am and I'm running an organization, I'm retired. I'm talking about it on podcasts. you're moving your feet to, help the guy that comes behind you, the gal that comes behind you, so they don't have to suffer in silence as long as you and many others did.

Tim: Really appreciate what you said there because I want to help the next generation. I don't want them to go through what I've gone through. I want to make sure that they get tools and the resources [00:05:00] that they're going to need. It's not a matter if they want 'em or not, it's, they are going to need them in order to have the career that they want to have as a first responder.

Cinnamon: And keep the family they've wanted to

Tim: Absolutely.

Cinnamon: while working through that

Tim: Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes when I'm asked to come and speak to people they'll say, Hey we want you to, feel free to interchange with the audience and stuff. And I'll walk in the room and, it's, here's tall Tim and all that kind of stuff.

then I'll just come out with a question and I'll say, how many of you are in a relationship? And everybody raises their hand, right? And then I'll say, okay, how many of you are in a relationship at home? And, 90% of the people are raising their hands. And I'll say, how many of you want to stay in that relationship for the duration of your life?[00:06:00] 

And they raise their, a lot of folks raise their hands. There's still, there's some that will lower their hands, but they're not they're I'm not sure about, I'm not sure about this one I'm in right now, and then I'll say, oh,

Cinnamon: I'd like you to meet my

Tim: yeah exactly. And, and I've And I've had guys say that.

They're like, are you talking about my first wife or my second wife, or my current, anyway and then my next question is, how many of you have a plan on to achieve that? Do you have a plan to be able, because in your career as a first responder, I know you have a plan.

Erin: yeah.

Tim: When you decide, Hey, I want to be a first responder. And it's okay, I need I gotta go take a test. I gotta talk to a firefighter. I gotta talk to a police officer. I gotta talk to someone to figure out what do I need to do to make this happen. And so there's a plan there. And then it's okay, I gotta take a test, and then I gotta take a physical, and then I gotta take a mental evaluation.

Okay, great. There's a plan there. And [00:07:00] oh, by the way here's a chief's interview, and now you get hired and we're gonna ship you off to rookie school, right? We're going to, you're gonna go through an academy and we're gonna train you on what it is to be a police officer or firefighter, or correctional officer y you know, an e m s person, whatever it is, you're gonna get trained in that.

And so there's a plan, there's a plan, there's a plan, there's a plan E every step of the way. And then once you get in, you're a rookie for a year and you're looking at everything, and you're looking at the people that you're working with, and you're like, Hey, I this e m s thing.

Maybe I'll go be a paramedic, or, Hey, maybe I'll be a Truckee or maybe I'll move up into being a rank of a lieutenant someday or something. There's a plan. There's always a plan. And so when you have that plan, the great thing about the the first responder world is there's all these tools available to help you achieve that goal [00:08:00] and to live out that plan, is great.

It's awesome. You're being trained on how to be successful. The problem Is how many of us, even whether you're a first responder or not, how many of our, how many of us have had any type of training that helps us with our relationships?

Erin: None.

Tim: It we just it doesn't exist. We're not teaching it in the schools.

We're not teaching it, it's just, it's not there. And it's vital. It's so vital because most of us, you guys know this, that most of us come from this world of trauma and of just the different things that we've dealt with as kids, right? We watched our parents how they communicated or didn't with exactly and it's oh my gosh, I don't want to be in a relationship like that.

And then [00:09:00] your spouse, on the other hand, they may have came from a toxic environment as well. And now you're bringing these two people that have these examples of, eight, 18, 20, 30 years of poor examples of what a relationship looks like. And now you're gonna put 'em together and you're gonna say, we wish you luck. Live happily ever after.

Cinnamon: Yeah, happily ever after. It's once you get to the happily ever after part of the story, that's the end of the story. But the reality is that's just the beginning. But all of our cultural focus on relationships is how to get in one and how to find the person to get into one. But there's no discussion about how do you stay there in a healthy, happy

Erin: And normalizing the idea too, that it's Part of the growth in a marriage and in a relationship is the miscommunication, is the disagreements and the arguments. And so I [00:10:00] grew up in a family where my folks never argued. And so when they said, Hey, we're getting a divorce, I was like, what? But that was part of the problem, is they were so disconnected from their marriage that there was nothing to argue about.

They were living separate lives in the same home. And so there's that side of things too, is disagreements aren't bad, but it's learning how to communicate through the disagreements that is gonna make the relationship grow and thrive and be effective. Yeah.

Tim: Absolutely. I, in my household, when I grew up, my dad said what he said, and that was it. There was no, there was never an argument, there was never a disagreement because if there was, you would be laying on the floor. And so there was no disagreement. You just, yeah. You just went along. Dad said this, okay, we're gonna do that.

And that's the end of it. And when I came into my relationship with my bride of 29 [00:11:00] years, just this last week, 29 years, you guys,

Erin: and I love that you still call her bride. Oh, it my

Tim: oh, she is, she's my bride. She's my bride. And I'm so lucky that she married me and I'm so lucky that she has stayed married to me. We've been through so much together. I've put her through so much pain and suffering. I just, yeah I can't honestly I can't believe she's still with me through all of this.

Erin: I can't do.

Cinnamon: can. can and here's why. Because this is who you are. Everything else was layers of issues that just needed to be removed, addressed. But your bride is the one person who is never lost focus of who you actually are, probably even when you did. So she knows who she married. And who was underneath all the pain and suffering and [00:12:00] the symptoms and the decision making.

Like she knew

Tim: Okay. You're not gonna make me cry. Are you? mind me cry on show?

Cinnamon: I'm I have made a few men cry in my life. gonna

Tim: Oh, man.

Cinnamon: that's not my goal.

Tim: yeah. No she's wonderful and she totally supports everything that I have. Gone through and been through and the hurt in the department and the different things that have happened to me in my career, and then the aftermath and everything. But you were asking me, I we're getting off the track a little bit.

You, you asked me about how did I get into this, right? How did I start in the fire service and stuff? And it's a fairytale story, if you will, because I have dyslexia pretty bad. And so I listened to books and I do all that kind of stuff. And I was diagnosed with learning disabilities when I was a kid.

I was hyperactive. I was [00:13:00] sometimes outta control. It was really a bad scene. And there's a lot of things that I have just blocked out of my memory about my childhood. And, but the one thing that I remember that was a really great thing about the my childhood was that I was at school one day and it was in California.

I was born in Huntington Park, California, and I was at school. And the firefighters showed up and our playground area was all asphalt. And they had, monkey bars with pads under and all that kinda stuff, but it was all asphalt and the whole school was outside. And we were getting to watch these firefighters go through all these different drills and, they put their bunker gear on and they were climbing ladders and they were squirting water and they were taking the hydrants and they were doing all this really cool stuff and picking people up on stretchers and moving around.

And it was all going on at one time. And they were in uniform [00:14:00] and, guys were yelling and, yes sir, and no sir, and all this just going around doing all this kind of stuff. Their rigs were red, they were beautiful. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Who are these guys? Where are they?

And it was just like, that was my first look. And then after the show that they did,

They came into our classroom, and I can't tell you a thing I learned when I was a kid, but I can remember exactly what that firefighter said and what he did. He walked into the room. He had his uniform on, he had a badge on, he had his radio on.

And he was just dressed, in this gorgeous uniform and patches and everything. And my eyes were just glued on this guy. And he, I think he probably had a mustache, I don't know. I, and he just talked about how remembered being in a classroom like this when he was a kid and a firefighter came in and da.

And I'm just like going, I'm in. I don't know what I'm [00:15:00] gonna do, how this is gonna work. But we moved out of East la my dad lost his job. And we moved to Toppenish Washington, which is in the Yakima Valley. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. It's the fruit bowl of the state. It's actually on the Yakima Indian Nation Reservation.

It's a city of ish. And we have a big rodeo there. And it's a real cowboy town, and so you've got, the Cowboys, the Indians and the guys that are, playing sports and all that kind of stuff. It's just this kind of place. And so my dad was a reserve police officer.

My uncle was a fire was a police officer. My neighbor was a police officer. My best friend's mom was a police officer. So I grew up, at that age with all police officers. And I just figured, oh, I'm gonna grow up and I'm be a police officer.

Erin: Yeah.

Tim: And I didn't have a real good relationship with my dad.

And I ran away from home a few times, especially when we moved [00:16:00] to Ish cuz I was just out of my whole element and lost all my friends and all that kind of stuff. I my neighbor, another neighbor was a firefighter and he reached out and he said, Hey Tim, I want you to come down to the firehouse.

And I was like 13 years old. And so I rode my bike down there and he was at work and it's a small little town and so there was only one firefighter and it was him. And, but if there was a call then the volunteers would come and they would meet at the call and they had a green light that was going in their car.

And that let everyone know that they need to allow the firefighter to get by to go to the call cause they're gonna go help somebody. And I would go down there and just hang out at the fire station and he'd show me the rigs and he'd say, Hey, we need to roll some hose, or We need to clean the bathrooms, or we need to, vacuum upstairs or, whatever.

And he just had me be a part of it and be there with him. And his name was Ron Cobb. He's in firefighter heaven right now. [00:17:00] But he just he just took me under his wing and some of the other guys that he worked with and the volunteers, they were all like, Hey Tim, how you doing? Come on, we're gonna do fill the boot this next weekend.

Why don't you come and help us? And just all these things. And so the day I turned 16, they called me and said, Hey, we need you to come down to the fire station. And so I went down to the fire station and there was a set of bunkers and contract right there. And they said, we want you to be a part of our team.

We want you to be a volunteer firefighter. I, that was it. I was in, all the things that happened with, my, my dad and my uncle and all the different things that I was just like, oh my gosh these guys want me here and so I'm gonna do this. And so I became a volunteer. And back then you had to have your advanced first aid.

And the and in that department, e m s wasn't there. They would go to calls and tear up the car to, get [00:18:00] people out and all that kind of stuff. But that's when people weren't wearing seat belts, so the accidents were, and the cars were made out metal.

And so the accidents were just brutal and people were just, destroyed. And So anyway, I'm 16 years old. I started as a volunteer. I'm doing this kind of stuff. The mortuary was right down the street from the fire station, and that's where the aid car was. And they did the e m s. And so since I was a young guy, the firefighters really didn't want to get into doing first aid.

They didn't want to be EMTs. And so the some of them though, would volunteer over at the mortuary. And so they called me and said, Hey, we know that you have your first aid and you just got your advanced first aid. Would you like to work with us? So I went to work at the mortuary also. So whether it was a fire call or it was an e m s call, I had a pager.

I was going and I was 16. I [00:19:00] just got my, I just got my driver's license. I was just, the whole thing. It was crazy. It was crazy. But

Cinnamon: Barely have a fully developed not even like you still got nine years to go before everything is where it's supposed to be. And so that is really there's so many pros to helping you find your way and shape your trajectory and give you an outlet for that angst and help you find your purpose.

And also that is a really young age to be exposed to the atrocities that you know you're

Tim: So I saw some amazing horrifying things at the age of 16 and I, I can share a story with you if you want it. So one of the biggest things that I remember is we were on a call there was a a car accident. I got a page in the, like three o'clock in the morning, and it was some teenagers that [00:20:00] had been drinking and driving.

They lost control of their car. It slid on its side. They got decapitated. It was horr horrible thing. And I get back to the, so we get that all taken care of and the troopers are there and everybody's, doing all their stuff and everything. We get back to the station and there was a couple of kids that kind of made it.

And so we were able to get 'em to the hospital and stuff. And anyway we get back to the to the station. And we're cleaning the rigs, we're doing all this stuff, and the sun is just now coming up. It's just barely coming up. And the bay doors were open and this car pulls up, this station, wagon pulls up and we're thinking they need directions, whatever.

And so I run out there and the guys that I'm working with are older guys. They're like in their thirties, right? And and so I run out there and, Hey, can I help you? And this lady gets out of her car and she's holding the blanket and she walks over and she hands [00:21:00] me the blanket and it has some weight to it.

And it is just this is like split second stuff, right? This is split second stuff. And so I go like that and as soon as I accepted the blanket from her, she didn't say anything. She was She was either native American or or Mexican. I just, I'm not sure if we didn't really converse.

She looked very sad. She handed me the blanket. I took the blanket, she jumps back in the car takes off, and I'm like, what? What's going on? And so I, hold the blanket and I lift it up to look and it's a dead baby. And I'm 16. I've never seen that before, right? And I'm like, I'm in shock because I'm like, this is, it didn't look real honest with you.

It just, it didn't look real. And so I turned around and the guys were like, teasing me about, oh, did you give 'em wrong directions? Or, they give you a blanket, but, just guys ribbing you a little bit.

Erin: Yeah.

Tim: And I walk [00:22:00] in and one of the older guys walks over and he. He not, he notices my face and he looks, and he is, what is it?

And he opens it up and he is, he immediately turned around and vomited. Just like e it was like instant, like boom, that was it. And I'm still holding this blanket. The other guy's what's going on? And I can't even speak. And then the mortician comes out and he knew what, and he took, it was a thing, right?

It was just, it was crazy. It was so crazy. And I've seen other miscarriages and Sid's deaths and that sort of thing, but that one just does not leave your mind, your brain, right? And at 16, how do you process that? And we didn't talk about it. I didn't go home and tell my mom and dad.

I didn't tell, you just. You just, and so my analogy now you guys is I tell the story of I have this nap sack on my back. I have this ruck sack

And I just [00:23:00] stuffed it. I just put it in there. I just forgot about it. And all these different calls that I went on and all the things that I was able to do at 16 years old, 17 years old for the past 44 years, I would just put it away.

I would just, I would stuff it away in that ruck sack. And it just kept, it kept happening. It just over and over every time it just kept happening. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. But I so from there I went to community college and I was a volunteer there. And then from community college in the Columbia Basin tri-Cities area.

And then from there I went to W S U Go COOs, and I was right in the fire station right at W S U, right on campus. And that was an amazing experience. That fire station was there for a hundred years, and then they shut it down. And then the City of Pullman took over the volunteer program that way. So then from there I I [00:24:00] graduated from college.

Remember I've got this learning disability, right? So it's not easy for me to get through school. So it actually took me six years to get a degree. 

Erin: But you didn't quit.

Tim: I did. I'm not a quitter. I'm really not a quitter. I lived out of my car for a while and I worked a lot of different jobs and finally got hired with the city of Kirkland.

And after I got hired with the city of Kirkland, I was there for about a year. And and it was an amazing opportunity to be hired with that department. And the, one of the reasons I got hired was because my physical ability, you said, I'm a big guy, I was able to physically do well on their physical test.

And back then it was, you got points that went towards your total score. So my written score wasn't great, but my physical score was real. I did real well that with that. And so they combined them and that's how I got hired. And so it was a real [00:25:00] blessing cause I took 18 different tests before I got hired, and it was just because of my dyslexia and not being able to do well on tests and that sort of thing.

And it absolutely, yeah.

Cinnamon: ask a question, Roe? So keeping in mind like can you just for us, those of us who are terrible at math, about what year was this?

Tim: Which when I got hired,

Cinnamon: When, yeah, when you were getting hired, when you were going through school, like the seventies,

Tim: oh yeah. I started in the fire service at 16 and it was in the seventies.

Cinnamon: Okay,

Tim: We were riding tailboard and we have SCBAs.

Erin: Oh my gosh.

Cinnamon: oh Lord, and everything was canvas. The reason I ask is because I think a lot of our listeners who are younger may not necessarily realize the advantages that they may or their peers may have today in our education system when [00:26:00] it comes to support, resources, advocacy, intervention.

But I'm going to guess that you are pretty much winging

Tim: We,

Cinnamon: You are trying to navigate all of this, the dyslexia, how to take a test, how to manage the way that your brain works, so you could actually display your knowledge in a standardized format that did not. with your brain and you were on 

your doing 

Tim: Yeah. It wasn't until after I, I was diagnosed with learning disabilities A D H D I, you name it, all the acronyms. I didn't know what any of that stuff meant, but it was as my life was, as I was getting older, I was getting diagnosed with more things, if you will. And it was

Cinnamon: like almost a, more

Tim: yes.

Yeah. When I was,

Cinnamon: It wasn't just the learning

Tim: When I went to Ws u. I started with criminal justice there at Columbia Basin Community College, [00:27:00] and it was more hands-on. It was like, Hey, these are handcuffs. This is how you frisk someone. This is how use a baton. This is, all the different things you do as a police officer.

And then I went to W S U and I said, they said what major do you want to major in? Because I got in the fire department first. And and I said I started with criminal justice. And they go, oh, we have a criminal justice degree here at W S U. We'll put you in that. So my first day of class, I kid you not, was a law class, a pre-law class, and the book was this thick and they said, you need to read this much of that book by the next class, and we are going to give a dissertation.

It was just this crazy thing. And I'm like going. I'm screwed, I'm done. I guess I'm going home because, and then they put me through some tests and all this stuff and they're like, okay, you've got learning disabilities and, da, and all this kind of stuff. It was really hard.

It was really hard. And so they actually looked at my scores, looked at my [00:28:00] personality and all that kind of stuff, and they said, we think you should go into recreation. And so I got my degree in recreation. I went from criminal justice to recreation. And it's funny because I used to be a lifeguard and I some lessons and all that kind of stuff.

And recre, the degree of recreation was more hands on. You got to teach classes and did things and you worked with spec. I just worked with Special Olympic kids and all these different really cool things. And I was able to get my degree and that was my goal was to get a degree.

So it was really tough

Erin: And was a way, like there was an adoption. Of course, it wasn't what you originally went in there with, but it would be easy to be like, forget it. I'm just never, obviously I'm not gonna get to do what I wanna do because, and there is a version where you could have played like victim to the circumstance, but you're I guess I'm gonna adapt.

And in [00:29:00] turn the fire, like being in the fire service, having this recreation background, which is, it's a recreational activity, if you will, a career. Yeah, I'm, I imagine that kind of served you later on.

Tim: I became the social director at our fire station at W S U. I was the, so Social director, recreation director. And so I set up all the dances and parties and everything with the sororities and cuz we were the Fi R House, so it was yeah, I, it was a lot of, it was a lot of fun.

I had a lot good times. And then when I finally did get hired with the Kirkland fire department, they took advantage of it as well of being able to have me put on different events and different things like that. So it was a

Cinnamon: You are like Julie on

Tim: Yeah.

Erin: looks

Tim: That way.

Yeah. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. But Wssu was a very interesting fire department as well because we were all college students and we had a fire chief that came in and he said, look, he goes, [00:30:00] if you screw up, he goes, no one's ever gonna forget it. So you, because you're students, and so you have to be an example out on campus as well as here in the station and on calls. And we really took it seriously and we disciplined each other and we kept each other in line. And we had some interesting ways of taking care of people that got outta line.

Cinnamon: I was just thinking, would you draw any parallels between perhaps not the Fi R House, but other houses that may have letters in terms of that self moderating self modulating, like behavior modification. Don't do that, do this because this is what it looks like and 

Tim: And this is and, back then, we're talking we're talking in the eighties, right? We're in the eighties now. [00:31:00] And back then, fraternities and sororities were just kind of crazy places. They just were animal house yeah. That was that timeframe.

And and it was and W s U was known for being the party school and that sort of thing. It was again, a lot of very unique situations that you would see at a young age. If you're working in the fire department and you're, we became EMTs there, the emergency medical technicians there at W S U and some of the calls we saw were just like, oh my gosh, this is crazy.

Cuz ws u's out in the middle of the Palouse and so it's a real farming community, a lot of wheat farmers and stuff like that. And so when the town of Pullman or some of the county areas were overwhelmed, they would call W s U firefighters to come in and help 'em out. And so whether it was a wheat fire or grass fire or if it was a, big accident or whatever, or they're [00:32:00] on calls cuz they're, a lot of them were volunteers back then.

As well departments we would go and help each other and yeah. And so you saw some agricultural. Accidents and those are pretty brutal.

Erin: Brutal. Yeah, I was thinking

Tim: When a farmer calls 9 1 1, it's a bad scene. It's a bad scene. You guys cuz they don't call,

Cinnamon: yeah.

Tim: They'll duck. They'll put on duct tape and they'll, do whatever they need to do and yeah. 

Cinnamon: actually grew, I grew up in a farming community and was in four H and took animals. And even now the fields by my parents' house is rented out to people who plant and harvest. And usually it's hay and soybeans in Ohio.

But yeah, that is it is like pulling teeth to get those folks to call or even get any kind of medical assistance. So if you're [00:33:00] getting that nine one one call y 

Erin: It's serious.

Cinnamon: Serious. you're looking at amputations things already being, having been cut and yeah, it's a 

Tim: a another call that I remember I'll never forget, and I don't know if you want me to share calls or not

Erin: great.

Cinnamon: You your part and then Erin will do her part. And when 

Tim: okay,

Cinnamon: and we can

Tim: so there was this call, I'll never forget, And it was a c p R call and it came in right when the sun was coming up. And Toppenish is this this community on the reservation, but then there's another community that's called White Swan and it's probably 35, 40 miles from there.

And that's really like reservation, getting close to the reservation that if you're not Native American, you can't go on, right? It's that close. And so this call came in for a trooper that called in that needed assistance. We didn't [00:34:00] really know what we were going to, but we went there and it took us probably 15 to 20 minutes to get there.

Literally just to get to the call. And that's, we're the aid car from the mortuary and we get the call, I got my pager, I get out of, out of bed. I put my clothes on, I jump in the car, I drive to the place, get the aid car. And now we're driving to the, so it took a while before we got there, right?

This trooper is out in this farm and we knew we were out in the middle of nowhere, but it's on this farm. And this guy, this trooper is doing c p r on a guy that's laying out in the drive, not driveway, but like dirt area in front of the farmhouse. And we get there and it's It's a bloody mess.

And this guy's head is just destroyed and he's just and the trooper's eyes were like [00:35:00] this big, he's trying to do save this guy's life. And we're like, what happened? And so we take over and we start doing cpr, we throw him on the gurney and back then it was scoop and go. We weren't medics, so we scooped him up and we had to do C P R all the way back to, so 20 minutes back into town to the hospital in Toppenish, and we're doing C P R in the back of the rig on this guy.

It's just a mess. It's just a absolute horror mess. And we get there and the doctor comes out to the rig and he's He's dead. You know that's how we could stop is because the they would come out and Yeah, exactly. And so we're like, okay, what happened? And the trooper got there and he was covered in blood.

And this guy, it was this was just a, it was a train wreck, right?

Erin: from a movie.

Tim: It was so weird. So here's what happened though. So this guy comes home, this farmer goes out to do his fields right before the sun [00:36:00] comes up and he goes out. He forgets his lunch. So he comes back home and finds this guy that's outside his head's all bashed in trying to attack his wife. And so he goes out to his truck and he gets a shovel, and he beats the guy to death with a shovel. he dropped out there and the, when the trooper got there, he had him in the car. And he's working on this guy. And I'm just like, this is this real?

I'm just like, is this real? It was insane.

It was stuff like that we saw, 

Cinnamon: those stories that everybody's got one, but very rarely are, like, there's always gonna be that unique one where maybe it's at the same level as [00:37:00] another,

Erin: of

Cinnamon: crazy story. But how many people can say that they responded to a call when a guy stopped an assault on his wife simply by forgetting his lunch? And then it, that's what it rolled right? What? And I think that kind of brings to the forefront, like part of the The opportunity that you have when there's not that information at the beginning story is that it eliminates judgment, right? Like you are just there to do what you can to

Tim: What we're trained to do.

Cinnamon: and Yeah.

And so not knowing those details yet, there's no worry that somebody is going to be like, eh, he was a bad guy.

Tim: Oh, no.

Cinnamon: If this guy did this to my wife, like that's not present. And I think [00:38:00] today, a lot of times, especially around addiction and medic response, there, there is that judgment that comes up about, I like to call it Narcan fatigue.

Tim: yeah.

Cinnamon: The about like now we're we're inserting our opinions, our judgments, our own compassion fatigue into that scene. And I think it's a luxury to not know

Tim: I, I think for for first responders man, I've seen such a change, right? When I got in, there was no such thing as wellness. There was no such thing as peer support. There was no such thing as even what you guys do, right? There's no psychiatrist. There was no counselors.

There was no, there was nothing like that. No one ever talked about any of e a p, nothing. There was nothing like that. Available for us, but yet we would see guys go down alcohol, we'd see guys go down, gambling. We'd see guys, go to these [00:39:00] different infidelity. Absolutely.

Big time. And it was, it's so common in the first responder world to, to be divorced at least once, if not twice. And it's just a common, it's a common thing. And I believe we're going back to relationships, but I believe that's it because we're, we just don't know how to be successful in our relationships because there's a statistic, and I don't know if this is true or not, maybe you guys know this or not, but I heard someone say that 80% of, 80% of us as first responders have had some type of trauma under the age of 12. That was either physical abuse or mental abuse or sexual abuse and 80% of us, is that true? Do you guys know if that's true?

Erin: Do we lose him?

Cinnamon: Hang on. Tim, you're frozen, so if saying good stuff, we can't [00:40:00] hear it. Oh, he looks so adamant and so passionate right now in that frozen

Erin: know his internet

Tim: We're frozen. Oh, there you are.

Cinnamon: Oh, there he There he is.

Tim: we got frozen. I don't know what happened.

Erin: your internet cuts in and out every once in a while, but where you, what you were saying was that 80% has had something fr before the age of 12 that

Tim: Is that r

Erin: That's where

Tim: Is that true?

Cinnamon: have the

Tim: really true?

Cinnamon: So here I'm go. I'm gonna give you three statistics. This is my jam. This is

Tim: Oh, you gotta meet my bride though. She wants to. She's gonna want talk to you.

Cinnamon: I could talk about childhood trauma and post-traumatic stress all day. So 61% of adult American [00:41:00] adults have experienced an adverse childhood experience. According to statistical reports, 86% of firefighters have experienced an adverse childhood experience and six, I'm sorry, that is, I think that's 87 and 68%.

So 7% increase from the average American is police. But here's the difference between why police is only 68% and fire is in the eighties, is because fire has less to lose by being honest.

Erin: Yep.

Cinnamon: So we can take it with a grain of salt when we have numbers and statistics around mental health and wellness when it comes to law enforcement, simply because we're gambling their gambling with their with their weapon and their their status as a

Tim: Sure. That makes

Cinnamon: That is[00:42:00] yes. When it comes to the fire service, we're looking at more than a 20% jump. And when I, the very first time I went to a first RC conference there was a gentleman there, and you may know who he is. His name is Mike Jackson and he's a Seattle firefighter and a retired Marine.

He had me at, hello. And he said, and I tell my clients this all the time, like I even said it probably three times yesterday, first responders and those in the criminal index are two branches on the same tree because and I even added on, I'm like, and then the moss of addiction is on both branches.

But the reality is there's a lot of first responders who didn't have a need met and decided they would be that need. They would be the person that was there for someone else. And the criminality. [00:43:00] Trajectory is, I didn't have that person. And screw you

Tim: So is that a is that a subconscious thing that we have, you think? Because I didn't think about that when I was going into being a first responder. Being a firefighter, I didn't have that mindset at 16. I just loved the job. I just loved helping people.

Erin: That's it though too.

Cinnamon: well, and think about that passion, right? What passion have you experienced to that degree prior to that? What experience of a sense of belonging and a sense of being wanted and having purpose, right? As you're running off the res and all of a sudden now you're having this experience where they're giving you cake, giving you, uniforms they're giving you their time

Erin: Val, you're valuable resource well, so you're getting the accolades, you're getting that support, and the way you described this gentleman, he must have seen something in you to be like, this young man needs a mentor, and I'm gonna scoop him up [00:44:00] and give that, because otherwise you could have been on the criminal side that Cinnamon spoken to.

Cinnamon: then you have to wonder what was his journey that he saw a troubled teenage boy who he decided, I'm going to intervene, and unbeknownst to him, changed the tr trajectory of your life. So do I think that it's subconscious, I don't know if that is the exact word, but when you think about our human, your our human need to belong, not to just fit in, but to belong and feel purposeful and to feel embraced and to be wanted when there is childhood abuse, neglect.

All of those things, like we are craving someone to say that they want us,

Tim: It's,

Cinnamon: and

Tim: I, I think interesting because I worked in four different departments, right? And if you count the mortuary, you could say five, [00:45:00] five I guess. But no one ever talked about this stuff,

Erin: No.

Tim: ever. It never was brought up, ever. And I saw guys in my department where I was for 30 years, I was in the city of Kirkland when I got hired with the city of Kirkland. And I was there for 30 years. I got hired when I was 30. And and there I saw guys having issues and problems, but nobody ever talked about it and they didn't talk about it. And all of a sudden it would be like, okay, now this guy's retiring, or this person is, like leaving or, whatever.

And it's just like, why? What, what's going on? This is the best job in the world, why would anybody ever leave it? And never once did I think that I was gonna have any kind of issue or struggle or problem or anything ever. I loved going to work. I loved my job, I loved the people I worked with. I loved work, working for the citizens of Kirkland and being there for 'em on Lake [00:46:00] Washington and, in the city.

It, it was just, it was the best. I absolutely loved it. But.

Erin: But I imagine it was until it wasn't. That rux sack gets o starts overflowing is the

It down there, you can get the zipper zipped up or whatever, the buckle on, but eventually there's no more room in your rux

And all starts spilling out. 

Cinnamon: Spilling like hot lava on

Tim: so I brought I, I'm gonna change change gears here just a second. Cause I want to bring my bride into this picture because I was this firefighter. And I I loved my job and, I dated and I, that, that kind of thing.

And I had plenty of opportunities to, pursue someone if I wanted to. And I just said, no I am not doing this until I get hired as a firefighter, cuz this is what I want to do and I don't want anything to get in my way. And so after I got hired with the department is when I met my bride. And and the, one of the reasons I married her was because I could see that she was strong, [00:47:00] she was dropped dead gorgeous.

Come on you guys. I mean my, so my wife is six two. I'm about six six. I used to be six seven. I've shrunk a little bit. It's jumping off the fire rig with a backpack on. We'll do that to you. But yeah, crunches things down. So when I played some ball in college, I was six eight.

So I really crunched down over time. But my brightest six two and she played volleyball at the University of Oregon. Go Ducks. She's a duck. And and yeah, right there, in u in Eugene. And so she was beautiful, but she was also strong. She was mentally strong. She was not just, I'm not talking physically strong cuz she was, I mean she, but it was mentally she was strong.

And I'm like, that's what I need to have in a wife to, cuz I've seen guys that have been married to women that weren't strong and they had problems. And, all these [00:48:00] different, and so I'm looking I'm one of those guys that I'm looking and I'm like, that looks like a decent relationship.

That one definitely not that one. Maybe, that kind of thing. And so it's maybe I can get this. And I wanted whoever I was gonna marry to look at what I was doing as a firefighter and say, Yes, this is good. I can go along with this. I knew I'd never be rich. I didn't become a firefighter to be rich.

I became a firefighter cause I wanted to help people. And and I loved the job of being able to come to work and you had no idea what you were gonna do. You might be cutting someone out of a car, you might be going to a house fire, you might be doing, whatever. You might be doing a tour for kids that are coming in to someday want to be firefighters.

It is just all the different things. And so I just loved that about the job and you never knew what you were gonna be going on, but I wanted someone that would come along with me and want to be a part of that. And when Lori came into my life it was, that's a whole story in itself, [00:49:00] but when we got together, it was like how do we make this work?

How do we do this? And we got pregnant right away. And our son Drew we're I think I've told you, we're the tall family. Our son Drew he's 28 years old now, and he is six 11 and

Erin: It's crazy.

Cinnamon: I don't even know how

Tim: Yeah. He,

Erin: yeah. That's two feet taller than me. Six 11 be two feet taller than me.

Tim: Yeah. And he's such a great guy. He's single. He's single. So if you have anybody, you have anybody over six foot out there.

Erin: He's the man.

Tim: Yeah.

Cinnamon: We need our tall to go ahead and submit photos

Tim: Yeah, exactly. And that, and you know that was this thing when Lori met me, it was that I was tall and I was a nice guy and I was a firefighter and I had a job and I had a car, and I, all those things, right?

Erin: Here's what's interesting,

Cinnamon: And being a six two female is she probably found you very attractive because not only [00:50:00] are all you, all those other things, but you're also taller than her. And that was the one box that was probably very difficult to

Erin: What I just wanted to say, just rewind a smidge, is something you said was, I wanted a bride who could get behind what I did, get behind the fire service. But what's interesting is as someone who is not part of it, we only get so much. It's yeah. For me it's like I think about the firefighters and the calendar and ooh, the big heroes, but they don't understand what they're actually getting behind.

Just like you guys don't necessarily understand what you're signing up for and getting behind when you come into this, it's like you only know so much. And it's yes, I will date the firefighter with his uniform because it's hot. It's and I can get behind him being a kind loving helper.

But other than that, it's oh shit, there is all this other stuff that I signed up for that I didn't know I signed up for. And just like the first [00:51:00] responder can't be prepared to know what they were getting into. The spouses can't be prepared to know exactly what they're getting into. And so to have that strong woman by your side that's like, all right, I didn't know.

And now I know, and he we're gonna do it. Versus a spouse that's like this is not what I signed up for and I'm outta here. I'm not going to adapt with you. I'm not going to be by your side, quote unquote, death due west part, no matter what in sickness and in health, because this isn't what I thought.

I just thought I was getting a calendar, boy, and I'm getting all this, I'm getting the ruck sack too,

Tim: Yep, exactly.

Cinnamon: And don't you think the thing that I find interesting, especially now when you're seeing a lot of the auxiliaries just not exist anymore, is that kind of like how you were talking, Tim at the beginning about this plan, right? You've got these mentors, you've got people to call you've got people who are responsible [00:52:00] for training you on how to be a firefighter, and we do not have necessarily people training these spouses on how to be a first responder spouse. And they are depending on you to tell them what to do, and you don't have any idea, and you at least have somebody who can tell you how to be a firefighter, but she's not going to firefighter wife school every day. She's not, there's no station for her. So she's sitting a lot of times in isolation.

And maybe it was more active back then with the auxiliary, but it's like she's probably even more at a loss than you are when it comes to what do I tolerate? What is acceptable? It's his day off and he is doing this and he is not been here for 24 hours like I am. Maybe getting aggravated, but what is appropriate to get aggravated about what's appropriate?

To accept what is reasonable? There's no measuring

Tim: It's so funny that you mentioned [00:53:00] that because my bride and I were talking about ju this just the other day. We looked at this program with stronger families. That was just we were like, where was this 30 years ago? Where was this when we first got married? Because we struggled.

We really struggled because that newness, right? That newness wears off. And now I'm coming home and, Lori says to me, Hey, how was your shift? What do we say?

Erin: Yeah.

Tim: fine. It was good, and I didn't tell her about, the baby call or the fire that somebody got hurt in, or the car that we had to cut someone out, or, someone that, drowned or, whatever.

I didn't, we didn't, I didn't go into those stories with her.

Why? Why don't I do that? Because I want to protect her.

Erin: Yeah.

Tim: my family. I want to protect her. And then we have kids. I don't want to tell these [00:54:00] stories with kids, but now that I have kids, it's wait a minute. I've been on so many kid calls.

My kid is never ever gonna be in a bathtub alone, ever. Period will not happen. And when, and it comes across that way too, it's like you're, now, I'm telling my child's mom lecturing her on, you will never leave your kid in the tub for a second. And she's wait a minute, who are you to tell me to be a mom?

It just, it goes into this thing, and and it's because of the calls we've been on and the things that we've seen that it's no, that, that's not gonna happen. We're, no you're not gonna run with scissors. You're

Cinnamon: So you're de you're developing this rigidness out of experience, but nobody's getting to know what that

is. So it just sounds like you're an overbearing dad who leaves for 24 hours and still wants the boss of

Erin: the environment. 

Tim: [00:55:00] Yep. You're not get you're 16 years old or you're 15 years old and you are not getting into that car. I don't care.

Cinnamon: that. I say that all the time. I'm like, God bless the 16 year old daughter. Of a first responder because she ain't getting in a car, she's not driving,

Everybody's gonna be renting a limo prom because no, prom night horrible. It, it doesn't happen to every kid, but it's gonna happen kid.

You're not gonna let it your kid. All of those things that end up being family, interpersonal battles oh honey, just, she's a good kid. She's safe, she makes good, you're like, 

Erin: decisions.

Cinnamon: Because it's not about all the decisions that makes, and it's that gap of I don't have a point of reference of why you are so and so rigid, and now to the point of

Insisting that this is how we parent.

But I don't know what you've seen. And even if you said this is a really bad night car accidents, that still doesn't [00:56:00] convey, and I like to say, most people p play the odds. First responders play the

Tim: Yes.

Cinnamon: So is it likely? No. But let me just tell you, when it does happen, on that odd chance you are gonna regret letting her get that car, you're gonna regret going and answering that phone and leaving that baby in that bathtub like you already have these images and because that's what you do all the time, it's

Right?

Like we might hear about a teenager over the course of our lives who gets into a car accident and tragic, but you are the one who responds to every single one

Tim: Or a date rape.

I, it's when you go on that call, You just wanna grab that kid and just hug him and just tell him I, it it's the worst, it's the worst call. It's horrible. The fear that they have in their face and on their, their being and the energy that they're just,[00:57:00] it's horrifying.

It's horrifying. And I knew where my daughter was freaking all the ti you know, on the phone, the whole deal. It was just, it was like, oh man it can drive you nuts.

Cinnamon: So how you find, and I say how you find, because I'm cautious to say, how do you find, cuz that's posing the question, and I don't know if anybody has the answer, but how do you find that balance between not exposing your children in particular, family in general to, I had somebody tell me it's bad enough that know what I saw.

I don't need anybody else to saw, but, and for, to protect them from what is actually out there. While also making it clear to them that without this information, I still need you to trust That I'm protecting you and not just being like an overbearing, controlling buzzkill

Tim: I think the only way,

Cinnamon: I don't want you to

Tim: I think the only [00:58:00] way you can do it as a first responder is you have to listen.

When your kids are talking to you, you have to listen. And then they have an opportunity to listen to you and say, look, son, the reason I'm saying this is because I've seen this. I wouldn't want this ever to happen to you, and I don't think it ever will. But, I was trained in the Think Plan Act.

You think about it, you plan for it, and then you act on it. And I want you to just have a mindset of that. And both my kids, I have two adults. My, my son is 28 years old and my daughter is 26 now. And she just got married just a couple weeks ago. And yeah. Yeah. And Ryan is our son-in-law and we love him.

He's just such a great guy. He's been so good to our daughter. We just they came and lived with us during the pandemic. And I'm like, yes, you, she's Hey, can my boy Brandon come? And I'm like, yes, you come live with [00:59:00] us. Cause I want to check this guy out,

Erin: God's gonna make or break

Tim: Exactly.

Erin: being in then you're in. Yeah.

Tim: Yep. And 

Cinnamon: Okay. But now the question is how tall is your daughter and how

Tim: so Grace, grace is the she's the short one in the family. She's six foot tall. Yeah. Yeah. She's the runt. And and we, and we always had a joke. We always had a joke in our family that maybe it wasn't really a joke, but Yeah, it's a joke. A joke is that,

Cinnamon: We were

Tim: It's serious, but you can't bring someone home under six foot tall for both our kids.

Cinnamon: It's gonna mess

Tim: Exactly. Thank you. That, and that's what really counts. That's what my bride would say. It, it's, but and Ryan is right at six. He's right there. But what we tell people is we just love him. He is so good to our daughter. I just, my prayer has always been for my kids that they would find someone that loves them more than I love [01:00:00] their mom.

Erin: Which clearly a lot.

Tim: yeah.

Cinnamon: I was gonna say that is a hard

Tim: And and yeah, the, my son-in-law is just, he's a wonderful guy and he treats our daughter just he treats her like a princess. And he's so good to her and I love being around them and seeing the love that they have for each other. And and Lori and I are able to share the tools that we're learning, with stronger families and different things like that to to pass on to our kids and stuff.

So

Erin: Which is awesome because I was thinking like, Because you have gone through your fair share of clearly traumatic circumstances and come out on the other side and become one, went through some kind of treatment process, which I'm sure you'll tell us about, but also become an advocate and you're able to explain now to your adult children okay, does this make sense now?

And so it gives [01:01:00] them also the upper hand when their children come along to be open and forthright they learned what it was like to perhaps not get both sides of the story as children. Which just that communication between parents and children is so important. Being able to at times be peers, if you will, to explain, Hey, the reason I'm acting like this is because of this, because we have to show our kids that we're human beings too.

Otherwise how do they learn how to adapt and handle emotions and handle hard things? Yeah.

Tim: And it wasn't easy on my kids being a first responder daughter or son. And they would be more than, my son is Hey, I'm, I'll tell that story, I'll tell that story. But br, and I struggled with our marriage after a while and it got pretty bad.

And we did go to counseling. I had a good captain at the time that he said, Hey I, if you really love her and you really want to keep this going, [01:02:00] you probably should go get some counseling. And so we went to the counselor and, the counselor gave us some books and we did some things.

And then my wife is a real study, right? She goes out and she finds information and she reads more books and all that kind of stuff, and. So she would read these books and because of my dyslexia, she would write things out for me and I would be able to look at 'em at work. And so I'd take 'em to work and, these little notebooks that she would make for me.

And cliff notes, if you will, and guys are at work like, Hey what are you doing? What do you, and I'm like, oh, I'm just, reading a, reading a book. And they're like, that's not a book. What are you doing? Let me see that. And then they'd take it and look at it and they're like, what is what?

And wait a minute. And then they start asking questions. And so then it's Hey, do you have any more of these? And, hey, can I make a copy of this? And, hey, can I show this to my wife at home? And it just I wasn't the kind of the relationship guy, and every once in a while guys would be in [01:03:00] relationship issues and somehow they'd be on my crew for a while.

The bcs would say, Hey, we're gonna bring so-and-so over and be in your crew for, two or three shifts. And okay. So I'd get together and talk to 'em and just talk about relationship stuff. And and, it was all finding good. I had some things though.

We talk about trauma, right? And I think a lot of times I don't know about your listeners, but a lot of times people think of trauma. They think of, blood and guts and, just the nasty calls and stuff like, but there's other things that happen to us, first responders that happen, what I call administrative stress.

And what I mean by that is you might have An officer that is just not communicating well with you. Like they don't know how to or something. Or maybe they don't like you, or maybe there's a process that you go through and you're not able to

Cinnamon: I am so sorry, Tim. She is usually better [01:04:00] behaved.

Tim: I thought I thought maybe we were gonna do a yoga session. I'm like, yeah, let's do it. I just did it with Adrian this morning. I love it.

Erin: no, I brought over my comfy chair, but it doesn't have wheels and it's really hard to move cuz it's heavy. I sent you guys a chat. I have to pause and run to the restroom. Do not stop talking cuz this is gold. But I've also drank too much coffee, so keep

Tim: Okay.

Cinnamon: so you're gonna

Tim: Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. So I see, where was I? I was, what was I talking about?

Cinnamon: bringing

Tim: Oh yeah.

Cinnamon: to Oh, or you said, and sometimes a captain doesn't

It's like the administrative

Tim: Administrative stress is a real thing. And the other thing about administrative stress is for me is my union, who I absolutely love, the International Association of Firefighters, the I F we were local, 25 45 is my local. And

Cinnamon: Assessment center.[01:05:00] 

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.[01:06:00] 

Yeah.

Yeah.[01:07:00] [01:08:00] 

Erin: Yeah.

Cinnamon: Come. [01:09:00] She had wrestled you right to the ground and went right over your body. Yep.[01:10:00] 

Erin: So I yeah.

Cinnamon: Lost purpose.

Erin: Yeah. Up.[01:11:00] 

Okay, 

Cinnamon: we don't want a timeshare 

Erin: Is it legit? Yeah. 

Cinnamon: Too tall. They'd have to dig the trenches. They'd have to dig several more inches to be able to fit you in it. And it was inconvenient. Yes. 

Erin: But.[01:12:00] 

Cinnamon: Okay. Okay. So you so Lori goes on to, no, you were talking to two A D H d grown ass adults, and we cannot keep a single ever. So we're spirit animals here. So you were talking about how Lori started doing all this research and to stronger families and what they were doing for military families at the time. And sign something?

Not yet. [01:13:00] You don't want.

Erin: And in the midst of it, you're also struggling with all of this darkness going on in the back of your mind. I don't have the rank and you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what I can, yeah.

Cinnamon: And you already are thinking it's time to go. So the idea of committing to something probably felt very like a facade, like a, what's the word I'm looking for? Not like fake,

Erin: Imposter.

Cinnamon: but yeah. [01:14:00] Fake an imposter, right? Oh, I'm going to go out and do all these healthy family things while I'm getting ready to leave mine.

Tim Sears:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so I talked to my bride about it and she said, you know, maybe you should, you know, really think about this. And we had another interview and it was with the team. And they said, hey, we'd we'd really like to offer you the job. And I'm like, thank you. But no, thank you. And they said, well, would you tell us why? And I said, honestly, you want the honest truth? And they said, yeah. And I go. Because and I started crying. I said because I am physically hurting my body hurts My my spiritual Body is broken. My mental body is broken and you don't want to take this on And they were speechless. They didn't say a word. They just were speechless. And I got up and I walked out. And I came home and I talked to my bride and they said, and she said, well, what, how did it go? And I said, I told him, I said, you don't want me. And this is why you don't want me. And and, you know, she cried. And I mean, it's just this whole thing, right? Well, of course, they called back

Erin:
They're like challenge accepted

Cinnamon:
I'm just...

Erin:
we come.

Tim Sears:
We are not. We are not letting you go. You are going to do this. And you know, so then my bride and I said, okay, let's try it for a year. We'll try it for a year and see what happens. And I had no idea what I was doing. And so I meet with Noel and he's like, hey, what do you think? What do you think we should do? How do we get this out there? And I had heard of Sean Thomas in First Responder conferences. And I said, Hey, there's this organization. And so we talked about it. And so we called Sean and said, Hey, Sean, this is what Stronger Families is. And I'm new to the show, but this is what it's about. And do you think this would fit? And she's like, Oh, my gosh, this is amazing. Family stuff? Yes. Come

Erin:
Yeah.

Tim Sears:
on. And so I again, I didn't know anything. I'm just a knucklehead. And and Noel is the one that wrote this material. He and his wife, Carissa. wrote this material, the Oxygen Curriculum. And so he's on the stage presenting this information. And I'm like standing there, you know, throwing in a few words here and there as a first responder. And, but I'm going to these conferences, I'm going to these first responder health and wellness conferences that Sean does. And I'm blown away because people are telling stories about their PTS and they're talking about stress and they're talking about you know all these different things and next thing I know I'm freaking crying at the table. I'm sitting at the stronger family table representing stronger families and I'm crying and I'm like what is wrong with me? What is going on? And it took about three of these conferences that I went to with her and I'm like I came home to Lori and I said I think I have PTSD. I don't really understand it. I don't know. You know, I go but everything they're talking about I am going through I'm feeling and so of course what does she do? Boom, right to the internet.

Erin:
and Google it up

Tim Sears:
Yeah

Tim Sears:
absolutely. Facebook,

Cinnamon:
Search it up

Tim Sears:
Instagram, you know, everything, right? She's into everything and she's reading this stuff. She's like, yes, yes, this you, this is you, this is you, this is you, you know, and so we're trying to, you know, trying to deal with this stuff. And I still in denial. I'm like, no, I don't have that. Other guys have that. I don't have that.

Erin:
Mm-hmm.

Tim Sears:
And, and so then it came down to a fight. Her and I got in a fight one day. And, um, usually when we get in an argument, it was, she would walk away or I'd walk away and we'd cool off and come back and reconnect and, and everything would be okay, but this time I could not let her walk away. And she walked all the way out to the barn and I followed her all the way out to the barn and she's crying and you know, she's you know, yelling and slamming barn doors and all kinds of stuff like that. And I wouldn't walk away from her and she's like, why can't you give me space? And one of the things she said was she says, I'm done. I'm done with this. I'm done. And she kept using the word I'm done. And it just kept hitting me in the head over and over. Done. Done. Okay, I'm done. This is it. I'm done. And she looked at me and she goes, what? And I go, I'm done. She says, what do you mean by that? And so then I told her, I said, I'm, I'm ready to, I'm ready to check out.

Erin:
Mm.

Tim Sears:
And she's like, what? And so then we started talking, right? And that brought her down, brought me down. She goes, we're going to the doctor.

Erin:
Good.

Tim Sears:
So she took me to the doctor. The doctor happened to be a veteran

Cinnamon:
Hmm.

Tim Sears:
who hears my story. Cause what do you do when you walk into the doctor's office, right? It's a walk-in clinic. Why are you here? Oh, I'm thinking of shooting myself in the head. It's like, I met with in, I don't know what to do. I need some help. And they're like, okay, so I go to talk to this doctor. And I start telling my story to this doctor and he starts crying and I start crying and we cried together and he goes, he goes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, emotional with you here. He goes, you don't need that. I'm like, no, he goes, I have PTSD. He goes, you have PTSD, Tim. He goes, you've been in this situation your whole entire life and you don't know it. And she, and he said, this is what you have. You can get through this. I can help you. I can you know, we started with some medicine and you know All that kind of stuff. He goes the first thing we got to do is we're going to help you get some sleep He goes you're not sleeping four or five nights six nights out of the week, you know Or you're getting maybe two hours of sleep. He goes that's not healthy. He goes you're you're dying He goes you don't know it but you're dying And he goes we need to help you and so he gave some medications and we that that kind of got the ball The gulp the ball going Meanwhile, I'm learning more about Stronger Families as I'm trying to work for them. And a buddy of mine that I was working with in Stronger Families came to me and says, Hey dude, you need to go to this place called Dear Hollow. Or excuse me, you need to go to this place called Mighty Oaks. And I said, What? And he's like, Yeah, it's Mighty Oaks. It's a week long thing. You go to it. It's for first responders. It's free. Um, all this kind of stuff. And so I contacted them and I went, uh, it's a, um, I don't know if you've heard of, of, uh, of mighty Oaks, but it's, it's

Erin:
I was just going to ask

Cinnamon:
Is it like save a warrior

Tim Sears:
it's, it's like save a warrior, it's a Christian organization, um, and it's all about basically learning about the Bible and they have what's called the four B's and it's, uh, to be in the word. uh, be in prayer, uh, be in fellowship with other guys that are, you know, going through what you're going through. Uh, and then also be in a healthy church and, um, they call them the four B's. And it's a nonprofit organization and it's a week long thing. And there was guys there and that's where I really learned about this, uh, abuse prior to the age of 12. Um, because they kind of talked about it a little bit. And then as these guys are telling their stories, there's like 40 of us there. And I'm kidding you not, there must've been 30 of them that said they were sexually abused as kids.

Erin:
Yeah.

Tim Sears:
And I, I was blown, blown away. And these, these are, these are guys that were veterans, right? These were guys that were active military. These guys were firefighters. These guys were police officers. And it was just like. It blew my mind. It just blew my mind. And it was a week long thing. They fed you amazing food. I mean, it was absolutely amazing. And just a great organization. And I felt good, right? I felt good. I've had a relationship with the Lord ever since I was a little kid. But it really helped me spiritually get things kind of lined up again. And I highly, highly, highly recommend it. Um, I have a good buddy of mine that, uh, works there. You know, they, they get guys to go in there and, and be kind of the leaders, if you will, and, uh, he's one of the leaders now. And, uh, he's the one that told me to, Hey, Tim, you need to check this out. So I went and did it. I came home, I felt really good and I felt like, yeah, okay. I'm, I'm better. I'm, I'm ready to go. But after about a month. And I did, I did the four B's man. I was doing everything, but after about a month, I could feel myself slipping back into that dark hole again. And it, it scared the living Bajeebies out of me, man. I

Erin:
Mm-hmm.

Tim Sears:
was like, no, I went there before. I don't want to go there again. Something's not right. And there was this guy named Matt quack and Bush. I don't know if you guys have heard of him yet, but

Erin:
Not yet.

Tim Sears:
he is, he's, he's kind of like you guys and, and he has a podcast as well. And, um, He was at 1st RC

Cinnamon:
I just want to say his last name over and over 

Tim Sears:
Yeah, Quackenbush, Matt Quackenbush. He's actually getting his doctorate degree right now in PTSD for first responders. I mean, he really, really wants to help first responders. He's really, really just the coolest dude. You'd love him. You guys would love him. He was speaking at one of the 1RCs and I've learned so much going to these 1RCs, you guys. I love going to him. I learned so much. And I've been able to go with Sean for about two years in her team. It's just been amazing. But Matt was one of the guys that I got to listen to. And he spoke in a way that I just connected with this guy. And even though he's not a first responder, I connected with him. It was like, he understood me. And I came home and I told Lori, I said, I don't know who this guy is, but I need to listen to him more. I need to talk, you know, and it was kind of a, you know, it was kind of a weird thing. But I just had this connection. Well, then I went to another one. I went to another one, R.C. and he was there again. And I went and talked to him. I finally got, I went and talked to him. I said, look, you don't know who I am. I go, I'm one of the presenters, but I need to talk to you. And we started talking. And I kind of gave him my story a little bit. And he's like, Tim, you need to go to deer hollow. You need to go to Utah. You need to go for 45 days and you need to go through this, this treatment. And, and I said, I can't, I work for stronger families. And you know, he's like, just, you got to do this. So I went and I talked to Noel. I told him what was going on. I explained to him more about what's going on up here in my brain. and where I'm at and what things have happened transpired. I told him about the thing with Lori and I and all that. And he's like, dude, what do you need? Let's let's figure it out. Let's let's do this. And I and I said, let me go back and talk to Matt again. So I went and talked to Matt and he's like, OK, if you can't do the 45 day treatment, he goes, can you do an intensive outpatient treatment? It's called IOP, intensive outpatient treatment. And I said. What is that? And he goes, well, we get on zoom, we meet three times a week. We meet for three hours. We talk about PTS and how to deal with that stress and how to navigate, how to understand it, how to understand that you're not going crazy and that this is normal. You're, you're reacting normal to abnormal circumstances.

Erin:
Mm-hmm.

Tim Sears:
And how, and what are the tools to help you get through this? And I'm like, Yeah. He goes, it's a three hour deal each session, three times a week. And it's six weeks long. Can you commit to that? And I said, and it's for first responders. And I said, yeah, I'm in. So yeah.

Cinnamon:
Can I, I just want to interject because I think this is so important because we know that the hierarchy of those who listen to us is varied. So I want to ask you, what did it mean to you to have Noel say, well, do whatever we need to for you to be able to take care of yourself and be healthy?

Tim Sears:
I think...(Followed by very long pause.)

Cinnamon:
We know that there's a lot of, you call it administrative stress, and I usually refer to it as politics. And one of those things that we see experienced in leadership is the fear of abuse and being duped. And so what that oftentimes results in is leadership not taking good care of their people, and they're so consumed. with people not abusing time, that it leaves a very poor experience for those who really need it and get that same guarded reaction. And so I'm glad I asked because clearly it's meant something to you. But I think that because we are so, especially right, our leadership are also first responders and you guys are trained to identify the threat. And so you are always looking for that person that is trying to get one over on the system. And so I wanted to hone in on this opportunity for them to be able to hear from somebody who their response they got from, uh, someone in leadership was, I see you, I hear you, I want you to be well, and we will do whatever it takes to allow you to do what you need to do to be well.

Tim Sears:
Yeah, um. It is such a, um. This has been such a journey. This has been such a journey and I'm still on it, right? I'm still, I tell people I'm still on this journey.