Breaking the Silence: With Ricardo Martinez II

EP68: Call Me Maybe?

RIcardo: [00:00:00] Uh,

Erin: That's 

Cinnamon: one of the things that we learned this past weekend while we were spending time in New York and New Jersey was that they have actually put slang into their metro system. So when you go to buy a pass for the subway, it says, please dip your card. It doesn't say insert, it says dip,

RIcardo: oh.

Cinnamon: and when we like started asking around, everybody was like, I didn't know it did that.

Like, it's so benign to them that they don't even notice, and they're like, that's not really a word that we use very often. So, like, that's not necessarily a phrase we use, so I don't know where that came from, but now I'm like, very curious

RIcardo: when I dip you dip we dip so it's

Cinnamon: You can't help but come up with a song

RIcardo: 1999 from the yeah the dip

Cinnamon: Absolutely. 

Erin: that isn't one of the songs we thought of. 

RIcardo: yeah, 

Cinnamon: Yeah. It was more it, dip it, slap it, flip it. Nevermind.You know where that's going.

RIcardo: bop it

Cinnamon: [00:01:00] The bop it game.

RIcardo: Yeah, that's what thought you were going at

Cinnamon: No, don't you remember? is it TLC? That's smack it, flip it, rub it down. Oh no!

RIcardo: Oh,

Erin: no, it was like Belbiv Devoe or

Cinnamon: Bell biv to bow.

Erin: Anyway, this is, this

RIcardo: east coast family

Erin: We go on rampages before we even introduce anybody and, 

RIcardo: I'm all about

Cinnamon: we're like, Oh, by the way, we have a guest. That's that third voice you hear.

Erin: We're just hanging out, everybody. But yeah, Ricardo Martinez II is here with us today. If you don't know who he is, then you must be sleeping under a rock. But,one of the things that is so important is that you are a movement. Like, everything that you are doing is a movement. Obviously, you have your podcast going on, which has been going on for how many years now?

RIcardo: over 10 years now. Yeah.

Erin: Ten years. So, Within the Trenches podcast has been going live for ten years and it is true stories [00:02:00] from 911 dispatchers who have lived these stories and either survived or I'm assuming they are out there being advocates themselves as well. Is that accurate to say?

RIcardo: There's a lot more people now that are sharing their stories where in the beginning it was taboo, you know, it was that fear. And I was one of those dispatchers myself where I buried these calls and there was that fear that that stigma that if you're sharing your stories, if you're asking for help in any way, you are weak.

And I didn't ever want anyone to think Cardo can hack it, but it got to a point where I just didn't care anymore what people thought. And for me, it was therapeutic to share those stories. Thanks.

Erin: Ugh.

Cinnamon: happened first that you started to not care or you realized how therapeutic it was?

RIcardo: So I had to learn the hard way. I went through all these years and dispatch and. it was a struggle with all of these hard calls, right? Because nobody was talking about it and like everyone else, you know, we would always [00:03:00] say, I don't take that home with me. I'm able to put it on the shelf, you know, but,we all know.

and I'm not sure if this is allowed on the show, but I'm sure you can edit out later, but to swear. So I would say no, this is okay, cool. it's bullshit. Like we all know that's bullshit that you leave it at work, but when you get home, you're distant. And especially with dispatch, when you're trying to quickly get to the point, someone who is not in public safety, you know, family's friend or whatever, they start telling you a story and you're just looking at them like, okay, get to the point, but those were the things I had to go through.

And, you know, a lot of times we don't like to look at ourselves in the mirror and think, Maybe I'm the problem. Maybe, maybe I'm the one with the issue and I need to confront myself first, right, to grow and learn. And that was a lot of what I had to do. And then I stopped caring about what people thought because I knew something needed to give.

And, for me, it started out with just sharing my stories. I was writing them all down in a [00:04:00] blog. That's how within the trenches started actually was as a blog. It was a school project that I did in college.

Erin: Really? 

RIcardo: Yes, 

Cinnamon: So you were getting your, bachelor's degree as you were actively working 9 1 1.

RIcardo: so I will say this right off the bat, because I always say this when I'm sharing my story, this, what I'm about to say is not a flex, so please, nobody take this as a flex, because really, if you think about it, what I'm about to tell you, it was really me Burying myself into work, 

Cinnamon: Busyness. 

RIcardo: yes, trying to keep my mind off of certain things while still working on myself and other things.

So the flex part is I ended up getting three different degrees while I was in dispatch. I got an associates in web development, a bachelor's in graphic design, and then a master's in new media journalism, all with heavy, you know, marketing and storytelling. What I thought in the beginning was, the profession killing me actually ended up saving me because every main project that I [00:05:00] was doing had to do with 911 dispatch.

Because people were always asking, you know, what do you do for a living? I would go get my hair cut and people would ask and I knew what question was going to come up and it was, what's the worst call you've taken? And in the beginning, it was annoying, right? Because I thought, why do they want me to relive this?

But then I realized people aren't trying to get me to relive this. Humans are just generally curious. They want to know what this is all about. It's fascinating, right? So why not switch that mindset to public education? And that's what I started doing, was educating the public but also the other field responders that were out there so that everyone could learn. And with everything I was doing, it was therapeutic for me.

Cinnamon: Isn't that interesting that the initial thought is, why are people so gruesome and self centered that they're willing to ask me to drag myself through the mud to appease their morbid curiosity? [00:06:00] As somebody who had no experience with the first responder world prior to starting the, the work that led us to here, I didn't know there was a problem.

So to ask. It would have just been like, I'm asking you, you know, which seat do you sit in, in the Dispatch Comp Center?

Not having any idea that asking you to relive that was actually even asking you to relive that. It was more of like,

RIcardo: asking us to

Cinnamon: what is the, the thing? Not attached to anything else other than, oh, yeah, I sit left of center, in the third row. So part of this education is that you're actually letting the public know, when you are asking this, be aware that you're asking us to relive a pretty severe trauma. Now, some of us may do what I did, Ricardo, And I've flipped it and other people may not be there [00:07:00] yet. And that's not a great question to ask.

RIcardo: Yeah, no, it's it's true. And, so what there was one time I will say there was one time that someone asked and I did tell them not in complete detail, but I told them one of my worst calls and they're just kind of staring at me as they're cutting my hair. And I thought, you know what? I am never going to do that again because they are feeling what I'm feeling now.

And I don't want that. I don't want them to feel. Transcribed This harshness of whatever call it was that I told them. Plus, I don't want them to cut my ear off because they're cutting my hair at the, at the moment. So,

Cinnamon: Yeah. It's like, they can't handle the truth.

RIcardo: right. Yeah, 

Cinnamon: You need me on that phone.

RIcardo: So what I ended up doing afterwards, when someone would ask me that I would basically say something to the effect of, you know, what I've taken calls that you could not even dream of.

They're mostly in nightmares that you would think I don't want to put you through that, but I'll give you a crazy, like funny, outrageous call. And they were all about that. That was more [00:08:00] so what they wanted versus something brutally, you know, nuts that you would think that is only in a horror movie.

Erin: And that is the catch is people are entertained by that horror and that shock value because of TV, but it's a whole different flavor when they realize, oh wait, that really happened in real life,gives a totally different meaning to what's the worst thing. Because like you said, you can't even begin to imagine, like, people can't put their brains there to imagine what it could be like.

Cinnamon: I'm still learning new things the human body can do and other humans can do to other humans. Like it's a infinite list. 

RIcardo: Yeah,there's a meme that I saw a while back and it always brings me back to like 9 1 1 and the stuff that I've listened to and pieced together in my own brain, and I'm probably not going to do it justice. I'm going to destroy it, but basically what it was was it said something to the effect of, in Scooby Doo, we found out [00:09:00] that, that monsters were real because when they took the masks off, they were all human.

And I was like oh snaps like you don't really think about that when you're a kid watching the cartoon But as an adult you realize yeah monsters are real, but they're all human. Like how crazy is that?

Erin: What? I mean, that never even, I'm 43 years old and you saying that, I'm like, mind blown. Like I never even thought of that. Okay.

RIcardo: yeah

Erin: Wow. Well, let me ask you this. So I know that in 2016 you started the I am 911 movement. now was that all kind of on the heels of I want to educate or was that more for the dispatcher themselves?

So was that more for the public or more for the dispatchers or, or both?

RIcardo: So when I started that, that was August 24th, 2016. I had left dispatch to go work on the private side and, I was still doing the podcast, the private nine on one company that I was working for, Indiana. found me through the podcast and I became their communications director.

[00:10:00] So with everything that I had, background wise, tech wise and everything, they brought me on. And, we fast forward to 2016 and these two main, 911 organizations are fighting for the reclassification of 911 dispatchers because a lot of people don't know this, but the office of management and budget, you know, and the government, they have these different classifications for every work type.

9 1 1 dispatchers are actually in the clerical class. So they're in there with commercial dispatchers, like trucking, you know, taxi, you know, all of that, well as clerical workers. So 9 1 1 dispatchers are seen as a clerical position. And then there's the protective class that's police, fire, EMS, lifeguards, even waste management, I believe is in there too.

And so they were fighting for this reclassification. One of the things that they were looking for were stories. And I thought I've been sharing stories since 2010. When I first started all of this from the college project I was doing, why not try to help [00:11:00] out? So. I created a meme that just had a glimpse of one of my stories and it said, I heard your last breath the night you flipped your four wheeler hashtag.

I am 911. And I asked other dispatchers to do the same thing so that we could raise awareness for this reclassification and it exploded like all over the world. Dispatchers were sharing their stories, in the UK, they were sharing as I am nine, nine, nine in Australia, they were sharing as I am zero, zero, zero, and it was like the entire thin gold line had united for this one cause to show or to prove the difference between commercial dispatchers, clerical workers, and us, the nine one professionals of the world.

And the reason I did it the way I did it is because. And a lot of people too would ask, where's the rest of the story? And I would say, well, also as 911 professionals, we don't. Ever get closure. I mean, every so often we get that gift of closure, but I, that's how real I wanted these stories [00:12:00] to be. Just simply a glimpse into one of those calls.

We don't get closure. You're not going to get closure either. You're really going to experience what it's like for us. But also I put it out there as I was the one who took this, or I was, you know, that that whole piece, not just owning that specific call, but for me, it was It's another form of communication.

I'm not going to meet those people probably ever. However, if they were ever to read it or someone were to read it, that was in a similar situation, they would know that they were not alone. And it went quickly from this whole awareness for reclassification to peer support. Like that fast.

Dispatchers were writing in saying, I used to feel alone. I thought it was the only one who was dealing with stuff like this. And now I know that I'm not alone. Thank you. Another person saying that their hands were still shaking after typing out the story because they had had it buried for so long, but now they had an outlet.

Erin: Oh [00:13:00] gosh. I know I'm like so touched because you are in the thick of the dispatcher world and that is a voice that we have really seen the value in putting in front of people. But we have had dispatchers that maybe aren't aware.

of your cause and what you're doing in your movement that will say, with tears in their eyes and pain in their soul, Dispatchers are the forgotten first responder. We're over here, floundering. so did the classification get changed then for you guys? Like on paper? Or 

RIcardo: Uh, 

no, it didn't, it ended up falling through actually. So what, so yeah, yeah, exactly. So what they were also looking for, they were looking for hard data and policies and all this other stuff, you know, different descriptions, because I guess basically a lot of the descriptions that the government has for now and professionals is considered clerical.

So, I mean, these little things that turned out to be big things, that's what they wanted. And it ended up not going through. So they're starting to ramp it up [00:14:00] again. The other thing too, is that, Congresswoman Norma Torres, her and representative Fitzpatrick, they put out some legislation called the 911 saves act and, Congresswoman Torres, she was actually a dispatcher for about 17 or 18 years with LAPD.

So they put this legislation out and it hasn't passed. we're trying to get it to pass and everything, but there are a lot more folks who are basically taking the helm for this. Now, my piece has become peer support because about six months after I launched, I created a, peer support session.

That I've been doing for over seven years now called imagine listening. Your worst day is our every day. the reason I gave the title imagine listening is because this session is two different episodes that I have on the podcast where dispatchers get a chance to share their own I am 911 stories out loud or they write it down and then I record those stories and I put them out there.

And I want people to do just that, [00:15:00] imagine listening. To something like this, and I've been doing it for over seven years now. I just did a few of them last week, and I can't explain to either one of you what it is like to be in that room of just standing room only people sharing stories, crying, holding each other because they've been holding those in so long.

And it's not just the hard calls. It's also the saves that they talk about. But it's only for the first 30 minutes.And in the last 30 minutes has opened mic and that's where we share all the funny shit that happens in nine one one.

 So we start out emotionally intense, but then we end with laughter because I'm a firm believer that laughter is good medicine.

Erin: It absolutely is good medicine. Well, we can give you clinical, data. If you want some clinical data on how you guys are 100 percent in the same tier as every other first responders, a firefighter, a police officer like

you, that's accurate. 

Cinnamon: Well, and I think about like, if I hear you say, yeah, I listened to [00:16:00] you take your last breath when you wrecked on your four wheeler, there's two levels of cognition happening or at least available. Right. It's like, I'm just taking that and I'm like, oh, he listened, like it's factual.

And then there's that sink into your chair a little bit and be like, okay, now If I listened to a young male teenager, terrified out of his mind, who thinks he is invincible and all of a sudden has this moment in his life where he's He is learning that hard lesson and all he wants is his mom and I am sharing space with him as I hear him whimpering and as I hear him praying, as I hear him begging for his mom to show up, and then it just goes silent and I know what's happened. That is my every day. That's different, right? So it, it's as much as you have this effort moving forward and and what you've [00:17:00] already done It's also up to the listener who's hearing that to be willing to truly engage with that. Because I think that is the idea that these people are crying because they've been finally able to release this.

It's like, what would that have been like to be having everybody's worst day ever stories trapped inside their skin and not be able to do anything with it? I mean, how do you not all go just mad? Right? Like there's a, Erin and I did some research on something and we found out that there was a former Ohio lunatic hospital.

We're like, how can you carry these stories around and not lose your shit?

Erin: Mm 

RIcardo: And, you know, what we've been doing in these sessions. along with that story is you're opening up, kind of your mind and thinking about that as well. when I launched this a [00:18:00] few days after, everything was out there.

We'll talk about triggers. I was watching a show during that time. I was binge watching it. Stranger Things had just come out in 2016 and, spoiler alert for anybody who's not watched it. I'll just say there's an episode where the sheriff finds this main kid who's been missing throughout basically the whole season, that whole first season.

And when he and his mom find this kid, he's laying on his back and he's unconscious, not breathing. Okay. And the sheriff is over him giving CPR and he says to him something to the effect of come on, come on, buddy, come on. And I started weeping like sobbing and I thought, you know, I've heard tons of craziness.

I don't know why I'm doing this right now. And then the episode ended and I was still sitting there trying to figure out what the hell my deal was. And then I realized. It was a trigger because that night that I took that phone call, I did not want to hang [00:19:00] up because I heard the officer get there before EMS and I hear him over the radio say he's on scene and running out there and I can hear him running and I hear him when he comes up to the family and he takes over and I didn't want to hang up because I just wanted to hear that that kid was going to be okay.

Ultimately, the kid did not make it. But what I hear the officer saying over the phone as I'm listening, as it's right next to him is come on, buddy, come on.

Erin: hmm.

RIcardo: I was watching it play out. It was no longer me piecing it together in my brain, because that's what happens with these phone calls. We don't see it.

Technology is different now where some 911, but otherwise for the places that aren't using it, we are pretty much. Picturing everything that we're hearing, putting it together in our heads, like, you know, pieces to a puzzle. So now I wasn't just piecing it together. Now I was actually seeing it unfold on that episode and man, that was something [00:20:00] else.

Cinnamon: Wow.

Erin: you to put that together, to realize, Oh, wait, this is that. This is exactly what I have envisioned. Cause that's what we hear about the most is like, we have to paint these pictures in our mind and it might be worse than it actually is, or it might not be as dramatic as it actually is. And as terrible as it actually is.

so to see that, I can't even imagine, which kind of led me to my question was, how do you feel about there being an opportunity for some dispatchers to actually see what's going on? do you have a take on if that's a good thing or a bad thing? Like, Hmm.

RIcardo: So I guess I go back and forth with it. A lot of those companies that are coming out with this video to 911 and such, they have created it by like, they go to different centers and they'll say, you know, how would you like to see this? You know, the company that I was working for before. We were doing text for 911 and, you know, it was pictures and stuff that might be coming through at the [00:21:00] time.

And we would go to those centers and say, how do you want to see this happen? How do you want it to come in? Which I love companies that do that because they're thinking about our mental health and wellness, right? So with a lot of the video to 911 companies that are out there, those come in blurred to begin with.

And they can choose whether they want to see it or not. So for me, as long as the dispatch centers have that all in mind, because there's a lot more resources out there now than there was when I was in dispatch. think it'll help out. And I also think, and a lot of people have said to me, I don't know about that.

 I don't know about what you're saying, but I feel like in Certain situations, it will help with the closure piece because we don't get to know a lot of times we don't know there's only been a couple times out of my 13 years in dispatch, on the line and a supervisor that I was given that gift of closure.

And I feel like, [00:22:00] again, like I said, in certain situations, video can help with some of that closure piece, but it's going to take a lot for, a lot of those resources to continue to be there because now that you're actually going to be seeing it,

Cinnamon: So as you're talking, a couple things popped into my head. One is, I don't know what I don't know yet, and so as a dispatcher, think that would be helpful and only find out after that, guess what? It's not. And in fact, it's, a negative experience.

RIcardo: right?

Cinnamon: Like now, now that I have it, I'm like, go ahead, take it away.

 the other thing that came up was in terms of, you know, that whole, how do we get. Other first responders and just civilians, the general population, in general, to really grasp that is, and, Mr. Marketing Guy, that Mother's Day commercial of the guy asking if anybody wants this job, and as he's describing it, everybody's like, that's gotta be illegal.

Nobody would take this job. And then he's like, and then you don't get [00:23:00] paid for it. And then he reveals it's being a mom, right? I think, we have this idea of if you start out the conversation with I am or I was a dispatcher or here's what the 911 experience is, it has a different landing point because we've normalized it.

You all have normalized it. But if I think about what would it be like to be on scene and have to wear a blindfold? That's kind of what it's like, and my God, I would want to be ripping that shit off the whole entire time. that I can relate to. That I can feel the gravity of how aggravating it would be to not be able to see what's happening.

To have to potentially give misinformation because you're trying to connect these dots without being able to see. And that, that's what it's like. Yeah, I'm over here thinking of your next marketing strategy plan and I don't even mean to be but like, you know 

Erin: Where they pass out [00:24:00] blindfolds to all cops and firefighters so they can understand what it's like to be in their shoes. Ah, there you go! Ha ha 

ha ha. I'm 

Cinnamon: do they keep radio checking me? I'm trying to put out a fire, and I'm like, they don't know you're still alive,

Cinnamon: right? Like, they can't see

RIcardo: Yeah. I will say that when I very first started doing the podcast and this is the end of 2012 going into 2013, wow, that sounds, it's so long ago now, 

Cinnamon: uh, because

you're like, Bogdiggity, right? Like, yeah, you only can think of those songs if you're

RIcardo: yes, I had a, and we're still really good friends, but, a hard ass deputy. and form a Marine and such, and he would joke with us sometimes like what are you guys doing when you tell me to stand by on the other channel to hold, you know, to run something through you guys, like for a license check or warrant check or whatever.

And I would tell him 911 doesn't stop, man. I understand you need us to run it, but there are so many things going on where we're running the entire county and there's only three of us. I [00:25:00] said, you have to hold on. So when I started the podcast, I had the first three episodes out there and he sent me a message on his laptop to my computer and he goes, I just want to tell you that I've learned more about what you guys do in the first three episodes that I've listened to than my whole 20 years.

Of being in law enforcement. Don't stop what you're doing because we need to know. We need to know what it's like for you guys, because we don't know. And towards the end of my dispatching career, we had a lot more officers coming in causeit was always us doing the ride alongs. Well, now they're coming in, sitting with us and a few of them.

Would come in to help. Let's just say for example, this one time it was a bad storm and we were just doing trees down wires down and they were doing the phone calls for us to like the road commission. They lasted an hour and they're like, we need to get the hell out of here. We don't know how you guys do this, how you're able to do everything at once.

But I would rather be out

Cinnamon: Potentially [00:26:00] getting 

RIcardo: dealing with people face to face. Right. Yes. But it was awesome to have them, you know, for us to. bridge that gap on what it's like for everyone so that they could understand.

Erin: That is a genius plan. Which we have said before, like, we don't understand why that's not part of the training, is to sit in your shoes for a week. You know, it's like every single one of you sit in each other's shoes for 

one week so you can work together, not like, and I know it's like ball busting, like, oh yeah, hose draggers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, 

that kind of thing. it's all in good fun, but still it's like, maybe it will even the playing field of like, my job's better than yours, or we see worse crap than yours, or this is harder, and you know, that whole fraternity. energy. 

RIcardo: Yeah, it was hard for them to imagine how we do a lot of that stuff. And so what we would start doing is we would tell them, because they would say, how on earth are you guys doing this? And we would say, it's FM. They would go, what? And I'd say, it's FM. That's how we do it. And then they would just look at us and [00:27:00] we would go fucking magic. That's how we do it.

Erin: Did you make like little sparkly jazz hands when you 

RIcardo: Like, 

jazz hands, fucking magic. It's FM.

Erin: that's awesome.

Cinnamon: I'm sitting here in anticipation, I'm like, and then, boom!

Duh, of course.

RIcardo: Yeah. that's what we would tell them because, And we would also say, you know, we've got what I call dispatch ear. And, I would say, you know, when we're listening, so we've got, you know, both of our ears going, my left ear is listening to everything in the room that is going on, every single thing.

My right ear is listening to whoever's on the call. But think about this. If it's an open line and no one is talking, I'm on the call. Listening to every single thing. So imagine a movie and there's those moments where things are in slow motion and it zooms in on every important piece. That's exactly what I'm doing with my dispatch here.

I'm zooming in on every [00:28:00] single sound to piece together what I think is going on there until someone speaks to me or I can get somebody on the line.

Cinnamon: Yeah. When you just said that, I thought of, a court case that we had due to an arson where there was a line of duty death and there was some confusion with a first witness up who obviously we know with trauma, messes with our memory. And there was a lack of clarity around whether or not they broke the glass or somebody else.

And so as you're saying that the idea of you actually become a critical. Information collector and holder that you're like, I heard the glass break, know exactly when they breached the house how many times have you or another dispatcher that you know of have been subpoenaed to go talk in a court 

RIcardo: meeting.

Cinnamon: You have,

RIcardo: Yes. Yeah. It was a domestic violence case. And I went in and for a few months there, we were getting subpoenaed on every single domestic is just like you're [00:29:00] saying, we're considered a prime witness because we were the ones on the phone. We were listening to every single thing and we've got that dispatcher going and I go into the courthouse and I'm standing there talking to the person at the window.

And there were people sitting in the room already. And I was sure they were part of this case. And sure enough, they were, but it was also because I didn't want someone to like, come after me, you know, because I'm a witness now. And they go, you're from dispatch. And I'm like, keep it down. Yes, I am.

Geez. But here's a kind of a funny thing that happened with that. I'm waiting downstairs to go into. The courtroom to have my moment on the stand. Right. And I'm waiting for hours and I'm just sitting there. I'm like, okay, people in dispatch are sending me text messages saying, are you coming back?

And I said, yeah, I'm, I'm just waiting to get on the stand. So I finally get up and I go over to the courtroom. I opened the door. No one is there. They forgot about me. 

Erin: [00:30:00] Oh, my

RIcardo: No shit. They forgot about me.They forgot about me. And I was just standing there with an empty room. I was like, okay. So I went back to dispatch and I told my supervisor, I wasn't a supervisor yet, but I told my supervisor and she goes, hell no.

And I said, no, hell yeah, that did happen. So they pulled me in the next morning and all of them were, We're so sorry. I was like, I mean, like, okay,

Cinnamon: if that isn't a representation. Of the life of a dispatcher you forgot about me you all went home and left me in that room Yeah, i'm used to it. I'm used to Being the forgotten one you're like kevin from home alone. Like they just forgot about you.

Erin: God, how

RIcardo: went down. Yeah. But, I did have that moment on the stand and it was interesting being on there, you know, listening to the whole call back. Like I remembered it. I'm just sitting there like, yep. I remember that. I remember that. And the questions were, is that your voice? Yes. [00:31:00] You took this call such and such day?

Yes. All right. I was like, that was it.

Erin: anticlimactic. They could have at least made it exciting for you after leaving you in the dust,

RIcardo: Yeah, well, I mean, the,the attorney for the suspect, he asked me a few more questions though, but it wasn't much more than that. And yeah, so I was like, okay, I did what I was here to do. and you didn't forget about me this time.

Erin: Wow. My gosh. 

RIcardo: Yeah,

it's an interesting profession, you know, the whole thing. And when I was telling you about my burnout and, going back to school and everything that was going on, you know, that stuff saved me just before a lot of this happened, a lot of the burnout that I was dealing with, I took the 911 call when my grandmother passed away.

Yeah. So. It's 2007 and, my grandmother was living with my aunt. This is in the county that I was working in, the county that I grew up in, actually. And, we knew she was getting close. [00:32:00] My mom and my sisters had been sending me text messages saying, you know, her breaths are getting further and further apart, she's pretty close.

And it was already decided that if, she passed away while I was in dispatch for that shift that night, that I could leave. Now I was on backup phones and radios, so there was no reason that I would be taking any of those main calls. But then my coworker, she got up and she goes, Hey, I had a lot of different names in dispatch.

She was like, Ricky, I'm going to go to the, the break room. Is that okay? And I said, yeah, of course there's nothing going on anyway, which is basically, you know, you're tempting fate when you say stuff like that, right? And you throw that on the universe, something's going to happen. And no later did the door shut the phone rings.

 the hair in the back of my neck stood up and I never hesitate to pick up the phone. This old phone system, if you waited half a ring, then all the information popped up on the screen. If you just pick it up, you go right into the call and of course you have to [00:33:00] wait for that half ring to see whatever pops up.

So I waited that half ring and the phone number that popped up was my mother's cell phone. And I thought, what are the odds? That I'm going to be the one to take this call. So I answer elegant 911. Where's your emergency? And it's my, cousin, Brenda. And she goes, grandma just died. And I just sat there for a split second. I just thought, wow, what the hell? And. I went through the motions, you know, and my supervisor said, you know, go ahead and leave. And I went to be with my family and it was poetic though, like, you know, my grandmother, she was a great, great storyteller and I feel like I got what I do from her.

And she left me with this story to be able to tell forever. And she had lived with my parents before my siblings and I were born. So she was literally there for me in the beginning. And I was there for her in the end.

Erin: touching. [00:34:00] And How special for your family too, for it to be you, that safe space, that person that they know isn't just doing their job, like having that moment. If you can swing it and look at the beauty of it, which you have, obviously, that is a very special experience and hard,

RIcardo: Yeah,

Erin: Mm hmm.

RIcardo: I feel blessed to have been the one to take that call because I'm a firm believer that, there are some phone calls that we take that are just meant for us because of whatever past experience we might have. It allows us to connect more, you know, all we're, we're empaths.

We put ourselves in our caller's shoes to be able to relate quickly, build that rapport and trust to get them help as fast as possible with the answers to our questions that we're asking. And with some of that experience, we're able to connect deeper. And a lot of those people are the ones that stick with us forever.

And we always wonder and hope that they're okay. [00:35:00] And so this one was definitely meant for me. And that was, 

that was with my grandmother. 

Cinnamon: Yeah, there, are no coincidences. that was all part of the plan. You just didn't know that that was the plan until that phone rang and you're like, son of a, 

and

what a gift though. Like even with you not being on the phones. It still worked out divinely for you to be the one to take that call.

So it wasn't a stranger's voice that Aunt Brenda heard.

RIcardo: Right.

Cinnamon: Ricardo, most of our podcasts are pretty, heavy on the humor, but I think you've almost made Erin and I cry about three times now. So, this, this, is definitely going in a different direction cause I'm just like over here going, 

what else? There's, I mean, 

RIcardo: Well, how about

I can give you two stories, one with a good outcome that will maybe get you a little emotional, but the second one will be a straight up funny one and it'll [00:36:00] also kind of make you think

a little bit. So let me give you a 

couple of stories here. Yes, yes, definitely.

Okay. So building on the same concept of, you know, these calls being made for us, for some of us, There was a time where I was dealing with some really bad back pain and neck pain and shoulder pain. I mean, to the point where I felt like I, just couldn't take it. And, you know, I'm in dispatch, you know, it's probably the stress and just everything else that was going on during this time.

And if I could go back in time, To talk to myself, not to change anything, just to simply talk to myself. I would tell myself to do what I'm about to tell you a lot sooner. So I would go to the doctor and they didn't know what to do for me. They're like, I don't know. You're, you seem in good health, but you're going through all this pain.

I'm like, okay, thanks. I have to figure this out myself. Okay. So there was one thing that I had not tried yet. And it was because of fear of being made fun of or, you know, if I did something wrong or whatever, and it was yoga, believe it or not, it was [00:37:00] yoga. One session of yoga, the pain was gone because also breathing techniques, meditation that I had gotten into all of this stuff to really help me helped.

So you fast forward a while and I get this phone call from a lady who's suicidal. She doesn't want to live anymore. And her issue was because she was dealing with so much back and neck pain that she couldn't take it anymore. She just wanted to die. And there was something someone told me early on when I very first started about dispatching.

They said, you have to have thick skin. You have to have common sense and you have to be human. And it's that human side, that I talk to people about all the time. So I decided to tell her as we're waiting for people to get there, because you got to keep their mind going, trying to keep them off of whatever it was they were calling for in the beginning, right?

So I took a shot and I told her [00:38:00] what I did. And I told her about yoga and we were just talking and talking and talking. And at the end of it, she said, thank you. And she said that she didn't want to kill herself anymore because now there was another pathway. There was another way, another option, and she was going to try it.

And for all I know, She's a yoga instructor somewhere. I don't know, but I feel like that call was meant for me because I had that experience, not to say that my partners wouldn't do a good job, they would probably do a great job, but they didn't have that experience that I had to be able to help her in that moment.

And every time I practice yoga now, I think about that person and I hope that that person is okay.

Cinnamon: So, that brings up the issue of disclosure, right? The idea that you are simply supposed to be an information taker. 

RIcardo: Right. 

[00:39:00] Yeah. 

Cinnamon: and you, used all of your skills. To make clearly a good decision to share something personal that she could relate to. And she went from ready to end it to having a hair more hope.

So, what do you think are the pros and cons in general of, this isn't necessarily a suicide hotline where that has different context to it, but you oftentimes become a suicide hotline. So how do you, feel about that? Does the thick skin get violated or shattered if you share something and how do you choose?

what we call therapeutic disclosure? How do you choose when and how and maybe you're like I never did it again I didn't know that but like just from your own experience and your expertise. What would you say about that? [00:40:00] That.

RIcardo: know, I think for me personally, it, it was just the thought that if this were my family member or it was me, I would want someone to try just a little more. to help out and not every situation is the same, right? and a lot of times for us, a 911, we blame ourselves for a lot of this. I mean, we have to tell ourselves, this is not our emergency.

It's not ours. It's not ours, but we hang on to it. I mean, the last two weeks that I was in dispatch, if 911 was a gang, my ass was getting beat out because those were the types of calls I was taking those last two weeks. It was like I was getting beat out. One of them that started out as a disorderly subject.

And at the very end of the call, the person says to me, I think they're suicidal too, because that changes everything. So then immediately I start [00:41:00] questioning in my head, if I would have changed my line of questioning, what have I, would I have found that out sooner? And so now I'm second guessing almost everything.

I hang up with that person. I have the phone number for the person that had left there. I've got the vehicle description. I'm trying to call that person to hopefully get ahold of them before they do anything that might harm them. Phone is ringing. Phone is ringing, but other lines are ringing as well.

So I have to hang up with trying to call that person to answer this other call. And the person says to me, I just saw a car go into a tree. And I asked what the vehicle description was. And as they said it, because they gave me the location, which wasn't far from that original one that I took before, and as they said, a blue Toyota Tercel, I remember lipping the vehicle description, and I asked if anybody could safely go and check out the person that was driving, and they said, I don't think there's any way this person made it.

And, it was the person that I was trying to [00:42:00] call. I couldn't get to that person and we sent everybody over there. That one bothered me enough that I took a moment to look at the map. I was mapping it out. I was replaying the entire conversation to see if there was any other way that I could have gotten to that person.

And I finally had to realize, no, there was nothing else. So going back to the original question and everything, I think in certain situations, it's. going beyond that call of duty in these phone calls to at least try. And if I would have gotten in trouble for that one, honestly, I wouldn't have given a shit the one that I mean with the person with the yoga, because I at least tried and I wanted to try to save them.

And that's what we all try to do when we're talking to somebody. And sometimes you don't get that chance. I luckily was one of those people who'd never heard. Someone actually do it over the phone, but I spoken to [00:43:00] many, many people and a few of them that I was able to save and I'm glad that I at least tried.

Erin: Gosh, you're like a detective too. that's your second job,

dispatcher and detective.

Cinnamon: he's got the red thread out because he's gone rogue. 

RIcardo: Right.

there's there's so much that goes into it.

Erin: yeah. Oh, now, what I was going to say, it just left, it went away. Never mind. It'll come back. Cinnamon will have something great. Ha 

ha 

Cinnamon: And maybe this is what Erin, thought of and then her brain quickly released it. But as I'm listening to you, talk about those feelings of responsibility, I'm like, been there, done that. It's ugly. Right? Like even that language of like, I couldn't save them, I couldn't get through to them.

you did get through, that phone was ringing, it was the choice of the other, you know, and I've even had to learn this, from, people that know a whole lot [00:44:00] more than me, when I hear somebody say, you know, I was about to take my life, and then dude called me, and dude saved my life, I'm like, no, dude didn't, cause one, you could've. Let it go to voicemail to you could have taken the call and then got off the phone and then still completed suicide. Like there is this weird aversion for us to take ownership of our choices. Even when it's the choice 

that allowed us to still be here. And my clients hear this all the time.

I'm like, semantics are important, how we phrase. And my husband, when he's like, I can't do that. I'm like, can you not do that? Or do you not want to, or are you not prioritizing it? Right? Like don't use can't. And so even having to learn doing this therapy business, of I couldn't or I didn't and it's like, no, you got [00:45:00] through, there was a choice on the other person's side and that's a bitter pill to swallow.

And I've told Erin this and we've had this conversation, like if I keep believing I couldn't get them to answer, then that still leaves that space for, I could do something if I figure out the thing to do to get them to answer, it goes away. 

Erin: hmm.

Cinnamon: But the fact that it doesn't matter what you do, it can still result in that outcome is terrifying.

And so we go a different direction for our own personal protection and we don't even notice it most of the time.

Erin: Yeah, it's just like going back to, I want to know why I want to know why that happened. And the answer is, Okay, so what happens when you know why? It changes nothing, then you just know why. it doesn't actually change the end result. it, 

RIcardo: It's true. It's that closure piece It's just, so [00:46:00] here's, here's an example. I took a call once and I promise we'll get to a funny one here soon about calls, but I just, want to build upon what we're talking about here. I had taken this phone call. Basically it was an infant CPR that resulted in a death The way it happened, I won't go into detail, but I knew basically what had happened, right?

However, detectives were called out for it. So now I'm wondering, and all of this is, is going through my head. And I also had a young infant at the time. So I'm connecting that way as well. So my supervisor, when I'm done with the call, I'm just sitting there staring at the screen and she goes, Ricardo, are you okay?

 And I said, yeah, yeah, I'm okay, because that's what everyone says. Right. But inside I was dying. And so her husband was a sergeant who was on duty and he was out there and she goes, I'm going to have him come in here to talk to you.

 And he comes in and actually right before he came in, I got a phone call because our [00:47:00] EMS and fire would call in for their times and numbers on their calls. And they asked for the person who took that call. And I answered the phone and they said, Hey man, when we got there, they were doing textbook CPR.

I just want you to know you did a good job and there was nothing else that you could do. and that helped to hear that because it left nothing to chance. There was nothing else I could have done and I needed to hear that and you're right. The outcome doesn't change, but knowing that, that is what I needed.

And then the sergeant came up and sat next to me and he goes, what do you need from me? And I said, I just need to know exactly what happened because you guys had detectives out there. And then he told me everything. There was nothing. criminal, that's all they needed to do was to make sure that there wasn't anything like that.

And that as well, that was that gift of closure. And I will always be grateful for it because I knew that I [00:48:00] had done everything in my power to try to help them. I'm sorry, like the both of you are like, what the fuck?

Erin: No, it's the way that you spin it back around. 

Cinnamon: we're just susceptible to the power of your story like we're just a couple civilians that are feeling the power of what this whole mental health thing I think that I came in to this work in 2017 and It was smooth sailing, right?

Like there had been EAP workers for cities that I had known that had been doing this for 20 years. And they're like, we tapped our fingers on the table, a lot waiting for somebody to show up. So coming in, it felt like slide was very well greased at this point. Erin coming in. I don't know if it was 2020 or 2020.

We we've lost. I, I don't, we don't,

know anymore. infinity, like [00:49:00] it gets so much easier to do this work and the numbers are increasing of people that are willing to allow this to land and willing to be courageous and put their story out there and say, Hey, you can Call me a pussy or you can be inspired by me.

Either way doesn't bother me I'm gonna do what I need to do for my mental health because your opinion of me is Way less important than my life and my family my kids my spouse that's who Was gonna suffer if I didn't take care of my mental health, but those numbers are increasing And it's so great to talk to somebody like you who can share what it was like in 2010 or 2013 or even, God forbid, in the 90s.

in the 90s, where, 

RIcardo: In the when, when, it was hard. Yeah. When it was like, this is what it felt like to be [00:50:00] considered clerical admin support who just, hello, answer our phones. And then you had to stuff these stories because Nobody expected you to be affected by them. And so therefore you thought something was wrong with you to be affected by them.

Cinnamon: And you're a game changer. You know, you're a change maker. you're doing the shit. And you're probably unbeknownst to you have had a hand in countless people choosing hope like yoga. Rather than taking their life, I think we kind of get busy in the grind of microphones and what's connecting and what's not and so it's having these conversations with people like you that make you sit a little deeper in your seat that what we're doing is Working to help people save their lives Because God forbid we're still doing what we were doing before to you all

RIcardo: it's an interesting thing where it's just simple communication [00:51:00] to small things, but those small things are the ones that are always the hardest, right? And when you go to someone to try to talk to them to say, or to ask, are you okay? And they say, yes, you can feel it. You can feel that vibe. When you ask one more time, and a lot of times, even if it's a third time, they will then say well, and then you're in.

And that's where you continue that conversation, and you're able to bring out whatever it is that's bothering them. But you have to be present man, like you have to, you have to actually want to listen. and be there and sometimes people don't, but also those are the folks who are also kind of dealing with their own shit and they're trying to figure out their own thing.

 when I first left Michigan to Florida and I started my whole, dispatching career, I was at my own version of rock bottom. And I remember when I decided to leave, I turned on the radio and the song that came on was alive by POD. And for anyone who is listening or [00:52:00] watching this right now, if you've never heard that song, please do because the lyrics right off the bat in the beginning say 

everything 

and 

I knew things will be all 

right.

Erin: And you were like, and there's the answer. 

RIcardo: Right. Now, want to tell you though, when I very first started dispatching in Florida, there was one night that I was working and there was a guy who got pulled over, he had a warrant and he ran. And we had a canine out there from the county and the city. They were all looking for this person. And when they brought him in, he was drenched completely wet.

And I thought, I said, what the hell happened? And they said, you won't believe this. So when this guy ran and they're looking for him, the canine kept going to this, above ground pool and barking at it. And there was like, I don't know what's going on. So they leave because it's the middle of the night and they go back again.

Well, when they look closer, they see a straw [00:53:00] up above the water. The guy was in the pool the whole time.

Cinnamon: I mean, he's, kind of clever,

Erin: I 

know. That's pretty smart. I mean, I wouldn't think of that. Right.

That, 

Cinnamon: I'm like,

Erin: yeah.

He just had a straw in his pocket. 

RIcardo: Now they could have been blowing smoke up my ass. I don't know, but that's what they told me. The person was hiding man in the water.

Erin: But you can't even be surprised with the things that you hear. It's like, yeah, I'm sure that did happen because people are wild and 

RIcardo: Yeah, Yeah, and why would the officers tell me anything otherwise? I mean, the person was drenched, so I don't know, but when I ended up moving back to Southwest Michigan, finished off my dispatching career in the county that I grew up in, there was one night that this lady would call all the time and it always seemed like I was the one who would get the phone call from her.

And one night she fell asleep on me. And I thought, okay, I am never going to get a chance to do this in real life. So I'm going to go ahead and do it. And I wish to God that I had the recording for this because I will never forget it. [00:54:00] But I'm sorry. I'm already laughing, but I'm on the phone and I go, Annie, Annie, are you okay?

Are you okay? Annie? And my partners in the room, they all look at me and I'm like, shut up, shut up. And then I hear, Oh, I'm sorry. I just wasn't falling asleep. And I was like, it's okay, Annie. Just wanted to make sure you were okay.

Erin: That is hilarious.

RIcardo: Because when else am I going to get a chance to do something like that?

Erin: right.

Cinnamon: absolutely. And it's also reaffirming to us because we turn everything into songs. And so it's kind of like that whole, like, you're not alone. There's too many of us to ever feel alone. We are all people who go to song lyrics in our heads. 

RIcardo: Yeah. 

That was my moment. I had

to go for it. so, you know, I always forget what it's called, but there are folks that they use one of those little machines to [00:55:00] talk, you know? Okay. So I take a phone call once and I answer 9 1 1, where's your emergency? And immediately I hear, I need help.

And I thought, this is different. Like immediately in my head, I'm thinking I'm speaking to a speak and spell. Hopefully people listening to this know what a speak and spell is. and so that's what's in my head right away, right? So this person was having an argument with their daughter. They're separated, nothing physical going on, officers getting that way.

And I kept calling this person Carl, okay? But at the end of the call, Carl had had enough of my ass. Because Carl ends up saying to me, My name is not Carl, it's Carol, and then immediately I'm like, Oh my God. And I said, I am so sorry, Carol, ma'am. I am so sorry. But here's the thing, Carol had a sense of humor because then Carol says, this thing makes me sound like a man.

Ha ha ha [00:56:00] Uh,

Erin: there it is. There's just one of the many hilarious ones. Did you laugh? How did you 

RIcardo: so okay, so we're supposed to stay professional right but there was no way I was not gonna laugh I straight up started laughing with carol and I said i'm so sorry and she's like it's okay and I was like I hung up the phone and I just sat there laughing and they're like what happened I was like listen to this

See i'm i'm I'm also a firm believer that the dispatch universe, dispatch gods, whatever you want to call it, we will end up taking shit call after shit call.

And then the throw in a little bit of humor and like, you know what? You deserve this one. We're going to give you something to laugh at. So that's how it seemed like it would always happen. It would be a string of hard calls and then a funny one like that or odd would come in. And then you're like, is this real life?

Yeah, it is. This happens.

Cinnamon: this reality?

RIcardo: Right. 

Erin: Here we go again. It's like, now [00:57:00] you guys are in it together.

The rest of the. I do want to ask you, I was going to say when you take us out on a funny one, which you just gave us a funny one, but before we do leave, I want to say, What is the main number one message that you want your fellow dispatchers out there to know, understand and appreciate?

Because as many people as I know, follow you or know about what you're doing and whether it's UK or Australia or Canada or here, there's a lot of people that still feel alone and they might be that person that's listening to our show that doesn't know about you yet. And so what is it? What's that message?

RIcardo: don't be afraid to open up and share because for years I was bearing my calls. And if you can learn anything from me, it is to not be afraid because there are way more resources now and there are way more people that are talking and sharing. Whether you end up doing it with me, or you do it just on your [00:58:00] own, simply journal.

Those are one of the big things I'm telling people, is to journal. That's what I would do if I went back in time to talk to myself, I would tell myself to do that as well. Because there's a lot of hell that happens in 9 1 1. And if you're writing down those wins, when you're having one of those shit days, you can go back.

And read those wins and remember why you were doing what you're doing because what you do is important. 

Erin: Yay. And now my clients can listen to this and know that I'm not just psycho when I'm like, write down your wins of the day, five at least. And they're so sick of me saying it. I'm like, where's your wins journal? And I'm like. Listen, it works for that exact reason that you said. It works. Because when you're feeling like, I can't take anymore, or I suck, or this is so hard, you can pull that journal out and say, yeah. so, I love it. I love that you hit that. That's so helpful.

Cinnamon: You know, as you're talking [00:59:00] about this wins journal, 

Cinnamon: We have something that we call the God box.

So if you have something that is stressing you out or that you're worried about, or you're fearful of, write it on a slip of paper and drop it in your God box. And then at the end of the year, or whenever you deem appropriate, Open that up, look at those slips of paper, and see what resolved itself, how many things you worried about for nothing.

And I can't tell you when I open mine up at the end of the year, like 90 percent of the slips of paper just say my husband's first name. But that same kind of thing of this was a really shitty Call and I'm gonna write down a couple words or a phrase that'll help me remember what this was and then I can assess however long later Is this one that's still bugging me and I think that When you have some distance from it, you open something [01:00:00] like that up and you have that visceral reaction or you don't.

And that can help even guide you to know

Okay. If I'm going to talk to somebody, whether it's a peer support or a professional or a trusted friend or family member, like these are the ones that I get to revisit because they didn't just fade out on their own. They're still here. I can still hear that person's voice.

I can still, remember that call, whatever, comes up that makes it still feel so real and unprocessed. I could even see where kind of meshing together, Wins Journal, AA Guidebox, and DramaLog together where it can kind of help you, keep your finger on the pulse of how you're doing.

RIcardo: Agreed. there's a lot of calls that I actually wrote down when I was blogging and when I first started doing it, I remember my admin they told me, no, don't do it. And I said, why? I said, we were part of that call as [01:01:00] well. I was part of that. I'm only going to be talking about what happened to me.

I need to get that out and I think it would help other people as well. And they still told me no. And I, left. And when I went back in, I, I remembered something and I went back into the office at this time, I'm a supervisor and I said, Hey, didn't you tell us last week in our supervisors meeting that you're not allowed to regulate our feelings online?

And they go, yeah, why? And I said, thank you. That's all I needed. And they said, you're going to do this anyway, aren't you? And I said, you're damn right I am. I said, cause it's about time and it's going to get out there and it's going to help people. I don't know how, I don't know when, but I'm going to stick to it.

And I've been doing it ever since. A mixture of good, bad, therapeutic, all of the above. But I agree with you. Definitely.

Cinnamon: Have you talked to that supervisor recently to find out? If they feel like you, going rogue and not following the rules was actually a [01:02:00] good thing. And they've said, I apologize for trying to stifle your

Erin: That story's in their God box, like that time 

that Ricardo and now they're like, I feel great about this.

RIcardo: Well, that specific person, I think when they said that it was just because we had new administrators that were coming in at the time. And a person actually was in conversation with another admin from a surrounding agency who said that I needed to go to the state conference. To talk about what I was doing.

So that person who had told me no, in the beginning, immediately jumped on board on what I was doing, because this person did believe in it. But I think that because of the new admin that was coming in or county administrators, rather, they were trying to just kind of play ball. When I started doing it started becoming so big right away that they were just like, I'm behind it.

Let's do this. So that person and I spoke immediately, around that time and they were definitely pushing and supporting what I was doing and I've been doing it ever [01:03:00] since. Right.

Cinnamon: I told him, I had that CYA conversation. and then they're like, secretly go get him tiger.

RIcardo: Yeah. 

Erin: Well, I do want to add on here. I started listening to the imagine listening book on audible. it sounds like you have like a whole series though. And I did have to stop it a couple times because it does hit close to home. it feels a little bit different than just like when our client tells us stories sitting, in session.

so I do want to encourage people to check that out. You know, that is one of those privacy in your own home or in your own car kind of things that maybe folks could really relate to in terms of hearing their own story or just knowing that they're not alone. And I know that you're traveling all around the nation at minimum.

Maybe the world at this point, talking to folks and, what's the best way to contact you? Obviously go to the listening platform of your choice. That's what I always say to folks, because you're everywhere in terms of within the trenches. So, deets?

RIcardo: [01:04:00] so the easiest way to find everything to simply go to links and that's with two eyes. So it's L I I N K S dot C O slash WTT podcast. And that'll take people to my bio page. So that's everything is on there. Email, social media, the latest episode, the books, any podcast or dispatch, merch, and, other places that I'm at where I'm either teaching, at dispatch centers or going to conferences doing the imagine listening sessions out there.

So those are the easiest ways, but also, you know, to build upon what you were saying about the book on audible, a warning. there's a warning on it. Cause as you said, some of those stories are pretty heavy. And those are things like I said, it's imagine listening to something like this and that story about my grandmother is in there.

So if you've got the book, it's page number seven. But I got the opportunity and privilege to be able to voice it. And, that was an honor. I too had to stop a few times [01:05:00] while I was doing it, because especially with the imagine listening sessions, I record a lot of those stories that are written down and after I'm done with it, I have to sit and meditate for a little while.

to get it all out there for myself specifically.

Erin: Good for you. Smart.

Cinnamon: Self care,

helping others.helpin Richie, helpin others, helpin Richie.

RIcardo: Exactly. 

Cinnamon: Smart. Or Ricky. Or Ricardo. I've heard 

Erin: being called 

Cinnamon: Richie. 

and 

Erin: I know. I've heard all of them. 

RIcardo: Yeah. Many, many different ones.

Cinnamon: yeah, and then Erin and I are like, you can just call us by our names. 

RIcardo: You can't make any cool nickname out of Erin. Air. 

Erin: mean. But Aaron just

RIcardo: air. 

Erin: Yeah. Air. 

Cinnamon: I do call her Air,

and that, that tells you how lazy I can be. That I literally will take Erin and shorten it to Air because it's such a time saver.

Erin: Oh my gosh. Well, sweetie, thank you so much for your time. 

RIcardo: Of [01:06:00] course. 

Erin: you are a magical spirit. I will say there's something very bright and special about you and what you're doing and how you show up in this world. that whole energy that you put out. It makes me feel safe, so I imagine it makes others feel safe and like they can just sink into who they really are.

And that is a valuable, valuable gift that you have because not everybody knows that they have it or feels confident in tapping into it to share it. So thank you for everything that you're doing.