Emergency Attachments: The Impacts of Attachment Styles on First Responders

EP46: Emergency Attachements

Erin: [00:00:00] All right it's time for part two of our attachment style series that we're putting on for you and if you didn't catch last week we want to invite you to go ahead and pause and go back to the last episode and get caught up on part one so that this one makes a little more sense to you because otherwise it's gonna feel like it's coming out of left field unless you are familiar with attachment styles already.

Cinnamon: Like you just opened up a book in the middle and then started reading

Erin: exactly. But as promised last week, today we're going to focus on more specific to the first responder and how attachment styles play a part in their leadership and their relationships and their lives in general and how that might show up in the first responder world.

Cinnamon: yeah, we have a lot of amazing guests we haven't stumbled upon a guest that we haven't just fallen in love with and Been so impressed by their wisdom and recovery and what they've offered but this is when we get [00:01:00] to talk about what we know best because As non first responders, the conversations that, we bring on our guests, they talk about, we don't have that perspective, but this is where we can share what we have learned over the course of our work and be able to offer it up to our listeners, to you, to be able to make some sense out of.

How you ended up being where you are and help unpack that and I think any of the educational stuff that we offer up is always going to be part of somebody's recovery This information is always going to be helpful to make Who you've become or who you are make sense to get to the healthiest most authentic version of yourself So yeah,

Yeah. And so let's just review a little bit about. Last week, and what we did say, specifically what the attachment styles are, [00:02:00] and so we've got secure, that's pretty obvious, we Everything went well in childhood. Things are good.

Erin: And then we get to the insecure attachment style, and there are three kind of breakdowns of what that looks like.

Cinnamon: So we have the anxious, we have the avoidant, and then we have the disorganized that we touched on underneath the insecure attachment style. when we talk about these, regardless of which of the insecure attachment styles we're talking about, It helps make sense of things. if you've had this experience, then of course, this is how you relate to other people. And at the same time, it also makes just as much sense to go clear the opposite direction, from avoidant and then.

Anxious, but then we have the disorganized one where it's like we take the highlight reel [00:03:00] of both and combine it into One where you're getting almost the most difficult of both attachment styles Rolled into one

Erin: Yeah, and as we've discussed before, first responders are human beings too, so you guys are not exempt or immune to anything else that we deal with. And as we've touched on before too, often first responders get into this role based on how their childhoods played out. so we're going to really highlight and look into how.

These attachment styles show up in your personal life, and in your career.

Cinnamon: right? We have the occupational impact and then we have the Personal impact of, marriages, parenting, friendships, intimacy, in terms of like dating relationship. and we know that there is. a very strong correlation between childhood adversity and first [00:04:00] responder occupations and how, one frequently flows into the other.

So it's almost like when we were looking at the general population, we're more likely to probably find the insecure attachments in the first responder world. simply because We know that folks like to, oftentimes become the person they didn't have or they had a person show up for them and they want to emulate that.

so as we talk about each of these, we'll talk what it may look like in, in terms of just around the firehouse or playing team in general. But then I think it's also really important as you're looking to promote, And if your leadership is evolving in your department, that you also understand how attachment styles affect leadership, because that way it's not just Having an effect on you or maybe your crew or even, your patients or who you come in contact with that way. But it is also now, once you're in a leadership role, it has a trickle down 

Erin: [00:05:00] Absolutely. 

Cinnamon: and with that comes power. And so we wanna make sure that those of you that have a stronghold in a leadership position or are budding leaders that this is information that you have to make sure that you can do the best job possible, and be able to dig through, find out, discover those blind spots that we all tend to

Erin: Right. To make you the most effective leader there is.

Cinnamon: Right.

Erin: okay, in this fluke rare chance, what would secure attachment look like in the role of a first responder?

Cinnamon: So those are going to be the folks that are more likely to work well independently. They're also going to work well in a team, Like typically you have someone that does better in one or the other, whereas the secure attachment, they have the ability to be independent as well as, be team oriented to be able to foster cooperation and effective communication, whether that's just.

on the road, or if it's actually [00:06:00] in a emergency situation. They're also going to be able to adapt a lot more. because they have that flexibility where when something is going one way and all of a sudden it hooks a right real quick, they're going to be able to, face that stress, manage emotions, and still make sound decisions.

And because they have that solid foundation, they are going to have just a natural integration of that resiliency that we always are talking

Erin: Now, what if I'm a leader? How does it affect me or support me as a leader being in a secure attachment style?

Cinnamon: So first, we're gonna see really good communication out of those folks, right? They're going to be empathetic. They're going to be open to dialogue. They're going to be able to handle conflict and still regulate their emotions to be able to stay calm, even when other people are getting worked up. they also have that collaborative mindset.

They're not going to be the people that are having to [00:07:00] wield their control to ensure that everybody knows who's in charge. They have that level of self confidence where they can invite others to have a say and it be team oriented collaborative work that can encourage everyone To feel like they belong and have a role and not only just a role, but a significant important

 Like they can take ownership. So it's that whole leader's creating other leaders. Yeah, so if you want to be a mentor, this is where you want to get to, right? Where you're not threatened by other people's good ideas, that you're comfortable, I like the phrase, and we use it a lot, servant leader, right? Where you're not having to thrust your authority out there As a fill in for confidence,

Erin: Yeah. So how does it show up if I'm in the anxious attachment style? As a first responder, what might be some ways that I exhibit that that's kind [00:08:00] of where I fall?

Cinnamon: obviously taking from that word anxious and what we talked about a little bit last week, we're going to see more hypervigilance and we know that's a common symptom among everyone, but it may show up before anything that we would normally aligned to as a cause of hypervigilance. You're going to see that constant anticipation of threats.

And again, I'm not necessarily talking about an emergency scene. I'm talking about just that day-to-Day duty where, it can easily look like if I walk into the kitchen of the firehouse. Are you talking about me? it also. is going to, you know, when you think about like corrections officers, where they are in a gray box locked in and already have to be hypervigilant, you're just going to see an even higher, constant anticipation of those potential threats.

They're also going to be the people that need that constant reassurance, [00:09:00] where they May, say, Hey boss, did you see I did that? Or, Hey boss, whatever you want me to do, I'll do that. they want to make sure that their colleagues or their superiors are aware of their contribution and they're always like looking for that validation.

And then it's also going to have an impact on their decision making. So when I'm having anxiety and my job is about safety. now I have anxiety about safety, and it's not only just for me, it's also for you, my co worker, and then depending on the circumstance, it may be for the civilian or the community member.

And anxiety is going to, do the things that we talk about and shut down that prefrontal cortex, and it's going to impact our decision making because we're coming from that state of fight or flight rather than grounded in, your logic and the executive functioning of your brain.

Erin: Yeah, so if I'm a leader in that space, and [00:10:00] I am in that constant, need for approval zone, That doesn't make for a very effective leader. I almost think that would make for more of a wishy washy or maybe not as respected or, I'm trying to pick my words cautiously because I'm not trying to talk down upon anyone, but obviously when we think of leadership, we really want our leaders to show up confident and.

To be able to command that space and be the voice for folks. So how is that need for approval, affect the leader, like the chief, for example, and then trickle down into the rest of the department?

Cinnamon: I think most of our listeners will, Be able to understand the idea that if your leader Doesn't appear to be self assured and confident It's going to be concerning because i'm supposed to be able to look to my leader And help guide my decision making and what i'm going to do If we have an anxious attachment style and we see when they're, line folks, they're [00:11:00] constantly seeking that reassurance from their teammates and their superiors.

Well, that is not going to stop just because they get into a leadership role. There's still going to be that need for approval. They're still going to be looking for validation, but now it's coming from the people that they're leading. And I think that that's different between saying, I'm really proud that my guys trust me or they think that I am doing a good job.

This is. I don't feel that way and I need that validation and approval from my team. It also can lead into a sensitivity to feedback and they may fear criticism. It may be harder to have a constructive criticism based conversation because they are going to filter everything that they get in that feedback as negative, negative, negative, negative. You're not good enough.

Erin: So it does make it really tricky. And, One of the things that I think we hear so much that [00:12:00] folks really dislike in this job Because there does have to be so much competency Even at every position. There's no position that you can be incompetent and It doesn't cause a safety concern when we start seeing micromanagement

I don't think anybody loves being micromanaged, but our folks our first responders you all you really don't like Micromanagement and so it's going to show up as that anxious need to control and the effort.

Cinnamon: The goal ultimately is to alleviate their own anxiety and to eliminate the possibility of potential mistakes, but that doesn't leave a lot of room for people to develop and grow. And it also can feel like somebody is breathing down your neck all the time.

Erin: Yes, and I'm sure we've all had a boss in some capacity that shows up like that. so if we're going to shift into more of this [00:13:00] avoidant attachment style, this one's interesting to me as far as in this particular context in the first responder world, because obviously the people that we deal with often. have been avoiding for a long time you know, avoiding their feelings, avoiding talking, avoiding, lots of things like that, that might improve

Cinnamon: avoiding admission that there's a problem.

Erin: Exactly. So how does this avoidant attachment style show for

Cinnamon: I think when we're looking at anxious attachment style, there are so many behaviors tied into that that are very obvious, and that can be off-putting and can get on folks' nerves really. And so avoidant doesn't show up exactly like that. It is a little bit different. So you're going to see those people as more independent, which.

Who doesn't love somebody who can work independently? Like, isn't that on most employee evaluations? Their ability to self motivate [00:14:00] or to work independently without, direction. that is also, that's also an effort to not have to rely on anybody else. to get a job done, which can be really tricky when you work on cruise.

there's also that emotional distance. This job results in a lot of moments when what I would say, like you end up showing your underpants, right? Like you can be a little more caught off guard. something can happen and it can be, disrupting to think, Oh my gosh, somebody just saw me. You know kind of like panic or whatever it is. So we keep that emotional distance and these might be the folks that are a little bit harder to get to know And they don't have an easy time Expressing vulnerability which I don't want that to be the ride or die thing in avoidant attachment because let's be honest Vulnerability is a bit of a challenge across the board and then the last one is again something that we see [00:15:00] frequently And so this is really not just that baseline first responder, challenge, but it's like upping that ante of having a really difficult time seeking support to be able to say, Hey, I'm struggling.

 And that may look like even if somebody doesn't want to reach out to a peer support or a therapist or, go talk to their boss, they may. Normally, go just talk to their friends and in the avoidant attachment style, there are really no relationships that are super duper safe. So they're going to have difficulty across the board, seeking, out that support that they may need. 

Erin: Or knowing When it's time to ask, I wonder, you know. 

Cinnamon: Because when people are emotionally distant, it makes it even more difficult to approach them and say, Hey buddy, it looks like you're struggling. there any way that I can help or something on your mind?

Cinnamon: They do a real good job keeping people away.

Erin: absolutely. Yes. [00:16:00] So when we're looking at more of the disorganized, which is just kind of like a little mesh of both of avoidant and anxious, how does that show up? 

Cinnamon: remember, this is the attachment style that takes, some of the more challenging qualities out of both categories. So you're going to have a lot of mixed responses, which creates a little bit of unpredictability. So they may, go back and forth between, seeking connection and also distancing themselves, which makes it really hard to figure out how to interact with them.

They also may be risk adverse, So risk aversion is something that they tend to do stay safe and that may be around a fear of harm or fear of rejection. And the last thing we want first responders to be is risk adverse when the risk is necessary. It does benefit them when we're oftentimes seeing a lot of excessive risk taking, and risk taking being part of what, shows up in [00:17:00] terms of post traumatic stress.

And then the last one, would be the impact On their decision making and that could look challenging because they have a difficult time trusting others and that can impact their collaboration and it also can be difficult to make decisions That are necessary to make when you're trying to make it independently.

yes, they do have the good piece of the independence. Not everything in this job or these jobs, requires independence. And in fact, it requires a lot more teamwork, and that can be, challenging.

Erin: Got it.

Cinnamon: And as far as leadership, you're going to see again, those mixed responses. they may be trying to be like, Hey, buddy, you know, I'm the supervisor. Let's all hang out and get to know each other. And then the next day you may be anticipating that same like friendliness, but then you find that there is more of an emotional distance that you didn't experience the day before. They may be a little more standoffish [00:18:00] and it's going to create confusion.

On the part of the people that you're supervising, like, you know, they don't know if to take a step forward or take a step back. It makes it more difficult to understand how to approach someone. because I may approach someone the exact same way two days in a row, and they may give me completely different responses.

 and then I think one of the big ones, especially in this job, is they're gonna have challenges in trust, and I think that having a challenging time trusting others, that's going to play into being able to, collaborate, to play team, as far as like delegation, it's gonna make that challenging, and when there's a difficult time trusting thing, You're also putting out in the world an energy that maybe you're not completely trustworthy.

Or that I may be able to trust you to drive a city engine, but I'm not gonna trust you, to get my kids home after baseball [00:19:00] practice if both of our kids play in the same league. Right,

Erin: So, if I'm a leader, what impacts do attachment styles have in being an effective leader?

Cinnamon: if we're looking at the qualities that we want in an effective leader and then compare them to some of the shortcomings that we see come up naturally in attachment styles, you're going to see the impact play out in team morale, Because that is about building community. It's about trust. It's about being able to feel secure that you can lean on somebody else.

And so you might be a member of a team, but you're not completely in, but you're also maybe not completely out, maybe a little more disorganized. And so the old Sesame Street, which one of these things is doing their own thing, which one of these things just doesn't belong. Like that attachment style piece can set somebody apart from even if nobody is like, Oh, I bet that's a disorganized attachment guy.

Like you could just feel [00:20:00] that vibe. It's also going to come up in conflict and conflict resolution. How people feel about conflict, whether they're afraid of it, whether they think it's natural, whether they're trying to avoid it, whether they, get super butthurt when they've been confronted about something that can cause problems.

It also is going to affect even like something as, important when we're looking at team and organization and building an agency is innovation. If I don't feel safe. Throwing out an idea because I'm afraid it'll get rejected or somebody will say, Who the hell are you to think that you can contribute like this?

That's gonna shut that down And we're also gonna see innovation. Somebody may have a great idea But they're so afraid that it's gonna be rejected that they just keep it inside swallow it Don't tell anybody and I've even talked to people they're like, oh, yeah, I have a proposal It's been sitting in my computer for two years.

Erin: I'm like why? If you have a potential solution for your agency, why aren't you [00:21:00] sharing it? Oh, I just don't know That kind of thing. We're also going to see it in and that's all that's really important. then we need to be looking at someone's ability to self reflect, right? If we do that personal assessment, we're going to see things, and others that we may not see in ourselves because we do have these blind spots, because the way that we tend to interact, we operate off of this is the one way to interact, or this is the one way to see this situation.

Cinnamon: and they can't be open enough to recognize that here's an alternative way of seeing this. It's also going to Play a part in how you coach and how you receive feedback. You know, how you feel about criticism, how you feel about, being judged. Are you worried about being rejected? Are you worried about,a conflict that makes you uncomfortable?

 we can see those challenges when we're asking somebody to maybe institute a more adaptive behavior and they can't get past the fact that they were told what [00:22:00] they were doing wasn't the most effective option and they take it very personally or somebody Doesn't necessarily know how to save those things sensitively, so they can be heard in a way that, cultivates the emotional well being and encouragement of the individuals. I think those are the big ones that I feel like are probably most important that you can see across the board, regardless of what kind of first responder you are, as well as what role in the agency you might play.

Erin: So that basically highlights several things within the occupational side, but then we're going to get into more of the relationship side, obviously, the folks that we work with, we are in relationship with. more of a generalized relationships versus an intimate relationship. So how does secure attachment show up as far as the impacts, in relationships?

Cinnamon: just as you may imagine, the secure attachment is going to usually result in healthier relationships, [00:23:00] whether it's, with, A peer or a spouse that secure attachment style is going to contribute to their ability to effectively communicate to provide emotional support and also to feel comfortable and confident asking for it, as well as the ability to partner up and manage or navigate stress together.

 Cinnamon: when we're starting to see in relationship patterns, whether somebody is, insecure about their contribution or somebody is like wanting to keep their cards a little closer to the chest, it will play out in how they can navigate that stress together. It's also going to show up in. the adaptability, They're going to be more flexible when we're talking about some other things. We use that phrase, cognitive flexibility. It's the idea that this was my plan and then it went this way and I've watched people be able to do this in the [00:24:00] job, but but they can't translate that to at home.

And so to be able to maintain. That strong connection with their spouse. they've got to be flexible. They've got to be able to adapt to new situations. They can't be so rigid that they honestly a, become a pain in the ass to kind of like work with and so you end up having to work around them. 

Erin: But that seems to make sense to me because in relationships we have so much more to lose. There's that connection on a much deeper level than with our peers that might be easy to kind of ebb and flow. But when it comes to something that's intimate and there's a lot of skin in the game, literally and figuratively, I can see, couldn't not, um, I can see why that would be more challenging to actually be adaptable in those settings.

Cinnamon: Well, and the, one thing that I see around adaptability that to me is so heartbreaking. [00:25:00] is when somebody doesn't have that ability to be flexible, to shift gears, to change directions on a dime, and they really, really want to. And they are, like, trying, and they just can't wrap their head around it, and their spouses are, getting frustrated with them, and they are just like, how do you make this look so easy?

I don't know how to bend my brain that way, and to me there's a piece of it where somebody is just unaware, but then when somebody is aware and does not know how to get to that place of changing something that's in their blueprint. And then they, struggle because they really want to make those changes. 

Erin: I definitely can relate to that. So what about anxious attachment? What are we looking at for that one? In relationships?

Cinnamon: again, we're looking at the difficulty with communication, And when we use that phrase stage [00:26:00] five clinger, we're usually talking about dating or romantic relationships, right? So to have that struggle with anxiety and rejection, but then you add on to it, now I'm worried about maybe my spouse's safety while they're out doing their job.

they're probably going to be, checking in frequently or seeking that reassurance. It also may look like not only just about somebody's well being, but we have a lot of infidelity comes out of, post traumatic stress or cumulative stress. so then you have spouses like doubling down on the phone calls and the seeking assurance and wanting to know where you are, which can be very disruptive, but also completely understandable.

And it's kind of like, yeah, well, this is part of the deal. Like you get to keep your spouse and you also get to answer the phone more. 

Erin: [00:27:00] Definitely.

Cinnamon: we're also going to look at just the impact on somebody's emotional well being. the work can exacerbate anxieties and that's going to impact the emotional well being of both partners and it's going to, impact the interactions that we have at home.

And I feel like this has come up a lot lately where I talked to so many folks who they're struggling with managing their own, emotional wellbeing and they're watching the impact that it's having on their spouse or on their kids. And that's what they need help with.

They're like, I don't want to be that way. And I don't understand why in that moment, that's how I feel, or that's how I behave. Because as soon as the moment passes, I'm filled with regret. 

Erin: Mm hmm.

Cinnamon: and I also think that anxious attachment is going to need that emotional support more that reassurance from their partner and Recognizing that you are both coping with the job, right?

You don't have to be doing the job to be coping with the job [00:28:00] and the unpredictability of it and you know, I don't think anyone ever plans to send their partner off to work and not have them come 

Erin: No. 

Cinnamon: but it's a possibility every single day. And I know that can die down the longer you're doing it, and it can get a little more rote.

So when you have somebody that has that anxious attachment, they may need more support than somebody that starts to normalize the risk of the... 

Erin: Yeah. Well, I'm not even a first responder and my husband does travel a lot in the summer, and I even notice myself being in that space of anxious attachment when he travels because I have this rule, like, you don't get to leave the house mad especially if you're gonna be gone for a couple days.

Like this can't be the last thing that we say or do with each other. So pretend like you like me, and then you can leave. that might be selfish, but that's the only way that I feel like I can feel confident in sending him out the door. So, yeah, that makes sense. 

Cinnamon: and [00:29:00] even, right now, my husband is out of town for work, and my whole routine is different,I'm usually the one that's traveling, he doesn't usually travel for work, and he seems to be perfectly fine with me gone. his routine doesn't change up that much, where it makes me anxious.

 I don't even need to know that he's okay. It's just remembering, like, all of the things that he would normally do that I don't have to think about on a day to day basis, making sure all the doors are locked, But when you are afraid that you're gonna Drop a ball, then you're gonna keep running through that

Erin: Yeah. Now what about when you have that avoidant attachment style? Let's touch on avoidant 

Cinnamon: So again, that issue of independence is gonna come up and one of the things that I think is important in a relationship is to feel needed and necessary. And when you are in a relationship with somebody who has an avoidant attachment, Like I said last episode, they would rather die [00:30:00] than tell anyone they have a need.

And so, it's kind of like, where is there space for me in this relationship if my partner never has a need? Well, no one never has a need. It's just how someone presents things and so to be able to express having a need is going to be difficult and that's ultimately going to create emotional distance.

 also maybe even some questions about maybe you love me and you want me but at the end of the day, do you need me? And that can, make someone question that relationship. There's also part of the result of avoiding emotions is that we don't understand them. So if we know how to just shut it off and feel like we don't care, then yeah, it's going to make it more challenging to understand why somebody else feels the way that they do.

 I have the ability to shut it off [00:31:00] and to not be mad or to not be this or that, why can't you just do that? And that's a, an unreasonable expectation.

Erin: Yeah. And, on the flip side, too, if I'm experiencing my partner or my best friend or whomever constantly being avoidant, then I might feel like I don't matter, that Whatever might be coming up for me is not important or relevant, where they're just like, No, I can just shut it off and not attach to it.

Whereas, for me, specifically, it's like, I gotta get to the resolution, immediately. And so then I interpret it as, you don't care. But really, it's more avoidant attachment style.

Cinnamon: Man, do you ever have days where you wish your best friend was a little more avoidant? Are you cool with how anxious he or she may 

Erin: I don't know who we could possibly be talking about. Yeah. But also, I'm glad that we operate the same because

Cinnamon: It does. 

Erin: there is no question, right?

Cinnamon: We [00:32:00] understand. Yeah, so I think that also can be a little bit more of an answer to a question that we haven't even asked but would make sense is do people of attachment styles what is it birds of a feather flock together? 

Erin: Mm hmm. Like, are you more likely to be in relationship with someone who has the same attachment style?

Cinnamon: And yeah, that's I don't really know what that is. I don't know because you and I have a fabulous relationship and we are similar that way. Whereas my husband and I are probably very different attachment styles and that works out because there's a balance, 

Erin: Mm hmm. 

Cinnamon: so yeah, I think it doesn't really always matter what your attachment style is and what your partner's attachment style is when we're looking at whether or not a relationship can be successful. It's how committed are you to navigating through some of those challenges that come 

Erin: Yeah, and I wonder too if it's [00:33:00] like the context of the relationship because my husband and I are the same as you and yours. I definitely fall along anxious and he falls along avoidant for sure. 

Cinnamon: We married the same man. 

Erin: yes, we did in a lot of ways. I know that that irritates the piss out of me, and I know that I irritate the piss out of him. It's interesting how 

Cinnamon: it's like why can't you even,

Erin: uh huh,

Cinnamon: right? Because your perspectives are so different.

Erin: right. So now we can cover the, disorganized attachment. 

Cinnamon: the disorganized 

Yeah. it's almost like if you take, either you and your husband as a couple, or me and my husband as a couple, and we make that into one person, that's that disorganized attachment because there is both that avoidance while there's also that fear or anxiety. so you're going to again end up with those mixed responses, which it can, oscillate between connection with [00:34:00] drawing, connection with drawing, it's going to lead to unpredictable responses to stress, or even just to everyday stuff, which can make it harder to communicate.

predict and plan and to know what you can expect out of somebody. If I ask you, can you watch the kids? well, I go do this and you say yeah, that's fine. And then the next day I ask the same thing and you're like, can't you just take them with you? Like I want to sleep. it makes it really hard to decide, like, what do I need to do?

Cause, I don't know what kind of day it is to what version of that person I'm gonna get. it's gonna cause challenges in trust, because it doesn't require anybody in the relationship to do anything for there to be a distrusting partner. And then when you actually have something that happens in a relationship that challenges the trust, now again, we're just doubling down on something that's really difficult already.

Erin: Yeah.

Cinnamon: And then I would say lastly, it's going to have an effect [00:35:00] on how as a couple you make decisions. so one may fear the harm of rejection and it may influence their ability to make. decisions in the relationships, especially during times of stress. And I think like a bare bones example of that is the very common universal marital debate of what are we having for dinner or where are we going for

dinner? I know this is a battle all the time in my house And it's like one of us might be wanting to gift the other one the choice and the other one doesn't want to appear selfish Or doesn't want to say a restaurant and then the other person was like, ah, but not that right? So it's like, you know, I'm open for anything.

I'm just hungry. I could eat whatever so we start to see the head butting when it comes to, no, you go ahead. No, you go ahead. No, you, somebody walk through the damn door.

Erin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just [00:36:00] wonder where Relationships, and we did speak into marriages, because, well, marriages are relationships. But if I understand my attachment style, I understand my spouse's attachment style, how can that support or, help me navigate my marriage? Mm

Cinnamon: there are like five key things that we want to think about when we're trying to build a resilient, supportive, healthy marriage. those five things there's room. To move for usually both parties, maybe one more towards the middle from one side and one Towards the middle from the other the first one is gonna be open communication having a blind spot is fine. But if you're getting feedback that you are not a good communicator or someone's having difficulty communicating with you, you get to hear that because you have to have open and honest communication that allows each person to have their feelings and also to still feel [00:37:00] secure and supported in that relationship.

That leads us to the second thing, which is emotional support. to recognize that importance of that emotional support and create that's, I hate to use this word because we know people like to cheese on it, but to create a safe space for each partner to be able to express how they feel, express what their concerns are in the relationship without having the bottom. drop out from under them or have them be kicked while they're down, while they're being vulnerable. The third thing is, if necessary, seek professional

Erin: Yeah.

Cinnamon: Right? there is premarital counseling, there is counseling for how to keep your marriage as healthy as it already is, and then, proactive, and then there's also, problem solving counseling.

And if these patterns so if you feel like those are causing significant challenges in your relationship and you have made these attempts to [00:38:00] figure out how do we get on the same page or what am I not saying for you to understand how I'm feeling and vice versa, then pull in a third party that is neutral.

 Like I always say, somebody that does not have a dog in the fight, do not go ask your sister in law because you know, like everybody has an angle and an advantage and,wants a certain outcome.

 The fourth thing that I think is important is as we're doing this, you individually have to build healthy coping strategies.

You have to be able to take care of yourself to be healthy enough to get into the relationship and be able to manage the stress and the emotions. I mean, it doesn't matter how much you love someone. You are two different people and you do not share a brain

Erin: Unless they're me and you.

Cinnamon: unless it's my God. I was about to say the thing, unless they're us.

So there's going to be conflict and there's going to be challenges. You have to figure out how to do that in a way that doesn't put cracks in the [00:39:00] relationship. And then lastly, building resiliency. Resiliency is such a overused word. I think now we've grabbed a hold of it and we've run with it, but it really is so important because it fosters a strong emotional connection and it allows each, participant in that relationship to support each other through those ups and downs, whether that is the ups and downs of just.

to be interesting to see if it's part of being in a relationship, if it's part of parenting, if it's the ups and downs that come with a regular schedule and a regular work shifts, and, many people do not have spouses that may see multiple dead bodies a day on a shift. obviously there are going to be unique things that, man, if you don't have.

That resiliency in the relationship and the communication and the emotional support, those are going to be so much more difficult.

Erin: Definitely.

Cinnamon: And it rolls over into the way that we parent as

Erin: Yeah, and I was going to say, there's a book that I'm constantly recommending to my clients, [00:40:00] and it's a book called Growing Up Again, and it also has a pretty little workbook, 

Cinnamon: I just recommended it to a client

Erin: it's so good, and it also directly correlates with attachment styles and how we parent. Our children is often in direct correlation to how we were parented or not parented.

I often see folks struggling with this, like, I don't know how to parent my kid because none of us do. and so I highly recommend the book Growing Up Again and going through that to really have a good understanding because we all know about those parents. That show up with that anxious attachment style, and then they're like helicopter parents.

They're overprotective. They don't let their kids go out. They won't let them spend the night at or they're just smothering in a way. on the other hand, yeah, they're overcompensating, exactly. But then on the other hand, 

Cinnamon: to feel neglected. Yeah. 

Erin: yes. And then [00:41:00] that's where the discipline gets wishy washy though, It's like. I'm inconsistent with my discipline this is what I see. I don't discipline my children because I made poor choices in my relationship with their other parent. And therefore, I don't want them to resent me. So, it's like, I just I'm not going to actually do my role as a parent out of fear that they're not going to like me, which is actually the opposite. It's not creating that structure that children need so desperately.

Cinnamon: Is that what we mean when we say parenting out of guilt?

Erin: Yes, definitely. Yeah, and the other thing you see too is, I'm going to get my kid whatever they want because I'm trying to make up for things, which is again, inconsistent. Because that's not the real world either. What are you teaching your children when you're inconsistent with the way you try to buy their love or not give them the discipline that is required for them to be well [00:42:00] rounded individuals in society?

it's like, imagine going into the and then all of a sudden your boss says, you're getting punished for this particular thing because there's consequences to our actions and they're just like blindsided. Like, what? think that they can just run around the world and be a holes and do whatever the hell they want and then they're blindsided.

Cinnamon: Do you remember that story about the kid who,he could have been charged or should have been maybe with vehicular homicide and they made up an imaginary disease about, entitlement? Affluenza! excuse for him to not get certain consequences were because he grew up so privileged and his parents never told him no, that it wasn't his fault and that he was getting off free. I mean, he ended up, you know, leaving. 

Erin: ...more like, if He doesn't know the difference between right or wrong, that's like being a sociopath. if you're out there, oh my gosh, I can't even, let's not go there. Let's just put a pin in that one. 

Cinnamon: Yeah, we can, wecircle back around. [00:43:00] the growing up again book. One of the things that I think is a telltale about it is that subtitle, right? Parenting ourselves, parenting our children. it's a twofer, right? So we get to look at how do we give ourselves as adults what we didn't get that we needed while we were kids and also, how do we not screw up our kids by moving the pendulum clear to the other side?

Right?So if I want my kids to have the things that I didn't, so I swing that pendulum all the way to the other side and I never tell them no. no, we got to find that middle ground, that, moderation 

Erin: yeah.

Cinnamon: for sure.

Erin: But then we get into the whole avoidant attachment in parenting, which is, The inability to give, most of the time, our children that emotional response that they really require. And we touched on this in the last episode. a child falls and hurts themselves, and you're like, rub some dirt on it.

And there's no hug or [00:44:00] compassion or empathy. Nothing is there to solidify that safety there.

Cinnamon: And if I don't know, that is an opportunity To provide my kid that if that is not something I have ever needed Why would I automatically think my kid does? Why would I even know what that would look like? You know, you use the word empathy To be able to put myself in somebody's shoes. I have to at least be able to picture what their shoes would look like

Erin: Yeah. That's

Cinnamon: And when we have created our own emotional distance for protection, we're certainly not going to be fluent in giving it to others.

Erin: Yeah. It makes it really challenging to connect with our kids. When we have that avoidant attachment. Mm

Cinnamon: one that we're looking at, again, is the disorganized attachment. And a theme with this is because you're seeing the two other attachment styles getting blended is, again, mixed messages. [00:45:00] And I had a friend in grad school who'd always do this hand motion where she'd likeput her one hand up Like she wanted you to stop and then have you like come forward with her other hand and she's like no stop I don't need anymore and I feel like that is the mixed messages that kids can get so it's like I don't know when I can get what I need from my parent, or I don't know when I need to choose to deny myself what I need for my parent, because my parents not available, which when we go back to last episode, we were talking very specifically about the language when it comes to how do we even create these attachment styles, because we're talking about how our attachment styles affect our lives and all this.

But we're also repeating some patterns, right? So when we're looking at whether or not there is, consistent unresponsiveness or inconsistent responsiveness, that's what creates these insecure [00:46:00] attachments. And if we don't get a handle on ourselves, we are creating another generation of an insecure attachment style.

If nothing else, right, that, parents love their kids. If there's no other reason for you to dig into this and do a little bit of work, it's so you don't jack your kids up any more than you are just going to, because we're all gonna jack the kids up.

Erin: question for you, Cinn. 

Cinnamon: Yeah, E. 

Erin: Am I screwed? Are we stuck with these attachment styles that we developed at a young age? Is there anything that we can do about that? 

Cinnamon: Okay, those are two very different questions. You're like, are we screwed? I'm like, in your case,  perhaps. But in general, what you're asking is, can they change?

And absolutely, one of the things the phrases that I use is about it, being in your blueprint. But I, hesitate to use that word because that makes us think of permanency.

And these are our knee jerk ways of [00:47:00] being when we don't give it any thought or consideration. That does not mean that growing our own self awareness listening to feedback, asking people that are in our inner circle questions that we can't make changes. So yes, increase that self awareness, you want to make sure that your boundaries are consistent, that you're not sending mixed messages.

 You may want to work on what we call emotion regulation skills, where it's not oh, I'm really sorry, I got mad. you didn't get mad like you got the flu, like you are in charge of your emotions. Nobody can make you mad. so we have to be able to take ownership and regulate our emotions so we can stay calm in a situation.

And I have learned that there is a lot of confusion around the difference between an emotion and a behavior. You can feel angry and not [00:48:00] behave angrily. And I don't know if we always know to separate those two.

Erin: We definitely don't.

Cinnamon: I would also say we need to practice, what we would call mindful parenting, Be present, be non judgmental, be compassionate, and recognize that these are little people, That they are going to screw up, they are going to piss us off, and it is our responsibility to make sure that we're doing what we want to do with them in a way that is mindful and attentional because they're going to carry it with them.  And all of that comes down to education, Yeah. yourself aware.

Erin: absolutely, and then we're most often going to circle back around to having a neutral party, like a therapist. Yep, a professional in your life. I know that I am speaking to someone right now and we're working on a lot of, old behaviors and how they translate into my parenting and my relationship styles and everything else.

And it's been eye opening and supportive and just having that knowledge alone has [00:49:00] allowed me to put the pause in to see how I want to react. So I'm not necessarily reacting in that. Anxious fashion and sometimes avoidant I mean, I feel like maybe I'm right in the middle where I can be very disorganized, I don't know. So outside help is always a recommendation, of course.

Cinnamon: And while yes, they are malleable, we can change them if we put in the work to do that. It is hard work because these attachment styles have been ingrained in us, we have to be willing to give ourselves grace, make mistakes, apologize, go back and say, I'm aware of what I did. not only is it those deep seated patterns, but we're also looking at the neurobiological factors of, stress responses the fear of vulnerability, the fear of abandonment, these things can be ingrained in us.

And so it does take that mindful awareness.[00:50:00] my favorite thing, even pigs can get comfortable in mud. We end up with having that comfort and familiarity. We know what we're going to get when we do what we've always done. Trying to do something new, and perhaps even awkwardly, can be very uncomfortable.

And the challenge of this, and I think any change that we make in Improving our own well being is being willing to sit in the discomfort until it's no longer uncomfortable. when you get comfortable with the uncomfortable. 

Erin: We can go on and on and on, especially about the things that we are extremely passionate about, which, as most of you listeners know, anything that has to do with childhood, we tend to cling on to. That kind of forms who we are today as adults. We tend to cling on to that. And we want to be very clear that there's so much more to learn in the world [00:51:00] of attachment styles.

And our hope is to give you some foundational understanding so that if you wish to look into it more, you can, but you also have a good grasp on maybe where you fall and where your partner falls and how you show up in the world of attachment styles. 

Cinnamon: Whatever effort you put into it, it can not only heal and help you, but you're stopping any negative generational patterns that have already existed. And you know, when we talk about adverse childhood experiences, when we talk about attachment styles, the Most dangerous part of this stuff is that without some kind of intervention without somebody, Interjecting into this and saying hey stop.

this is where the problems lie It just keeps going and going so maybe This is that appeal to people who aren't so interested to work through their own for their own benefit But if you have [00:52:00] kids, your reactions to how you were raised are impacting how your children will function in their adulthood. And it's kind of like, if we don't do it for ourselves, can we at least do

Erin: Do it for the kids. It's for the kids. Awesome. Join us next week for a really incredible guest who is also going to be discussing all the things that we just discussed, which is adverse childhood experiences, how they affect us and a really, really great program called Save a Warrior if you haven't heard about it.

So we have Larry Turner joining us next week talking about how he came to the other side and all the things that he discovered and learned. So. We hope you will tune back in and check out Larry. We'll talk to y'all soon.