Clash of Expectations: Understanding Emotional Reactions and Biological Rudeness

EP65: Clash of Expectations

Erin: [00:00:00] 

As many folks, well, not many, it's not like everybody's like stalking us on social media, seven, as seven folks may know, recently, Cinnamon and I completed a training with, a department.

And we touched on a lot of things, but one of the things we did touch on is something that we actually talked about a little bit in our Aces series way back when. But we really feel like it's something important to really highlight as its own featured episode because it did get lost in the shuffle in Aces. That is a little thing called biological rudeness. I got to say, my husband, he's like super anti this name. He's like, this doesn't imply what it is at all. I don't understand. I was like, Cinnamon didn't name it. She's not the one. I mean, I get what he's saying

Cinnamon: We'll be the one. I'll be the one to name it.

Erin: well, I think that you should get to name a lot of things. They'd be a lot of fun, but. Listener, I will say that [00:01:00] he really often is the advocate for us to explain things in a way that you can understand. A lot of it because a lot of our folks are of the male gender and this profession and he's like, I'm a dude. I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

And so I appreciate that advocacy, I guess, but also I'm like on the clinical side, I think we do a great job at making it less clinical.

Cinnamon: Right. 

Erin: That being said,

Cinnamon: To me, it's kind of the same argument. Like, sure, let me call up Stephen Porge, who is the, the brains behind polyvagal theory, and let him know that we, don't think he picked, the most accurate and reflective name. Same reason why I'm gonna call up the APA and be like, yeah, we don't really like the D in PTSD.

Like, guess what? they don't care, right? In it, in it.It is what it is, but I do, I like the name biological rudeness because the [00:02:00] biological speaks into 

Erin: Our automatic response, 

Cinnamon: yeah, it's not about 

Erin: it's deep. 

Cinnamon: perception on some superficial level where you can just Bob Newhart therapy that and like, just stop it, right?

The other piece is, I do think it's a pearl clutching kind of rudeness. being taken aback like that and this is one of my favorite things to teach because I feel like it is a huge game changer in relationships because I know for a fact when I, would come home or my husband would come home.

This used to happen a lot when we were first married. even before we were married and just before we got married. It's simply, living in sin. And I couldn't, I didn't know how to stop it. I didn't know, I didn't know how to explain it. And both of us felt very justified and even though it was a very hypocritical double standard because the two roles in this all can be easily reversed. In [00:03:00] that moment, you feel right as rain and this helped me really understand what was happening in those interactions and. it has been a big game changer for how I communicate with other people, which you've seen me react or respond, or maybe perhaps not react when people have been angry and you're like, how are you just sitting there so comfortably? And I'm like, yeah, cause it's not about me. And this was. a huge part of the groundwork of that, work for me.

Erin: Yeah. And so to kind of preface it, biological rudeness is really when we have an expectation of how we believe or feel someone should be reacting as a response to our engagement with them. Okay. 

Cinnamon: Yeah. when I have an expectation that you are going to reciprocate or reflect, my engagement. So If I say hi, Erin, I'm [00:04:00] automatically, without even giving it any conscious thought, I'm going to assume That you are going to come back with, Hi Cinnamon!

Right? And so there's this neurological expectation that is not even within our control. Like it's automatically happening that we're not even aware of. So, when you don't reciprocate that engagement, then, because I've identified you as a friend rather than a foe, I've let down my guard. And when I then encounter you and you Either ignore me, dismiss me, are too distracted to respond in a way that I think is quote reciprocating.

Erin: or even if it's,hostile or mildly dismissive, right? Because sometimes I think hostile, gets a, a better response than mildly dismissive. Well, hostile, though, sounds like much more [00:05:00] violent.

Cinnamon: Yeah. And it could just be like I'm distracted and I'm looking at my phone and I'm like, Oh, I look up and I'm like, Oh yeah, hi. And then I look back down at my phone.

That's most likely gonna, piss somebody off more than if they were outwardly angry. And you could tell that they were angry at you, because that's going to send you in a different mindset than Somebody just being dismissive, which if you want to hear more about that, go back to the behavior chain episode.

so I'm letting down that drawbridge, right? That proverbial drawbridge because you're a friend, not a foe. You don't respond to me the way that I'm anticipating. And now I got to hurry up and crank that wheel that pulls the chains that are pulling that drawbridge back up. And I'm going to have an immediate and massive shift in my autonomic nervous system back to defensiveness. Right? So, all of a sudden, I'm completely vulnerable. I do not have my shield or my sword. we're getting real Arthur's, round [00:06:00] table here.

Erin: I mean, I know, I'm like, what are you like a, you want to be a knight?

Cinnamon: Right, I know. No, I, what is it, princess or, oh shit, what was her name? I'll think of 

Erin: Princess Buttercup?

Cinnamon: no.

But it's, She has a very common name and it's on the tip of my tongue, but she's part of the whole, Arthur and his round table of knights story. and it's a funny name. It'll come to me. Anyway. Anywhos. No, but close you're getting closer as far as like the genre of names So yeah, there's that massive shift in your autonomic nervous system into defense mode aka fight or flight, right?

And so when we're defensive that means that we have just taken offense to somebody's behavior and now we're feeling Like we have to defend ourselves like what's wrong with you. What did I do to you? Right that age old story and like Arthur and the [00:07:00] Knights of the Round Table, like that age old story.

 So, then of course, now the person who came in and might have been mildly distracted, or, was in the middle of doing something else, they hear, what did I do to you? What's wrong with you? And now they feel attacked. And then they get defensive. And now we have two teams on defense both feeling offended and it creates this cycle.

And so what could happen is I've had a rough day. I come home. I don't greet you the way you anticipate me greeting you. And instead of Leaving yourself open and not, feeling personally attacked and like, Ooh, Erin, rough day. You okay? What can I do? Instead I'm like, what's your problem? you just walk in the door and you're already being an asshole.

And so my partner, in this scenario, you probably could have benefited from my support. And maybe a [00:08:00] little compassion and understanding, and instead now I've created a fight where there wasn't one. And the same thing can happen vice versa.

Erin: Yeah, and I think that's what the biggest point is in wanting to share this information with our listener today and, well, just in general, is that because often we're tired after work, often there's been some kind of stressful experience that's happening at an inconvenient time or it's back to back stuff happening, it is reasonable to say that you might walk in your home and have an exchange with your spouse or your kids or your parents or whomever that doesn't go very well.

So, the fact that there is an actual reason for it in addition to just the fact that you're really exhausted is something that feels really important to share because until, I don't know, a year ago, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as biological rudeness and I'm like, Oh my God, I do that all the time.

Cinnamon: And feel justified. 

Erin: Yeah, I'm like, your tone sucks. [00:09:00] Why do you sound like that? You sound like such a jerk. And then he's like, oh, really? And then it turns into this, whole thing. It's always my tone, he says. Always my tone. I'm like, yeah, because your tone sucks. But I don't have to do that.

Cinnamon: No. But it validates your experience like, my feelings are my feelings. Well now you know that your feelings aren't your feelings, it's a biological automation of your system, and it is going to take your wisdom. and effort to override that we can feel justified and right all the time and all we have is a bigger fight where, okay, I know where I'm going to go. So I'm going to have to override that.

Erin: Just keep my mouth shut? Because never in 13 years has he ever said, oh, you know what, hon? You're right. I'm sorry. That was a little snippy. Snippy. Never. So, why I keep thinking one of these days he's going to admit that [00:10:00] he's being snippy, and that's besides the point. The point is, Erin, your buttons are pushed for whatever reason, and there's many reasons why my buttons get pushed in that moment, and I don't have to take it.

Cinnamon: But either way, it turns into a biological of scenario. Mm It's not even like our partners are baiting us. It's our own bodies are baiting us to pick that fight because we already think the fight has been picked. And we're just defending ourselves in the fight. And the worst part of it is like what you, well, maybe not the worst part of it. It's all kind of difficult.

But when you're like, Oh, in 13 years, my husband's never said, you know what? Like, I'm going to check myself. I was a little bit snippy. No, because the same thing is happening to him. When you are like, your town. His biological rudeness is going off and he does not think that he came at you disrespectfully [00:11:00] or with a bad tone and He's just walking in the door saying hello and his bitchy wife can't even greet him and welcome him into his own home.

And so now he's defensive, right? Like it's so cyclical and it's where our bodies are designed to go because they're machines in that way. We have brains to be able to have the wisdom to override that and not take that bait all the time. Even if we feel right and in that moment. Because right and justified is biological.

Erin: Yeah. Well, I really like this. I'm just going to read 

Cinnamon: Please do.

Erin: I really like how this explanation set out there. So with biological rudeness, here is this great explanation. So our brains are wired to expect a bit of give and take with other people. It's like a handshake. You stick your hand out, you expect the other guy to shake it.

The social dance keeps our nervous system chill. Thanks to something called the ventral vagus, which Cinnamon [00:12:00] mentioned that, that the ventral vagus, that whole, she'll talk about the book in a second, but that's kind of where this was all born. But when someone ignores you or acts like a jerk, it's like they slapped you in the face instead.

Your nervous system freaks out and flips into defense mode faster than you can say road rage. This messes with your head, making you feel hurt and pissed off, like you've been personally attacked. This whole biological rudeness thing is a chain reaction. It starts when someone doesn't play nice, or you don't get the positive response you were anticipating, your brain the defense button, and BAM!

You're left feeling offended and ready to snap back. So, when communication breaks down, it's not just annoying, it's a biological disaster waiting to happen. Dun dun.

Cinnamon: I love that. I wish the little bit about the when you reach out your hand expecting a handshake and You get slapped in the face and said we're just a little closer because I think that's hilarious as [00:13:00] like you're like, hey buddies put it here And then somebody's like whap and you're like, yeah, that did not go like I was Anticipating.

Erin: No. But yeah, so what can you tell us about this Ventral Vegas and the little book that maybe you haven't spoken of here, but you spoke on it before we started?

Cinnamon: Yeah, so there's there's a dude His name's steven porge and he actually was doing research on Something completely Different like he is not in the mental health world, but if I'm remembering correctly, he, was speaking in a place, where Bessel van de Kolk heard him and he, and Bessel van de Kolk was like, wait a minute, I think we can apply this to mental health.

So basically he took Porge and his work and said, can you reformat this,For mental health because there's this great point of access for this [00:14:00] so steven porges wrote this book called like the Handbook to polyvagal theory and let me be real clear the original polyvagal theory book I could not read and the handbook.

Erin: Because it's hard?

Cinnamon:I could barely read better. So dude is Too smart for his own good and he doesn't know how to dumb anything down. in our, in our nervous system, our 10th cranial nerve, the vagus nerve is kind of the one that manages so much of our emotional state. And it runs from the top of our head down either side of our neck.

Erin: And then it goes and interweaves through our organs and ends at the tip of our buttholes. So It's like an exclamation point dot. Right. Right. Mm 

Cinnamon: mark, but you like, yes, you get the point. So basically when we get butterflies in our stomach, when we get nauseous, when [00:15:00] we're nervous, or when we're afraid, or,sometimes we get the hiccups at the most inopportune moments.

You have to think about this one thread that's running through our body that is reacting. And causing reactions when we are nervous or aka feeling threatened or scared or in defense mode. So it's going to cause things like gut sensitivities, hiccups,diarrhea, constipation, inflammation, brain fog,all of those things as it's going through our whole body.

So being able to manage that vagus nerve. is key to a lot of the problems that we have when it comes to, some of the biological and, mental or emotional ailments that we suffer with an activated, autonomic nervous system when we're in that fight or flight. So when we've got, two [00:16:00] people who truly believe that they are being offended, they are being personally attacked.

they're going to defend themselves because a spouse or a co worker or a friend isn't necessarily a grizzly bear and they may feel a little bit more comfortable fighting than they do fleeing in that situation or even fawning any of the other, responses that we can have in the game. state of our nervous system.

But if you've got two teams both identifying as being on the defense, if you think about it as a football analogy, it's really hard to make any forward motion, right? Like, if both teams. are feeling like they're on defense and perceiving that the other team has the ball, then there's actually no ball and nobody is going to win this argument.

It's just going to keep cycling. so I think that's why it's so important because [00:17:00] without knowing it, and sometimes we learn how to work around it, even if we don't know that there's this thing called biological rudeness or what goes into creating it, It's still, there's no good way out of it where there's going to be a clear winner.

Everybody loses in that game. And I think it's a huge, sabotage to relationships. Because as Kenny Mitchell talked about in his episode, we are not taught how to go home, and therefore we don't know how to teach our families how to welcome us home, and this is the shit that happens that makes things messy, and why we end up with kids and spouses who have, PTS like qualities, because they don't know who their partner or parent is gonna be when they get home.

Not because they're mad at them, but because they've had a rough shift.

Erin: Right. and the vagus nerve is something, too, that we can activate when we are under heightened levels of stress. So, I know, and I've touched on it before, [00:18:00] that the 4 7 8 breathing that I love, that I use 20 times a day, it's like scientifically proven that it taps into the vagus nerve, essentially, because the vagus nerve is part of the parasympathetic nervous system, And so when I think of parasympathetic nervous system, I think of a parachute like floating down. That's how I remember like which one is rest and digest and which one is you know, is not. And so I think, okay, I'm going to parachute down now by tapping into my vagus nerve of a parasympathetic nervous system by doing this four, seven, eight breathing.

So it has. It has the capabilities of giving us the butterflies or the queasies, but it also has the capabilities of calming us down and bringing us back down.

Cinnamon: By activating it or getting it back, I mean, think about it as, 

Erin: a realignment.

Cinnamon: what is it called? Afib, Afib, when your heartbeat isn't regular and it goes all over the place, your vagus nerve can have something similar when it's functioning [00:19:00] is, all over the place. It's part of activating it back to where it needs to be.

Erin: Yeah. Look at us.

Cinnamon: I'm like throwing out words like AFib. I'm so impressed 

Erin: yeah. Oh my God. They're probably listening like, no, no kidding.

Cinnamon: Yeah, so it's an AFib or Atrial Fibrillation is like that irregular rapid heart rhythm that we consider not a good thing. So if we consider our vagus nerve in a similar way, maybe not as what it does, but if you look at it on a chart, it's, in a, it's irregular. how it's operating. So you have to regulate it to get yourself back into parasympathetic, back into rest and digest. 

Erin: You're so smart. Smart and pretty.

Cinnamon: just going to say, Oh my God, you're so pretty. We, we know how to do this, right? We're like, here, let's [00:20:00] just flatter each other.

Erin: I know. really the key highlights here when it comes to biological rudeness and what's created is this emotional response of being hurt and then a personal narrative of being offended, like, I can't believe you responded like that. And your tone,

Cinnamon: Clutch my pearls!

Erin: right. So in turn. For me, I know it generates an aggressive reaction because I'm like, what the actual is your problem here? And so for me, it, I can't see it for most people. And obviously I'm not most people, but it seems like it would often cause an aggressive reaction.

Cinnamon: How could you not be, pissed off about that?

Erin: Like what's the alternative reaction? Like tears maybe, or no matter what, it's going to be more of a negative of reaction. reaction. one that's definitely, that's necessarily going to move the

Cinnamon: Unless there's that awareness and wisdom that kicks [00:21:00] in, it's like, oh, I haven't been around you in the last, you 8, 16, 24 hours. Whatever you're upset about, it's most likely not about me. So, I'm gonna ask, hey, are you okay? Is everything alright? Which we know if I ask, it's, I'm not asking if something's alright or if you're okay.

I'm asking, if you are aware how not okay you are. And if the answer is nothing, then, I used to be that person that would dig and dig and dig like tell me no if you're upset tell me and now I'm like Okay, I don't have a problem with you And if you're telling me you don't have a problem with me, then I'm going to assume that you're telling me the truth I am NOT gonna do well with those people like Nothing.

I'll be like, cool, and I'll just keep going. So and you know, that's manipulative behavior. But yeah, if you are the one with the problem, then you are the one [00:22:00] responsible for addressing it. If there is something that I've done or maybe you came home and you didn't like, that the dishes weren't in the dishwasher, I'll give you an opening if you want to tell me.

But if you say nothing and then you keep moving, I'm like, cool, peace out. I'm going to go do this. Cause I'm, to me, that's bait. I'm not going to engage in that because we're all adults and we're all responsible for, our own feelings and being able to articulate, our disturbances.

So that's how I'm able to work through that.

Erin: to me, Cinnamon is like a frickin Buddha with this crap, cause I'm like, how? Because, listen,

I know this stuff. Yeah, we can talk about the pool, but I know about this stuff. I, so, yeah, we're gonna tell you about the pool, don't worry, but know about this stuff, I've studied this stuff, I talk to people, I teach people about this stuff.

But when it comes to my own stuff [00:23:00] It all goes out the door. It all goes out the window. So if it feels we're presenting something that feels impossible, I want you to know that even I too struggle. With being aware, like, Oh, this is the biological rudeness kicking in. This is my defense mechanism.

Clearly I'm feeling threatened in some kind of way, shape or form. I'm afraid I'm going to lose something that I have or not get something that I want. And sometimes for me, it's just, I want my husband to be like, yeah, I had a really bad day and I'm scared or like whatever the thing is. Right. But I will never get that response.

He's always going to say Nothing's wrong, even though I'm like, you're like, is scrunched up, I'm getting better, I've just been like, okay. But some days I'm not some days. I'm like bullshit, know, I mean

Cinnamon: It's that squiggly line. Right, you know that squiggly line that like people believe that improvement is the straight Upward trajectory and it's not it's the loop de loop [00:24:00] and you can say Whatever you're saying about how you perceive me handling that but I'm also a squiggly line and I just might be further up the trajectory, but I've had my loop de lose and squiggles up until then.

The biggest thing that I love about this is it requires me to do nothing, right? I don't have to get mad. I don't have to feel uncomfortable in my body. I don't have to go be a detective and, try to pry something out of somebody that doesn't want to give something up. And it's just nice because now, if we want to talk about the pool, I just was like super chill, completely unbothered sitting back on the deck and I wasn't white knuckling it.

Erin: So put a pin 

Cinnamon: this. 

Erin: put a pin in it. We've got to rewind because theseguys don't so and I Decided last week on a hot 90 degree day in Cincinnati, Ohio 

that we were gonna bust out 98 [00:25:00] degrees so he said 98. Yeah. We're going to bust out this like five by eight inflatable pool and, you know, it up and just kind of and relax.

No big deal, right? You would think it's not a big deal, there is a big deal. of all, last year, Cinnamon put this pool in their grass, killed the grass and many of you probably can relate, like a no no for a lot of people. It's Well, she learned her lesson. And so this time we put it on cement patio that they have down on their main floor.

And so Cinnamon, I'll let you pick up from here.

Cinnamon: and we even put yoga mats down, right? Like we were on the concrete patio. We put the five yoga mats down to make sure that wasn't going to get scratched and,like it wasn't going to make a mess or anything. And this, I was acutely aware that the goal. Was [00:26:00] to get this up and filled in our bodies in the pool before my husband came home from work.

And because my husband is bougie and he likes the finer things. And for him, I believe that the idea of us having a blow up pool, that is visible to anyone, that may walk by, is Like poking his eye out with an ice pick because he works so hard to make, everything. He's very OCD. He likes everything put together and then to have this beautiful deck, this beautiful home, and then we've got a 30 blow up pool from Big Lots in the backyard is like nails on a chalkboard to him.

 you know that whole saying don't ask permission, apologize later, right? However that goes. So that was my goal and I did communicate that to you a little bit and like, [00:27:00] girl, we got to move, we got to get this done. you must have been changing your clothes and I was walking down the deck steps to go get in the pool.

And as I'm walking down, I see that my husband's car is parked under the deck and the door is open. And when I look at him, he is staring straight forward. And he has not even gotten a leg out of the car, 

Erin: even looking in your direction. 

Cinnamon: no, like he is just staring straight ahead fuming. And I was like, Hey babe. And he just looked at me and just paused for a minute and he's like, Hey, and then he looks back and straight ahead.

So I like get in the pool and I'm laying there and he gets out of the car and he starts to go upstairs and I'm like, how was your day? And he ignored me. And then I was like, are you okay? And he just paused and then he just kept going. So he 

Erin: Wait, which in hindsight. When you like look at it that way by you saying, are you okay? It's almost like, [00:28:00] uh, Screw you. We don't care that you're not okay. Yeah, like I knew Which now I look at them like yeah So when Ed walks in to the house and I see him I'm like, oh Dad's home. We're in trouble Which was even more of a slap in the face lemon juice in the paper cut to what you just said like you okay, darlin uh like So now we can laugh about it, but it's like, 

Cinnamon: we have been defiant here,

Erin: yeah, like a bunch of little five year olds. But the moral to the story

Cinnamon: wait. wait. Oh, no. you gotta finish what happened after you said, oh, dad's home.

Erin: Oh yeah. He did not even acknowledge my existence. he didn't look at my direction. I knew I was like, oops, I probably shouldn't have said that. 

Cinnamon: Yeah. But it's also, he's like, Your husband brother. So for him to ignore you is about the same severity of him ignoring me. It's not like, [00:29:00] Oh wow, there's this business partner in the house and he was like that. No, it's basically it's he treats her the same way as he treats me.

Erin: So this wife number two. The point is, one, had that been me, and my husband would have reacted that way, I probably would have let it take me out. Like, I think that I would have tried to have fun and stuff, but it would have bothered me. Even though I knew I would have known that it was going to bother him, and I would have known that I was going to get that response.

I would have, you know, gone into him getting an attitude. With me your husband did with you and then I would have responded like what's your problem? I would have automatically started defending myself. It's not that big of a deal. Why is this a big deal to you? We're allowed to have our fun. We work really hard So we want to rely like I would have gone into immediate defense even though I know 

Cinnamon: I know what his problem was.

Erin: Right. My response to Cinnamon later in the evening was how does this not affect you? [00:30:00] and cinnamon said

Cinnamon: He's not mad at me. This is not my problem. This has nothing to do with me. He has a story about what it means to have a blow up pool that cost 30 from Big Lots in his backyard. And that's what's creating those feelings. Nothing that I did. And that is where that understanding of the behavior chain comes in.

Knowing that the activating event of you and I putting up that pool is not what generated him getting angry. The story about. What it meant to have that pull up is what made him angry. So later that night after we have our fun I could have went to him and created another opportunity be like, Why are you acting like a dick?

Do you want to talk about this? And it would have probably evolved into a fight Right, but instead I just kept my distance. You and I had fun in the pool and Then he came and found us and what [00:31:00] did he say? Hey guys, you 

Erin: Hi, guys. Yeah, made us some real damn good smoked chicken wings. They were so good. It was a peace offering. He said, I'm not mad anymore through chicken wings, which is my. number one favorite thing to eat in the world.

Cinnamon: and he's 

Erin: I think, right. So Cinnamon's touched on a couple times the behavior chain and if you haven't heard it, it's episode 50.

It's called Emotional Forensics. It's a really cool episode and it explains all of this, what we're talking about today with biological rudeness, the story that Cinnamon and I just shared, all of that, it all folds in together. It's all part of a bigger system, which we are going to get into more on a different episode, but.

If you want to rewind time and go check that one out, too. There's a lot of good information there.

Cinnamon: I Love that and that's the you know, when people ask me How can you sit through that or how can you do that? It's not always about just being able to change the my [00:32:00] behavior, it's, I have to know a little something, something to be able to do that, So knowing that there's this biological rudeness that I get to override because it's, animalistic.

And it's not capitalizing on my, human brain or that, you show me, the behavior chain and I'm like, Oh, I actually have more control. of my feelings than the story that I've been telling myself is. So you didn't make me mad. You can't make me mad. Only I can make me mad. if you were the one that made me mad, that meant that I may have to wait for you to make me happy.

And most people that are intentionally trying to upset us, they're not going to circle back around for that. So recognizing that the thing happened, I attached a story to it, and then I had a feeling. I was like, so if I change the story, about the activating event, then I get to give myself back that [00:33:00] power that I gave away by saying you did a thing and I had no control over my emotions other than to just get angry and so the irony of this and I'm sure Ed would love to know that we're using him as a 

Erin: Example?

Cinnamon: the, the cadaver in the classroom kind of thing, is the next day you and I were back out in the pool.

The next day you and I were back out in the pool. He came home and was chipper every day. Didn't have a reaction. Saturday. So now Erin is leaving. Erin has left town. Pool's still up. Cinnamon's in it. I said, Hey babe, you want to jump in and take a little dip with me? And he's like, not right now. And he giggled.

And then Sunday. It was up still things are going great. He's not upset or anything. And then last night, or two nights ago, he came home and Ben and I were outside. [00:34:00] And so I had to grab Ben so I didn't, hit him while he was pulling in the driveway. He's like, what are you guys doing? And I'm like, I'm just doing a little pool maintenance.

And he started laughing really hard. And so when he got to the back, what he saw was I had emptied the water. I had deflated the pool and I was using the shop vac with a scrub brush to like, suck out the dirt and the gross stuff that was on the bottom. And Then, yesterday, I filled it back up, so when he got home, I was in it again, and he walked by, and he's like, oh my god, you are so serious, because I had the chlorine floaty thing in, and I was like, and the cover comes on the 26th.

And all he said, he's laughing at this point, all he said was, you know when the landscapers come on the 5th? You're going to have to take it down. And I was 

Erin: Isn't it the 5th of August?

Cinnamon: the 5th of August. Yes. And I was like, yeah, and they're going to be here for a week. And then I'll put it back up because my pool stays open after Labor Day.[00:35:00] 

And he just laughed. and I asked him last night, I was like, Hey, are you going to get in with me? And he's like, not now, but I will before. The end of summer. I'm like, okay. So, nothing changed except for his interpretation in the story that he had about what it meant 

Erin: Mm hmm. 

Cinnamon: about me putting that pool up.

Erin: Yeah. And that is one of those situations where I was like, do I really want to die on this mountain? 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Cinnamon: keep his cingulate cortex wide open. Yes. Regulated. Activated to the proper, Nobby turn. Yeah, so I think we actually did a real good job talking about biological rudeness giving some great examples and Because this is gonna be one of our shorter episodes, but I would love to have people Send us comments Even if it's on our links and social media what you think of this But I do have two books that I want to make sure that I [00:36:00] mentioned and then we put on You The resource list.

And the first one, cause like I said, Stephen Porges,easy guide to polyvagal theory is not easy. here is a super easy one. It's called activate your vagus nerve by Dr. Nawaz Habib. that's N A V A Z. H A B I B. and it's a pretty little cover, but it's called activate your vagus nerve, unleash your body's natural ability to heal.

And it's a super simple read and it gives you tools to be able to activate or regulate your vagus nerve. nerve, to kind of manage. And some of the things that it addresses is the gut sensitivities, inflammation, brain fog, autoimmunity issues, anxiety, and depression. And then there is a book that, It's endorsed by Stephen Porge, PhD, because he writes the forewords, but it's by somebody else.

And it's called Accessing the Healing Power of the Vagus Nerve, Self [00:37:00] Help Exercises for Anxiety, Depression, Trauma, and Autism. And it's a little thicker. A little more expensive, but if after you take on Activate Your Vagus Nerve by Dr. Habib, then the Stanley Rosenberg book might be like a level 201 kind of read after that 101 read.

 And I do think that when we have this information available to us, when we know what's actually happening in our body, and we don't just think it's all. like truth with a capital T that we're right that somebody is offensive or we have a justifiable reason to be defensive that helps us make different choices and then when we have tools like How to activate your vagus nerve, then it can be something that not only you do in that acute moment when you're stressed out, like I used to, and still do, tell my, [00:38:00] drivers, when they're off duty, like, I mean, you've got people driving these big ass fire trucks and ambulances and ladders and all that.

And then you've also got all of your patrol folks who are not always great at being patrol civilian drivers. I'm like, if you see anyone driving down 71 or 75 tapping on their collarbone, you know, they're one of Cinnamon's people, because that will help you regulate that vagus nerve. But it also helps just to, do it as a maintenance tool.

because the idea is that if you continuously check in with that vagus nerve and make sure that you're being proactive about keeping it regulated, you're less likely to have that switch flipped.

Erin: Yeah. And I do want to say that we've been at this thing for over a year now and We have heard from a lot of people, about how useful all of this information has been for them, how it's helped them in their self discovery and their healing process. And as [00:39:00] a result, we've had people from all over the country reach out and ask us, well, how can I work with you?

Or I want to come and be one of your clients. And the tricky part of. All of this is the fact that we are clinicians licensed in Ohio and Kentucky, so it keeps us really, really, limited. So, we did mention during the break that we have some exciting stuff that we've been working on, and we finally got some stuff formulated and figured out what we wanted to do, and we are excited to share with you that we are getting ready to launch a brand new brandbrand new nationwide program called Copper Warrior, and it's a 12 week intensive program for folks that are interested in coming and doing the hard work and making the changes in their life and healing from some past stuff and learning how to adapt and learning how to, create new tools in their life and learning how to understand themselves a little bit better.

All of this is kind of infused into this 12 week program that if you do the thing and [00:40:00] you do it hard, like we are there to present this information with you and work with you on, there's just no physical way you could walk away unchanged. So if Copper Warrior is something that sounds really cool to you, we're going to be ramping it up and talking about it a lot more.

Please feel free to reach out. You can email us at info at after the tones drop. com to get more information. And in addition, there will be some stuff that we're going to start loading on the website, on after the tones drop. com. And we are really looking forward to being able to kind of open this up to the nation, to be able to work with you and help you in the next phase of your journey and your recovery. 

Cinnamon: yeah, all of that, like, all of what Erin said, and this is, been the product of a labor of love and listening. We've listened to folks say, how can we work with you? How can we learn from you? And we've basically [00:41:00] taken the culmination of the things that we've learned, that we understand are critical pieces of information, and developed this hardcore coaching program where like Erin said, if you commit and do the work, you're going to get results and.

Your results are going to be directly reflective of your commitment to the process, but we give you access to everything that you're going to need to do the work. We're walking through this cheering you on every step of the way. If we didn't have as good of boundaries and lessons learned. We would have thought we could, do this for you, but we know that we can't.

But short of doing the heavy lifting for you, we want you to succeed. And we know that for a lot of people, therapy isn't what they need. And that's perfectly fine or therapy isn't what they want. This [00:42:00] is not a therapeutic program. It's a coaching program. And, as we continue to get closer to our launch date, you'll get to hear a lot more from us about what that's going to look like, but this is, yeah, it's really cool. I'm really excited about it.

Erin: really excited. I know we're such dorks, but in for all the right ways. So yeah. And if you're appreciating what you've been hearing and want to continue to support After the Tones Drop, you can always support us on buy, buy me a coffee, buy us a coffee, buy me a coffee. Why am I brain farting on buy me a coffee or on Patreon, either way.

And if nothing else, please share this. Podcast with people that you think could learn and grow from it, because that is exactly what it's for as a resource. And as the kids say, smash that button, smash that like button now or follow button and, and make sure you're following us. So you get all the alerts when we [00:43:00] drop a new episode, which is every Wednesday at 4 AM bright and early.

Cinnamon: for you 12, 12 hour shifters, getting ready to head in. And as much as we love doing this, this is not a monetary endeavor as far as like, this is not where we're going to get rich, but we would love to cover our expenses. and keep doing the thing that we love so much. And I would not have believed it until I was one of the podcasters.

Cause I think we hear it a lot on podcasts is even if you did, a 12 donation, a buck a month, like that adds up. And, it makes a huge difference for us. it'd be great if it covers some of our expenses, but it's also a morale booster that, folks are really getting a value out of this. It's like that whole Sally Field, this is where we're going to have a generational breakdown where Sally Field wins an Oscar and she's like, you like me, you really like [00:44:00] me.

Like it does. So even if it's, A dollar a month, or five dollar one time. It's still that idea that people care enough about what we're doing that they want to show their appreciation and they want to contribute to the continuation of it. It feels good in our hearts.

Erin: It really does. And as a result of all of that, we do want to give a shout out to our very first contributor, Kim 

Cinnamon: Woo 

Erin: was our first person to buy us a coffee. We really appreciate her and her comment with it was, your podcast has helped me so much. I no longer feel like I am alone. Thank you.

And that's the point. Hell yeah, that is the exact point. So Kim, we love you wherever you are in the country and the world. I don't know where you're listening from, but thank you for supporting After the Tones Drop. I'm so glad that you found value because sister, you are not alone. And that is the whole purpose behind this is [00:45:00] so folks can start to hear their story and know that they are no longer in this by themselves.  

Cinnamon: Like our friend Kenny says, there are too many of us to ever feel alone.

Erin: there are too many of us to ever feel alone. Absolutely. So, we shall see you next week. Enjoy that kiddie pool, Cinnamon. Bye.