Transcript
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Hey, this is Brian Gillespie, retired police officer, Marine Corps Veteran, come with me after the tones drop, step out of the dark and step into the lightness with me.
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I would tell people that, you know, I didn't drink a lot, but when I drank, I drank a lot.
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Because the image in Jersey City when I grew up, the bum was the guy in that trench coat with a bottle of wine and a bag. That was the drunk guy . I didn't drink at home, I'm not an alcoholic, I pay the bills. I pay you, I do what I got to do.
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He said, You're right. Yeah, I'm fine. He goes, you're fine. I'm fine. He says, You know what that means, right? I go, what?
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It means your F'ed up, insecure, neurotic and emotional. I go, then I'm very fine. I knew something had to change. And that change was I stopped drinking. By letting myself be vulnerable. When I didn't even know I was letting myself be vulnerable. Tell me more about myself. And to what I say now is the how of sobriety, then I wasn't that happening for a while, which is being honest, open and running, letting people help you. Number one, because I'm the helper not to help be that was very difficult for the stigma to be broken. There needs to be people that they can show that this is me, this is what I did. And I'm here if you need something along those lines, so that guys can sit there and say, Oh, my God, he just told my story. Never underestimate the impact that you may have on someone else's life.
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It's the first responder, the first to get the call. The first on scene greeted by God knows what pushed beyond the limits that they don't even set. Then what happens you're listening to After the Tones Drop. We're your hosts. I'm Cinnamon, a first responder trauma therapist who founded our practice after seeing the need for specialized care following a local line of duty death.
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And I'm Erin. I'm a first responder integration coach.
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We help first responders receive transformational training, therapy and coaching.
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Now we come to you to explore, demystify and destigmatize mental health and wellness for first responders.
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Our show brings you stories from real first responders, the tools they've learned, the changes they've made in the lives they now get to live.
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The mission is to tee up this episode to include our guest.
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Yes. Okay. Can you explain to the folks listening, what that means?
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Well, in simple terms, our guests was born into a family of alcoholics are guests signed up for things that can create a lot of stress and discomfort in one's life, where you would need to take the edge off, or you need to take the edge off.
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And he learned very well, exactly how to do that a lot of role modeling going on.
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That's right. And having the desire to even be like that Not understanding of course, from a young age, what that actually looks like, and then you're too far gone. He's too far gone. One is too far gone, however you want to say it. So there's so much value in the pain, unfortunately. But it's been turned into a story of resiliency of supporting your brother, and a real solid way.
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It's an asset that our guests now has to help the next recovering are in need of recovery first responder, like creating the second career that came from his own personal awareness, his own struggle, his own growth.
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Mm hmm. So here's the thing about alcohol, it's glamorized. When we're young.
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There's all of these commercials, there's Superbowl ads, there's watching your parents having their friends over and having cocktails, there's this idea of it being like hoity toity, and fancy this idea of like sitting on a beach and drinking. And when you're young, you don't realize that it can be detrimental to some people that it can actually take your life out. And that some of the people that are closest to you who you idolize are really suffering with something that you originally thought or had been convinced of was glamorous and cool and the thing to do, and so it ends up taking you out. And the next thing you know, you are living a life in a way that your day to day is contingent on whether you're going to have this drink or not.
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Like every waking move revolves around that drink and you try to convince yourself that it's fun and glamorous and that you enjoy it and incorporate it into your life but it becomes a life of desperation and misery.
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There are some people who can drink in a glamorized way. Yeah. That's the tricky part is that you You aren't that person. It's this constant goal that you try to achieve. And so it takes a lot of time to figure out, okay, mine is different.
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And sometimes you can figure it out before you're 21. And sometimes you figure it out after you're retired.
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Yeah. And so our guest today is one of those that his hero was his father, right that he thought it was cool. Wanted to be just like dad, and in every single way he was. And so it's exciting to have our guest join us today to tell us exactly what it was like, and the experiences that he had that really excelled his drinking into inability to function,
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a problem rather than the solution.
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That's right, driving him into a career of using his recovery to support other first responders who are also struggling in that area. And it's not an abnormal thing to use drinking.
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You know, how is it coping mechanism?
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Yeah,
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how many times we hear people say, now when I get a fork, I'm gonna need a drink all the time, and nobody flinches.
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If they hear that, in fact, they're more likely to say me too. What you're saying is, everything has been so hard that I need to numb out when we numb like that. We numb relationships with children, relationships with spouses, other activities that I think a lot of forget about this. And I think our guests will touch on this across our fingers. But you can't numb only one side of the emotional spectrum. It does not work. If you are going to numb you are going to numb all of it.
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What other kind of knowledge do you have about our guest today?
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He is not in the mafia. Even though it sounds like it always sounds like it coming from also two girls in the middle west. So somebody else may be like, No, I sounds like the rest of us. But which is the worst New Jersey accent?
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Yeah, that was really bad. I mean, I knew it was that bad before even finished?
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So yeah, if you haven't figured it out, our guest is from New Jersey. He is retired law enforcement, who is now a advocate in the recovery world,
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where not only did he retire from law enforcement, but he was in the Marines first. So talk about indoctrination into the boys club. What is the thing that the marine say? Hoo ha?
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no, that's a crotch. Okay, so
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Brian has actually been involved in the first responder world since 1982, when he joined the US Marine Corps from 82. Until today, he has been active in that first responder community. He left the Marines in 86 and began his career a few years later in law enforcement. And he's still even though he's retired, he is still active in drums and pipes groups, he is very active with a Police Benevolent Association.
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And then he is and that's all social, right? Social Civic. And then you throw in professional because now he has become a treatment advocate for first responders seeking recovery for Addiction and Mental health issues. He currently is at a treatment facility as that treatment advocate is called Recovery Centers of America and Raritan Bay, New Jersey, and he helps first responders and their families find recovery daily.
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That's right. And even if people don't want to go to that particular facility, he's the kind of guy that he doesn't care. He's the kind of guy you find wherever you need to go, yeah, recover his recovery. And that's what's so cool. It's not about the facility. It's about who he is, as a human being.
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That all he wants is for people to find the gift of recovery and be able to live a life of freedom from that bondage of booze and addiction
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as handcuffs that you don't even know you have on until after you stop.
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Yeah. So welcome, Brian.
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We're excited to have you on the show. Excited for our listeners to hear your story. And we'll pass it on to you.
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Great, thank you. It's nice seeing you have a great night by Bill. So my name is Brian Gillespie. I'm a retired police officer from Manasquan New Jersey Monmouth County. I retired in 2010. Marine Corps veteran from 1982 to 1986. And I currently work as you said with Recovery Centers of America Riordan bay with a rescue first responders program you know a lot of reasons why I'm here today is because of my sobriety.
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And because of oh, did I mention sobriety oh shoot is the things that have happened to me that led up to this point. So Uh, you know, there's there's a lot to the story itself. I was born and raised in Jersey City, New Jersey, to a law enforcement, military family for generations of law enforcement. And my dad was a mounted cop for years in Jersey City, and he was a Navy veteran of World War Two, and Korea and he was an ABCB, which he was pretty bad as you know.
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And he was a short, skinny, well respected, held his own and he could drink like a fish. When He was my idol. I just wanted to grow up be like my father as a kid. That's all I ever wanted to do. I wanted to get tattoos like him. You know, I wanted to be respected like him. You don't have to cry. It happens.
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tear jerking. Alright, and the good part. Yeah.
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And yeah, why were the crew cut? I want to wear a short air. I want to be a cop like him. I wanted to drink like him.
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You know, so grown up in Jersey City. Your friend's parents were either police officers, firefighters or city workers. We all went to Catholic school up there, because that's what you did. If you went to public school and you got kicked out.
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Wait, wait, hang on.
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Let me just clarify that if you were if you were attending public school, then that was a public announcement that you had been kicked out of the private Catholic. Good didn't know. I didn't wouldn't have put two and two together like that.
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Yeah, Catholic school was great. in Jersey City. I my knuckles are still roar. But that's beside the point. But it was fun. At the time I signed up for the Marine Corps, I knew I was going to be leaving. I was not a college student didn't want to be a student at all. I left for the Marine Corps and graduated June of 82. I left the Marine Corps in August of 82.
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And didn't realize I was allowed to drink wherever we went. You can walk into an E Club, which is an enlisted club and just order a beer or a can of beer and sit there all night. The only thing was if as long as you got up at 5am in the morning and make sure you made PT that was good to go. And if you were able to throw up and still PT you were the hero, you were the legend of the company. Yeah, I wasn't so good. With that.
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deployed twice in 84 deployed in Westpac, which was anywhere from Australia to Japan and in between all the other states. It was right after the barracks bombed in Beirut on October 23 1983. So employed in January of 84, wound up picking up parts of the remnants of the people that were coming out of Beirut on our ships. Some of them were people I went to boot camp with.
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Some of them were people I went to tank school with I was a tanker in the Marine Corps. So Eagle globe and anchor Marine Corps tanker era. And 86. I deployed to Japan for months about Mount Fuji two months in Okinawa, and everything surrounded Where were you going to drink? What were you going to drink? You can get beer out of the machine. It was just readily available at that time, that didn't matter what age you were.
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And, of course, I thought that this had to be a rite of passage, you know, the more stories about how you got drunk and did whatever. They're cooler. You seem to be in the military for me, especially in the Marine Corps. I was I was a small guy. I graduated bootcamp five 426 pounds. So I've always felt you don't know. 130
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You look giant.
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Sitting on a highchair.
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Wow. So yeah, I went in. I went in at five for 120. I get out of five for 126 out of bootcamp. I got a Marine Corps hours about 561 45.
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You go two inches, they stretch out?
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They stretched me out.
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Yes, they did have a joke
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to where I grew and like an inch. And my husband said, Well, it's because you got your competence back. You're standing taller. So I feel Yeah, I'm only five foot so I get it. Anyway.
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You know, it was fun. I couldn't wait to get out of the Marine Corps. I had signed up. I was trying to be part of an embassy duty type thing. And I was supposed to go twice. And then they turned me down because they were saying our MOS is short. They're not enough people in our MOS so they wouldn't let people out. And then I went, I got deployed in at six. I came home on a Thursday. And I would my EAS was going to be that Monday. My first one says a Gillespie your orders for embassy duty are here. I said, Well, you know what? I said I'm out. I'm out on Monday, I'm done. They gave us a 96. So I was technically out of the Marine Corps. And I always you know, sometimes I think that what would have happened if I did that. But you know what it could have should have no need to do that. Came back. I definitely want to be a police officer. That was my goal. I told her when I was getting out to be a police officer. And I came home and I dicked around for a good year and did what I had to do and caught up with what I wasn't able to do, I guess you could say. And then I got a job as a dispatcher. In a local police department down here where we are it's in the short community. You either started as a dispatcher or you started out as a special to get on a job you just didn't Well Look into a job. So,
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well. Dispatcher, what was the second thing that you said
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last year in New Jersey, they have what we call starts with police officers. So they have basically the same type of training, they're just not going five days in a row. I think it was like over 600 hours of training, I went three nights a week you did it was like for over like nine month period of time, you're still able to carry so that was the way to get onto the jobs and most of these towns. So I did what I had to do, I started dispatching but then I started playing PBA softball. So PBA back here is like the Police Benevolent Association. And we also have the FOP PBA softball on Tuesday nights was the big thing. So I started hanging out with a lot of these guys hanging out like I was a cop and I wasn't, you know, being able to go places with people and drive and do stupid stuff and, and hang out and sick out at eight o'clock at night for my midnight shift. It was normal or so I thought. Then I got hired as a dispatcher in a couple of towns. And I wound up where I retired from Manasquan as a dispatcher and I went any academy or class to for a special officer. And I worked as a dispatcher in a special for a few years until I was since I was hard as a regular and put on the road. You know, and all that did was give me a badge to do things that I shouldn't do. But I also when I moved into town for the test, I lived above what we call GGS pizza. Right and it's right on the ocean. And it's probably about a 75 foot walk to our bar called Leggett's that was where we all hung out.
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And I would stumble out of there every night and go home and do the same thing and go to work in the morning or not go and you know the convenience was just fantastic. But about I was I hate I continued my drinking and thinking I'm hot shit, you know which I wasn't. All of a sudden in 1996 I met someone who was involved with a bagpipe band. My brother played the drums his whole life. I always loved music and man I want to do that. So he connected me with a band called the Leatherneck Pipes and Drums are out of Paramus, New Jersey, but they practice at Newark airports every Tuesday night I went up for lessons and I started playing with the bagpipe. If you ever hear any stories about bagpipe bands, I'm gonna tell you right now, every one of them is true. I
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can't say I've ever heard any stories
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I have.
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So most of the guys in the band were resolved, which made it even better for me. So I was a police officer from down south but a lot of the guys were from Jersey City or in the northern area, so I got to know them as well and we would go out and always everything was always involved in drinking. From there. I joined a band that just formed down in my own county, Monmouth County and it was a Monmouth County police Pipes and Drums and I became the first band manager and a bit on a drum Sergeant for them. And it was just you know, everything took off from there. 1999 The same year we started mommoth. I also joined the Port Authority police Pipes and Drums. Because I met some people they were looking for some people and I jumped in there. And I stayed with them to 2002. So in 2001 there was a pretty big incident that happened up here in New York City. And 37 police officers were lost from the Port Authority police himself. Three of those people were in pipe end, Richard Rodriguez, Liam Callahan and Steve Hosko. Richie and I had become pretty close.
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Richie also played the Monmouth County band. Yeah. So that happens. So we lost three members from there. And you know, 911 became pretty important in our PD would go up.
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I went up on a Thursday. That happened on a Tuesday on Thursday, I brought Richie, his wife and his friend up there to try and find them or someone that they could talk to because it was still doing rescue mode, right? Oh, and we thought, and they were getting a lot, a lot of different reports about things were happening or going on and things that didn't happen. So I brought her up to the ground zero, we had to leave their border back to Port Authority command, and to meet with some other people. And then from that point on for the next three months, we played funerals every day. Some were one a day to two a day, three day four day, back to back we just got on a bus and leave I would leave my house at seven o'clock come home at 10 o'clock drink from the minute I left to the minute I got home and rinse repeat. We would do it again the next day.
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It was the greatest thing because we were hanging out with other people who are like us.
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And we always thought we were we were honoring our brothers honoring my our dead. Right?
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What came with that was me spending a lot of time with my family, spend a lot of time drinking. And you know everyone doing stupid stuff that just kind of caught up with us. It ended in November, when 17 of us went down to Puerto Rico because Ritchie's mother and father couldn't come back up here. And so we played a funeral for them down there. And of course, we did it just to honor our brother but hey, it was three days away from here and it was booze filled three days. Now so any any time you know whether it was true tragedy or something happy booze was just around everything we did.
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That's the tricky thing about booze, right is that it's not as much as it can be a way to change your mood. There is no mood where we cannot justify it being appropriate.
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Right? If we're sad, we're drink we drink if we're happy, and we're celebrating we drink.
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There's nothing too great.
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Nothing too terrible, that cannot justify didn't hammered
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a drink.
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Right? Mind you, I just I want to say it took for granted, but it was part and parcel of what I did. That's what I was supposed to do, or what I felt, you know, hey, as an Irish cop, marine, I drank I gotta keep that reputation going, you know, I gotta do stupid,
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like your dad, like what us I want to be like my dad. And
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that was it. And to just not miss out on anything.
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Whenever something was going on.
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I had to make sure I was there.
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And I had to make sure that I took time off, where I could have saved that money. I didn't save the money. I took time off to go play a job somewhere or do something. I decided I wanted to start a marine quarterly down by May in 2008. Because I needed another drinking place, right? I needed another place to go or to get out of the house and to do something. I mean, and it's it was great. I retired in 2010.
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Yeah, I thought I had the world by the balls. I knew I wanted to retire. I retired early because I bought my Marine Corps time back. I wanted to work. I just didn't want to work there anymore. I didn't want to be a police officer anymore. But I love being a police officer. I did a couple of odd jobs here and there. I did a couple other security jobs here and there.
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And then we go down to Hilton Head every year. And then a pool I met a guy one day who says Hey, he's Rucker security, because we're a hire and I go really, so I went through the process, he hooked me up and I got a job as Rucker security so it was great. But they didn't put me on the campus. Rutgers has with facilities that are for mental health and substance use.
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So they wanted me to go there as a police officer, someone I can handle themselves do whatever.
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And I got there and I worked the first facility for a year. And is that great? I'm going on telling these guys yeah, you shouldn't drink you shouldn't do that. You got to do this. Yeah, cuz I know. Right? Like
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I know, but you were still drinking. Oh, so how? Okay,
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thank you so crazy. Donna Loon, people coming out of jail, tell them these kinds of things.
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And it's like, you know what, but for me, I thought it was good. I did a decent enough job.
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They asked me to help open a facility in Cherry Hill, they had been opened, but they didn't have security down there. So I went down there. Pretty bad place a Camden County. I went down there and it was the real deal. And one day, as I'm walking around, I would try and befriend some of the people I would talk to him. Because I knew that it was only me down here. God forbid something happened. And I started to learn when I was on a job. Once we started doing community policing, can we please you changed everything for me?
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Because I was the guy that you know you got someone's you got you arrested you everything was gonna happen no matter what I stopped you. Community policing maybe had a different outlook.
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And I started I had a little ice a little, little bit of empathy when I started doing that.
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And what do you think changed what brought on that between
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the community itself it opened up a broader scope. It just opened up my eyes to a lot everything else in the world.
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And there's a lot of different things to that. Just like when I went to go visit the 911 Memorial. And the first time I went to see that I realized that there was close to 3000 people who also died that day and not just my three friends and other people that I knew. Yeah, little things like that which started happening to me in my life. I'm working down here the one day and this guy comes up to me and I never asked anybody what they did or what they were there for.
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I don't want us Yeah, Brian and I'm doing good. You know, for all is going great. They said I'm going to be getting out of here soon. Oh my God, that's great. Again, I just got out of prison. They put me away for 10 years for robbing place but we locked up the security guard kept them in there for three days and locked them in the closet. We did this we did that.
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Oh my God, that's great. I'm glad you're doing good. He walks away I got on the phone, I go get me the fuck out of here.
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Too, at that point in time also saw a job listing for Vets for warriors out of Ruckers vets Wars is 24/7 national peer support run out of Rutgers University behavioral health.
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And I never heard about it before. And it was just something that really interested me. I got hired by them. And what it was was taking calls throughout the country and making calls and talking to people about what's going on in our life and teaching them different breathing techniques or just giving them the avenue and started doing active listening and started realizing that I'm not just the only person in the world that there are other people and finding out there are other people that were like me. So that was going fantastic. But I started working out I turned 51 at the time and I was retired six years and I said the more if I got to do something I want to start working out I said this is one place maybe I'll go to she's like yeah, go ahead. I didn't want to know anybody. I just wanted to go and I just wanted to to work out a drink. It was pretty heavy. Missing a lot of stuff for work because I just didn't care. I'm not doing a lot of things with my family. My son was born in 1999. So now it's time for me to work out. I gotta lose some of this weight. So I go and I walk in and I'm there.
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Anything about me I'm extremely early. So I got there nice and early. And as far as a rectangle room was, I was in a back right corner because that was where I was going to be. That's where I would sit for dinner. That's where we did everything. I was in a back right corner. Nobody behind me at my fields of fire.
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It was great. People start to come in, I got here as in, no one's gonna be able to come next to me. And sure shit. This guy comes in. He comes in about five minutes till he's like, hey, hey, I'm watching him. But that dude is not getting next to me here. There's no fucking way I'm letting ensure shit. He comes up next to me between me and the wall. He puts his water down. He puts his his towel down and I go son of a bitch now I'm in fight or flight. I'm like, what do you do here? You know, do I confront him? Or what do I do? And I don't even know how it happened.
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It was no thought process. I put my hand I said, Hey, I'm Brian.
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He goes, Hey, I'm Rob. Like, have you ever done anything like this before? He goes, No. He goes, my wife does the later class. I said, I'll tell you why. Bro, you help me. I'll help you. Because sounds like a plan right? To me and Rob became buddies. We're doing everything together. You'd come every morning. We do everything and I'd be going crazy. doing these exercises and stuff. And the big. Easy does it easy testament. Yeah. Hi, buddy. All right, you got it. You know, so then I'd be doing something else. And I get very frustrated with myself because you know, try and get it done right? It's Oh, progress not perfection.
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:35.549
Like what do you come up with this shit. You're
00:26:35.549 --> 00:26:36.660
such a genius.
00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:40.650
Could just whip these out these clever little things.
00:26:40.650 --> 00:26:40.799
But
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:57.960
he also is a substance use counselor. When you started be talking and there'd be days I'd come in that I really didn't want to be there. Whether I think to how high hell or just you could tell. And he's be you okay? Yeah, I'm good. But thank you, as well. I'm here for you.
00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:59.910
If you need anything I step guide you. No problem.
00:27:00.690 --> 00:27:08.160
I'm a helper. Thank you for the offer. But I don't need or accept help. I just help. Although,
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:34.079
I would have been a couple of times, right? And I bet no, no, it's okay. It's okay. So on March 16, of 2015, my buddy and I go to drop kicks concert where he was friends with the band. We're able to go backstage and hang out, drinking all the beer having all the stupid stuff filled. Okay. So he left to go his one way and my wife come to pick me up. I'm golden. I'm not driving. She picked me up. I'm going home.
00:27:34.079 --> 00:28:05.250
I'm not going out. The next day was a Sunday, laid around not doing anything just feeling like crap. And that Monday, me and Rob, we worked out and we would talk every day on my drive to work. And that one Monday after workout. I didn't even answer the phone. I felt like crap. I knew it. I knew something was wrong. All I could come up with out of my mouth was saying to myself was something's got to change. I continue to say this over and over. Something's got to change. Now mind you, I'm still negotiating with myself.
00:28:02.130 --> 00:28:42.329
And I never said I need to stop drinking. I said something's got to change. So I do what I have to do. I get into work, drop my bag. Let me use the first in last out lock up. Same times, throw my bag down. I'll walk into the first room. And written on the room was the Serenity Prayer. On the whiteboard there was now Friday when I left. That point, I just dropped down and I started crying like a little kid. I call my wife said I need help. And she says, Yeah, you do. She's having a hole, Rob yet. I said now is my next call.
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:46.109
So I said, Hey, Rob, I need help. I told the whole story.
00:28:47.460 --> 00:30:04.410
And he says, I told you, I'll always be there for you. So from that point on, I've always felt that I will always be there for you that I've kind of taken that to an extreme. But I've always felt that I will be there for you for the people who need that help. That night, Rob took me to my first meeting, I reached out to a friend online. A female who I grew up with in Jersey City shoes had been sober for many years. And she said you should come to this meeting tonight. So I went to that meeting, rented some people and started to get sober. So for like the first three weeks, in a meeting here or there, and then I go to the Irish festival three weeks into sobriety kilton all and I run into a friend who I know had been sober for a little bit of time and who had struggled for a long time. As a man, I can't wait to tell you. So I've been looking for you is what's up. I said I haven't had a drink for three weeks. He said if you've been to Boston pages, I said not not yet. Because you got to come with me. So tomorrow night, can you can you meet me in Woodbridge? I said yeah. So we went to dinner he told me about everything. I want to introduce myself. I've been there non stop for last eight years. So for the first 11 months If I did nothing but positive edges, I don't really recommend it to everyone.
00:30:04.410 --> 00:30:12.240
But that's what I did. I did not go to any other regular AAA because they were not like me.
00:30:08.490 --> 00:30:14.849
They don't understand me. They will not understand me. I don't want to see those P
00:30:14.849 --> 00:30:29.279
Brian, can you explain to the folks listening, what that means that you only went to this one meeting and why this one meeting was a little bit different than maybe what else you would find on a AAA state directory?
00:30:30.029 --> 00:31:28.589
Sure, while some pages in New Jersey is for paid fire and paid police officers online, I felt that I would be okay there that no one else would have to know that I was an alcoholic, that no one would have to hear the things that I would have to repeat. And that's where I felt comfortable. So for the next 11 months, that's where I went. And I loved it. Because I met with these people. I still have my book from that first night. And if there's 10 signatures on there, there's eight of those people are still at that meeting. Every time I go there for about 11 months. I'm still working out. And another guy says to me, Hey, I have a great meeting for us at all. Yeah, it was yes, Sunday morning. 730. So I sounds great. I said, where's it at? He goes, it's a Manasquan. I sit over my dead fucking body. He says, come on and give it a try. I'm like, No, that's a town. I was a police officer. And that's a town that I started the Marine Corps league. And that's the town my son was going to go to high school. There's a town my wife went to high school there. This is not happening. They're just
00:31:28.589 --> 00:31:32.759
not God forbid, I know somebody they see me. They know me. That's right.
00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:36.839
Oh, the shame that God forbid parent was
00:31:37.890 --> 00:31:39.150
always the last one to find out.
00:31:41.549 --> 00:31:42.599
No one was surprised.
00:31:43.049 --> 00:31:56.339
Yes. So that next week, I know I talked to my sponsor about and I told him my reservations. I just know way too many people. I can't deal with this right now. Because I had 11 months in and I knew everything at that point. Now.
00:31:56.490 --> 00:32:00.509
I know I have as we tend to do at. Yes.
00:32:00.690 --> 00:32:20.640
And so the next weekend on that Sunday I did with any good natured Irish drunk marine cop would do. I drove through the parking lot when I mean, he was on a check for cars that I knew. Now when I say that, I tell people this and that's, that's normal, right? And have it it goes on like, yeah, like, No, it's not. It's not.
00:32:21.089 --> 00:32:22.529
Would you say that's typical?
00:32:22.950 --> 00:32:26.759
Right. Typical and normal are very different things.
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:44.579
So I reached out to my sponsor, and I told him, You know, I didn't recognize any cars, but maybe I'll give it a shot. He goes, Alright, give it a shot. So when I went with this guy, and I told him it was I want to know some people here because I don't worry if you don't worry about it. Now.
00:32:44.579 --> 00:33:01.019
You're going to know some people. So as we pull up, there's a guy standing in the doorway. He's a big dude. Fuck, I fucking told you. Because you know, am I go? Yeah, his daughter goes to school with my son and my parents strangled his parents. So walk up. Hey, what's going on? He goes, Hey, Brian.
00:33:01.019 --> 00:33:09.900
He was how much time? Yeah, I was 11 months. All right. So welcome, brother. Come on in.
00:33:05.250 --> 00:33:54.210
Alright. So walk in and I ran into two people want it to it that one I arrested when I was involved in arrest. And they welcomed me with open arms. And a fucking me up because I was I was loaded for bear ready for a fight. And I'm happy to say that I have never stopped going to that meeting to this day. Not only did it broaden my horizons, it got to meet a lot of other people that I would have never broken bread with whether they were socio economic status was whether their drug of choice was these were people that were not in my circle. And with the sponsor, who was able to explain to me how people were just trying to get recovery like you are, it took going there for a very long time for me to realize that and to realize that people were just trying to do the right Can
00:33:54.210 --> 00:34:37.079
I ask a question, right, ensure, because I think what you just passingly mentioned is frequently an issue when it comes to first responders. Even when I first started working with first responders, they'd have to come to my office at a community behavioral health clinic. And they didn't want to sit in the waiting room because these were people they ran calls on arrested, were present handed out warrants on it was just really uncomfortable. And it changed that authoritative hierarchy. When you walk into AAA, there's several admissions that are happening non verbally, right, and it takes away some of that power or the the hierarchy.
00:34:37.500 --> 00:35:25.469
And so what was it for you beyond the fact that like they were nice, and they were welcoming? A lot of people can be nice and be welcoming and you still could have made the choice to not go back there because of a level of discomfort with Oh, Brian Gillespie former police officer is taken down a notch and is now like one of us, like, what was it about the importance of your recovery or your experience in that room that made it more important for you to get the sobriety that that room had to offer than to protect maybe your anonymity, or even the power differential that we see happening in communities with law enforcement?
00:35:26.250 --> 00:35:42.659
Great question. And I wouldn't have been able to answer that right then and there, I can only look back now in retrospect, it was a word that's really been banging me in the head lately, was I allowed myself to be vulnerable. And I couldn't allow myself to do that. You know.
00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:54.150
Okay, I just would like to say that we did not feed Brian, that answer. He just gave the perfect answer, all on his own, because that was the truth.
00:36:02.730 --> 00:36:18.840
Hey, there listener, if you could ask any question, or freely talk about any challenge related to being on the job, and no one would know, what would you say, we are excited to share about our confidential hotline that we created just for you.
00:36:19.469 --> 00:36:45.119
Through this confidential hotline, you can leave a message sharing a success, a struggle, or simply ask a question. We will spotlight calls and offer feedback and insight from a licensed therapist and a certified coach who work exclusively with first responders. You can access our hotline voicemail by visiting after the tone strop.com and clicking the voicemail tab.
00:36:41.670 --> 00:36:57.869
Additionally, you can join our mailing list if you'd like or easily follow us on Facebook and Instagram for all the most recent updates. You know, the drill telephone, tell a friend tell a first responder.
00:37:11.610 --> 00:37:22.739
Okay, I just would like to say that we did not feed Brian, that answer. He just gave the perfect answer all on his own, because that was the truth.
00:37:25.469 --> 00:37:43.769
I, I can't answer from back then, like I said that. But when I look back now, if I didn't do that, there's no way that I could have gotten a whole process. My first sponsor is my best friend. And he has a lot of wisdom. And he has helped me immensely with a lot of things.
00:37:40.199 --> 00:38:34.559
And one of the things that he did help me was about opening up letting people help you number one, because I was I'm the helper not to help be, you know, so that was very difficult for me, you know, to even raise my hand, say my name is Brian, I've been known for 11 months. But in a room like that. I had two guys come up to me after that meeting. And still, every time when it's my anniversary, they always say, we sat down, we looked at each other said, we know why we're here. But why are you here? You know, so then that got me thinking, well, maybe I'm not that bad. Yeah, maybe I could go back out. But we all ran in the same circles. They knew me. It's just that maybe I hit it better, you know, is the thing. Like, I would tell people that, you know, I didn't drink a lot. But when I drank, I drank a lot. So that makes sense for a lot of people that because the image in Jersey City when I grew up the bomb was the guy in that trench coat
00:38:34.739 --> 00:38:38.789
with a bottle of wine in a brown paper bag. Yes, that was that was
00:38:38.789 --> 00:38:49.440
too drunk. You know, not my father, not anyone else growing up and I'll never forget. I got out of the Marine Corps. I was hanging out with my dad and it was a greatest thing for me to hang out with my dad have a couple of drinks, right?
00:38:50.039 --> 00:39:10.349
He had said to me, you know your brother poached me about being an alcoholic. He said I drink too much. I said really? He goes, Yeah, he goes, I don't drink at home. I'm not an alcoholic. I'm like, I ran with that. Till I was 51 I didn't drink at home, I'm not an alcoholic, I pay the bills, I pay you I do what I gotta do.
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:25.469
That's not me. But by letting myself be vulnerable when I didn't even know I was letting myself be vulnerable. It told me more about the disease Don't worry more about myself and to what I say now is the how of sobriety that I wasn't let happening for a while, which is being honest, open and willing.
00:39:21.780 --> 00:40:12.989
And once I started to do that things started to take off for me and I started to meet a whole new group of people kind of shied away from the pipe band for a while kind of shot away from the Marine Corps league for a while and there's things now that I don't put myself in those positions where I used to try to be that square peg round hole I need to go this is where I'm going I don't care I'm going I'm not missing out. And I get there and what the fuck am I doing here? Example was two months in I went down to convention and Wildwood guy turns around and misses you still not drinking is not not good for you. turns around, it turns right against this. It's not like you're gonna meetings or anything? And he turns around, I'm like let me ask you a fight ago. What if I am? Because what if you are what? So what if I am going to meetings? Good? Nah, that's good. That's good for you.
00:40:12.989 --> 00:40:21.900
That's, that's fine. He turns around. I sat there and I actually said, What the fuck am I doing here? I left a call my wife today I'm on my way home.
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:42.030
She goes, What's wrong? I go nothing. I didn't need to be here. Why I didn't just say fuck it at that point to have a drink. And why I just said I need to get out of here. I'll never know. And it's not my reasoning to know that's from somebody upstairs. A my higher power has put me in places that have saved my ass many times. I don't have to wonder wonder why I just know that that's what he's doing for me.
00:40:43.920 --> 00:41:09.809
Here, but that comment that guy made, the first thing I thought about was the fact that that sounds like something somebody would say who's trying to justify or rationalize their own behaviors. And I could be wrong. But saying that like, well, it's not like you're going to meetings, it almost feels like this version of them saying like, that will be the time that it means I'm in need of help is when the meetings happen. I don't know if that makes any sense.
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:22.170
I get it. Listen, everyone has their own journey, even for those who aren't in sobriety, if that's what you wanted to say, that's what he said, Yeah. I don't know why I went the right way, not the wrong way that and say fuck it, I'm here. I might as well you know.
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:54.269
I mean, I always think about it in terms of like, when the discomfort with a full blown alcoholic versus a comfort with a guy who's drinking too much and probably is like taking a respite. And if you Brian, looking like you did, doing the job that you did, engaging in the activities that you did, it might be okay for a lot of people to think that you're just a heavy drinker taking a break.
00:41:49.380 --> 00:43:11.730
But once you acknowledge that you're identifying as an alcoholic, and you need to go to meetings, then you are disrupting somebody's perception of what a true real alcoholic looks like. And if you look like me, and you're going to meetings will shit. That's when it's like, oh, I don't know what an alcoholic looks like, if it doesn't look like the guy on the corner and the trench coat with the brown paper bag. And I think that's one of the superpowers that Aaron and I have is that we don't look like the traditional stereotype. And we just like walk around being myth, you know, busting myth busting myths left and right. So I can see why not only that gentleman in particular, but anyone would be okay with you taking a break from drinking. Everybody needs, you know, dry January. But once you cross over to meetings, done, that's when that's another Yeah, you can't you can't unpick all that pickle, I'd rather be a cucumber that needs a break than a pickle who can't come back to a cucumber.
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:41.489
I can't put into words why it happened. But for that month, the two months that I had already with my sponsor, you know, I'd like to think that gave enough for me to realize that I was doing the right thing. Getting out of there was even the better thing. I would still continue to put myself in certain positions. I remember playing at a pipe band job in a bar one day, and early sobriety was I thought that was a cool thing to do. I was missing out on that job. And I was angry. I was angry. Everybody else could drink and I couldn't drink. And when dude came up to me and said, and you started drinking.
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:46.500
I said no. And he goes, sucks to be you and walked away.
00:43:46.949 --> 00:43:49.679
Nothing like a good supportive kick in the balls.
00:43:50.579 --> 00:43:56.039
Yes, I was angry that angry. So he said you're right.
00:43:56.309 --> 00:44:04.949
Yeah, I'm fine. He goes, you're fine. I'm fine. He says you know what that means? Right? I go what? Because it means you're fucked up insecure, neurotic and emotional. I go then I'm very
00:44:04.949 --> 00:44:06.960
full exclamation point.
00:44:08.969 --> 00:44:12.389
I actually still have a piece of paper in my drawer.
00:44:12.809 --> 00:44:31.469
From one of the very first trainings I ever got. It's on Union like IAFF letterhead, somebody ripped out of a bag and wrote fine, and then wrote all of that out for me. And I still have it is not in a scrapbook.
00:44:26.789 --> 00:44:33.599
But it's a version of that from just that first encounter of training.
00:44:33.690 --> 00:44:49.469
Now I don't say I'm fine anymore. Now I now I say I'm good. or god forbid, I tell the truth. I'm not doing good today when that conversation starts, but But I make sure I don't say fine anymore. And I make sure I pass that along as well.
00:44:51.059 --> 00:45:32.789
So can I ask you in terms of like those that maybe you arrested or served warrants to or were present for their shenanigans? Do you have any input from them over what it was like to have Mr. Popo in the AAA meeting and you know what it did, maybe even to their perception of law enforcement of like, your real people to just like, the alcoholics and the addicts are real people with people that love them and lives outside of the cruiser when they're getting arrested, you also are something beyond your uniform.
00:45:33.478 --> 00:45:48.478
I'll put it to you this way. In my sobriety, I have learned doesn't have to be said, doesn't have to be said right now, it doesn't have to be said by me. So I've never talked about that, and never brought that up to them. Because I know how uncomfortable I would feel.
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:52.949
And I can't imagine how comfortable they would feel. So I've never broached that subject at all.
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:56.460
That's awesome. That takes a lot of humility.
00:45:58.289 --> 00:45:59.880
Every once in awhile, it shows up.
00:46:02.429 --> 00:46:25.679
Well, and I would also think that it is about that principles before personalities, and the singularity of purpose, right, like we're all equal, when we walk into this room, whatever other hats we wear, the reason we're in that room is because the hat of an alcoholic, everything else becomes an outside issue. Yeah, and I look at
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:48.539
it as especially because I was involved with people that were seeking recovery from drugs, and seeking recovery from alcohol, that I'd never put a disclaimer on that it was like I just didn't get as it was explained to me. They're just trying to get recovery just like you. And I just simplified it for me itself. Didn't matter your drug or drink of choice.
00:46:48.539 --> 00:47:41.730
Were at that point. You know, when I was a police officer, I'd go on calls, we had a lot of bungalows that we call them, seasonal rentals. And I get down there and it'd be the divorce dad, who had the greatest job and great family, and you walk in and there's 20 Different vodka balls sitting all around, you know, on a poor bastard, that'll never be mean, I'll never be me. Know, until when I started to get sober, started to work out and do all that fun stuff. Someone said to me, you know, if you stop drinking beer, and drink vodka, you know, that's better for you, you won't gain as much weight on my brilliant, less carbs. So that's what I did. And the bars that I would go to all knew me. So I would think I'd be getting a regular glass. And it basically was a double no fault of their own. I mean, it just, that's what it came to, you know, I know for a fact, if I continued the way I did, that would have been me.
00:47:43.860 --> 00:48:02.610
Well, I would imagine that kind of complicates things a little bit too, right? Like, you know, you've got certain coffee shops that will give you a free coffee as law enforcement. But then you also have courtesy pours, where the idea that we're doing you a favor and thanking you for your service.
00:48:03.539 --> 00:48:06.210
I always thought it was because I was a small guy, but I guess maybe.
00:48:08.670 --> 00:48:12.690
And both, and both, not either are.
00:48:15.000 --> 00:49:25.679
To finish up when I was working at vets for Warriors, I worked there for about a year and a half. Then I switched over I worked for a cop to COP, which was in New Jersey 24/7 law enforcement peer support. I go out and we do debriefs for critical incidents that happened to the officers, New Jersey had started what they call the resiliency program, RPO resiliency program officer, which were they were supposed to be able to identify things that were going on with officers and approachment said, okay, is everything going all right? And be able to have the resources and available to them that they knew how to help someone get in, get into help, whether it was for mental health, or substance use or anything that was going on? The situation would be like, guy come in, dressed to the nines all the time, start showing up in sweats and some gruff on his face every day to work. He's like, Hey, what's going on? You know, something's going on. You hear all the rumors in the locker room? Fuck him and ain't my problem. You know, you'd hear about that stuff. We're now in RPO is able to see that and offer him some resources and referrals and say, Hey, I may know a place if you need to go to an IOP. If you need to go to an inpatient. Do you need mental health? You know, maybe at first it wasn't received, that officer at least knows that there is help somewhere along the line because he is having trouble with something.
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:27.030
You're there. Rob.
00:49:29.369 --> 00:50:02.070
As the RPO program started to take off at COP to COP. When I was a supervisor, we started to see a lot more calls for debriefings for Hey, let me run this by you and to where we would have never gotten those calls before. So it really started to take off people started to buy into it. People were put into situations where nobody wanted to be the field Good cop, you know, the touchy feely, but then there was some great things that happen out of it and a lot of people got help because of it. It's a phenomenal program that should be implemented throughout the country. Brian,
00:50:02.398 --> 00:50:04.108
what year was that?
00:50:05.190 --> 00:50:18.960
It was that year started was pre COVID. So, to sow Oh, the 2000 I believe the RPO Pro was, I don't know what the hell was COVID 2018 2020 2025,
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:19.440
march
00:50:20.070 --> 00:50:28.050
2019, I guess is when they implemented the RPO program, and then COVID happened and it kind of put a real crunch and everything. Okay. Well, the
00:50:28.050 --> 00:50:48.900
reason I ask is because, you know, you're talking about 911. And I know that and I don't know the timeline of this, but I know that a lot of the New York Department started implementing peer support trained clinicians to kind of handle the aftermath.
00:50:42.780 --> 00:52:03.269
And so maybe it was my naive assumption that 911 would have brought your region of the country to the concept of peer support, and monitoring mental wellness a little bit sooner, please tell me if I'm wrong, the journey that it took from area that was so devastatingly impact from a critical incident like 911, were the Fallout was so huge between not only those that we lost that day, but then those that have been lost to cancer, even maybe suicide after that, what was it like in your region for the period of time between, you know, pre 911 were, I don't know what mental health was like there. And then, you know, as you're talking about the upswing and the number of debriefings as recently as 2019 2020, do you feel like you're region of the US, which is, you know, Aaron, and I talk, we're in the middle west, and you're over on the east coast. So do you think that because of how hard you all were hit that it changed your trajectory around treatment and recovery of mental health, or addiction?
00:52:03.628 --> 00:52:07.259
That is an unbelievable question. Because I have a story about that.
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:13.139
That's what I try. I try to answer the unbelievable questions, try
00:52:13.139 --> 00:52:14.880
to ask the unbelievable questions.
00:52:15.420 --> 00:52:22.769
I try to ask the unbelieving, I generate them. I think about them, I you spit them out. Yeah, it's a real life.
00:52:25.469 --> 00:52:40.110
So cop to cop in New Jersey was formed right around 2000 2001. Right before 911. And when 911 occurred, cop, the cop was up at the Port Authority.
00:52:35.789 --> 00:53:09.360
And doing debriefings from day one, also in New Jersey, at the time was the CISM team, you know, the critical incident stress management team that was coming up, and they were doing a debriefing as well, and they would meet on Port Authority. It was the upper deck in the parking garage. They would be meeting where we were and we see some of the same people. Hey, what's up? Hey, what's up? How you doing? And the one guy I have to mention his name, his name was rolled into candle. He was in charge of like the system team working up there. And hey, what's up? Hey, how's it going?
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:15.690
Brian? Good. Good. How's things guy? Thanks. Great. Yeah. said, you know, how you guys doing?
00:53:12.659 --> 00:53:18.539
Oh, doing here. You see my serialized stuff? We're doing good. We're doing good. Okay.
00:53:18.750 --> 00:55:34.980
Ross says, how will you do? No one had asked me. And it wasn't easy. Here, it see has since passed. But I, you know, I look back and I thank him for asking about that, because I wasn't handling anything. You know, because he knew that the Port Authority loss of people and you know, mostly people were friends. And when he had absolutely asked that, I look back to that, like, he asked that question, you know, and he was able to elicit a response or something that I needed to get out. That didn't stop me from going and drinking but I'll never forget him asking to which later on would put me in a path of what I'm doing now. You know, when I was working with cop to cop would go around and and do these presentations about the organization. And I was speaking at Jersey, New Jersey fop conference is in a Recovery Centers of America is starting a new program for first responders. They like to meet with you. Yeah, absolutely. So I sat and with this woman, sat and talked for about an hour and a half. She asked me questions, and I would tell her and I would say maybe try this. And she said, How about this? And what do you think with this? So I told her what I was involved in and I was actively involved in Basel belges and how this and our entire conversation she put her hand on my shoulder it says, Out of my heart, are you so I'm not looking at this time. I'm good to go. Then a month I reached back out to her said I think I may be interesting. I went and I interviewed on a Monday and I believe they offered me the next day to work as a treatment advocate, which is a business development specifically for the rescue program and to work as a return to work specialist to a case management so rush HQ stands for recovering emergency service community united, which is what we're trying to do, right? We're trying to unite our recovering emergency workers, and make them feel like they're a part of the community again, right, because we always feel that we're ostracized, especially if you have that stigma of being an alcoholic or drug addicts, or whatever it may be, or mental health. You know, from day one, I felt that my work had vessel wars, and my work had cop to cop got me to this point, this is where I needed to be. This is going to help me connect first responders to recovery. Our program covers police, fire, EMS, corrections, and military.
00:55:35.400 --> 00:56:58.619
And we're on the third floor of a three, four building, we have our own way. They eat together, they sleep together, they do groups together, you know, not with anybody else. And it's important for me to do that I started doing a return to work stuff, case management. And that's not a part time job, that's a full time job. I was traveling in business development, I made sure I got my name and face out there as well as the company and what we were doing, which I thought was very special. You know, back in the east coast here, people would always go out of state, in my whole feelings, I don't care where you go, as long as you get recovery somewhere, and I've carried out to me with his day, but it gives them an option to have recovery in New Jersey, and have family be part of your recovery. I've helped people get out of state to certain places to go. Because if that's what you need, that's what you need, I don't really care, then at that point, if you come to me or not, absolutely, I want you to come to my facility. And so I can help you. But you need to get recovery somewhere, let me help you get it somehow. And we also have a rescue IOP, which is great. Because having an IOP for just first responders is good because a lot of guys just like anything else don't want to sit in a group with someone else and explain the stuff that's bothering them. They just can't do that. Whether it be that police officer or that Afghan Iraqi vet, or Vietnam vet, which we had many come through our program started June 7 of 2021.
00:56:59.010 --> 00:57:02.010
RCA had been around for a while.
00:56:59.010 --> 00:57:08.849
But that's when the rescue program at Raritan Bay was initiated. And today we've had close to 220 people come through those doors. Wow,
00:57:08.878 --> 00:57:25.018
that's phenomenal numbers in a very short period of time. I mean, that I would love to see what your marketing campaign looked like. Just because
00:57:25.050 --> 00:57:29.070
he is. He's the billboard.
00:57:25.050 --> 00:57:29.070
You're like,
00:57:30.809 --> 00:58:09.809
Hey, everybody. And so that right there that speaks volumes, right, because those numbers are huge. And the idea that they came through the door, they stayed long enough to get counted, they completed treatment, they went to that next phase of recovery. Like that's a testament to not only the work that you did to get them in the door, but the work that your facility was doing once they were in the door, because you know better than we do. If it's a bullshit program, they're not staying.
00:58:10.469 --> 00:58:35.460
So great points there, I would love to take all the credit. But we have a team of about 14 or 15 business development officers from New York, New Jersey region, that have also helped us to get people in our program and help put the word out. Those numbers count from anyone who have spent one day up to 40 days with us, as well as you know, as rose, I do, some people just didn't get it, or just don't get time their
00:58:35.460 --> 00:58:37.289
time. Right.
00:58:38.550 --> 00:58:39.389
seeds have been
00:58:39.389 --> 00:58:55.289
planted, right. But I will say to this day, five people have passed that have come through our program and completed the program, which is very saddening, but I always used to always that guy that always left life or death bullshit, and you just get drunk. That's not life or death.
00:58:55.679 --> 00:59:25.800
But I actually have gotten to see with my eyes now and it scares the hell out of me. And I try to use it as a teaching moment for all those that are in there. So that they get to see it as well. And they're able to identify it and relate that, you know, at some point, this could be them. Like to think there's some special work that happens up there. Our primary therapist is a fire chief in Matawan, New Jersey. So he understands that component, and he's also the son of a retired Sergeant Major from the Marine Corps. So he gets it.
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:54.269
Yeah. And we also have a therapist that works with him hand in hand, who's very big with trauma and family. So they work hand in hand with each other, they're able to switch off and to do whatever for the betterment of everyone who comes to that door. Is it for everybody? No. Because you know, some people want this Some people want that, you know, my whole thing is like, Listen, I don't want to hear the the eggs are running the beds too hard and the lights too bright. You hear for recovery, not a fucking rich call. If you want that kind of stuff, find another place that will give it to you.
00:59:51.389 --> 00:59:59.250
Because unfortunately, we're not going to be that place. If you want recovery. I'm going to guarantee you that you're going to get your your recovery here.
00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:28.889
It's up to you You'd help implement that program. With the help of us. This is about help it gets in the door. For me, being a Marine, being a police officer and being someone in recovery, I take a lot of shit personal that before, during and after. Because once there and I run a group on Wednesdays for rescue resources help facilitate on Wednesday night to help facilitate a guest speaker that's in the first responder community come in and talk to them, somebody who they've never met somebody who's not talking to them every day, someone who they get to hear their experience, strength and hope.
01:00:29.190 --> 01:00:31.559
And it's fantastic with them.
01:00:29.190 --> 01:00:50.940
And then when they're getting out, I try to help them either get into a first responder meeting, if there are any out there and balls and badges meetings online and in person or anything else in their community. And if I know someone in a certain area where they're going to be I try to connect them with a person in that area as well. So doesn't always work.
01:00:48.150 --> 01:00:53.550
You know, some people want to help some people don't, unfortunately, yeah.
01:00:54.119 --> 01:01:06.570
Have you seen people come through and leave prematurely or against medical advice AMA and then return a second time or maybe even return a third time and get it?
01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:39.960
Yes. It's not often, we have a gentleman who works in our facility, who is a retired firefighter, who has been to numerous detoxes, numerous residentials. And he's all coming up on like four years clean, I believe now. And he's a guy that I feel like, you know, the older of he can get it, anybody can get it, but he's a walking living proof. And he talks to our first responders all the time, that he had a struggle. And he realized what he was missing and what he was doing. It was family and to himself physically, you know, he's a great example of what we do there at rescue.
01:01:40.798 --> 01:02:19.858
So as a retired law enforcement officer when knowing not even just with Elios, but first responders in general, that alcohol is so much a part of your culture. I mean, even in your own story, talking about how everything that you did was like five steps away from a bar or a beer, how have you carved out space? Or how could you see a currently active law enforcement officers or other first responders find a way to navigate still being in their career, still having that shared brotherhood, but doing it being the one who's not drinking,
01:02:20.190 --> 01:02:46.139
it's not easy, I'm gonna be honest with you. But I felt that whether it's a calling Whatever you may say, my higher power put me in a position that, you know, our program is of attraction and not promotion. So it was difficult for me when I was doing this, and I went through, you know, talk to my sponsor, my time, I still talk to him frequently about this about how am I promoting the sobriety angle for what I do, but not violating that sanctity or whatever you want to call it.
01:02:46.230 --> 01:02:54.269
And I feel like for the stigma to be broken, there needs to be people that they can show that this is me, this is what I did.
01:02:54.719 --> 01:03:57.630
And I'm here if you need something along those lines, so that guys can sit there and say, Oh, my God, he just told my story, to break the stigma when I when I usually when I go on I speak and if I say something, I'll say like, I'm a police officer, Marine Corps Veteran, and then I'll talk and I'm like, oh, yeah, I also have eight years of recovery. I go there, I just said it. I just broke that stigma. So now you know, you can see another one of us. Oh, my God, no lie there kid I used to work out with had said to me, man, you still not drinking? I said no, you should. He goes, Well, if a marine cop cut where a guy can do it, I think I can do it as good friend and he's still sober to this day because of that. So that stigma for me and for putting it out there to people like for, for that guy. I think like, I'll never get it. I know now it's right. I see people like like, hold good sobriety, I see that person I want what he has, I have to do what he does. But for a guy who sits there and says man that can never be me this see that there's another person like them, that may make them come forward a little late. Can I Can I ask you something? Yeah, what's up? You know, how do you do it? How do you are more than happy to have that conversation.
01:03:54.960 --> 01:04:25.139
Usually when I do that at a conference or something, when I talk to somebody, at least you have someone reach out to me later that day, a week later or two weeks later. But I think it's important that we have those people that are out there to show people that it's okay, I've done my time I've done my fair share, and not so good things. But I like to think now that the more I talk about it, and the more I show it out there that there may be more people that I know there are people that need that help. And maybe there'll be more people that will reach out.
01:04:26.579 --> 01:05:14.940
I love how your humility still revolves around like even in finding a way within yourself to be able to access help. There's still that element of service to others, that you are still exemplifying, you're still promoting and have taken to heart, what we talk about in recovery that somebody gave it to you and how you keep it as to give it away. What are the ways that you feel like your relationships with family spouse kids, what looks so different today from when you were actively in law enforcement prior to retirement? When you thought it looked okay, then, like, how does it look different? What's the relationships like?
01:05:15.150 --> 01:05:39.719
You remember I mentioned earlier that I had a little bit of empathy when I was doing community policing. We're going to solid program and having solid friends in recovery has given me a lot more empathy for situations and people for things. My relationship with my wife is best it's ever been my relationship with my son, even though he's not home right now is he's traveling the world is fantastic. Yeah, he's older.
01:05:39.719 --> 01:06:12.119
Now. He's 24. But not have to not worry about going to his game, because I always had a pipe band job or head is something that, you know, family was never important for me, unfortunately. And until I realized that a lot of the things that I did were so bad, I don't want someone to have to go down that road, I'll never be able to change the things that I've done, or the things that I haven't done or things that weren't there for. Because I'm still very busy. I'm still very active, and I still travel a lot. But I do that with a short one. Head Full of sobriety that my wife doesn't have to worry about what I'm doing now. As far as drinking, I'm going to be doing some stupid things have changed a lot for me.
01:06:12.690 --> 01:06:21.659
Would you say perhaps you're trustworthy? I'm about to go that far.
01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:47.909
Yeah, yes. Because she's not when I go down Atlantic City four times a year. She knows I'm not at the Irish pub for three in the morning. And a funny story about that when I was at a state delegate with the PBA. And I said, Listen, if I'm not in the hospitality room, I'm at the Irish Pub. Now. This is the days of pagers, right. So she paged me. And I call from the payphone. payphone, remember them. And I said, Hello. And she's laughing the rest of us.
01:06:44.909 --> 01:06:51.150
So what's so funny, she said, caller ID says, Irish published.
01:06:48.119 --> 01:06:51.150
And I told you, this is where
01:06:56.460 --> 01:07:18.719
I think just that, you know, you had mentioned the attraction rather than promotion. And you just really are a testament to what being vulnerable and being honest, even if it's just a few minutes, what it looks like when you accept help, you can still turn that into a way to help others.
01:07:19.559 --> 01:08:29.670
I'm just feeling moved to just say how impressed I am with how you have turned your personal experience into something that is still serving others in that area. Because I think there's a lot of sober first responders out there who are minding their business, going about their day, and they're not necessarily moved to work in this field, aware their recovery is on the front and center of their resume. And what gives them credibility. But you have, and I don't know, I personally am German, I don't know a lot about the Irish culture. But I have learned quite a bit more since I've met you. And this seems like it could have really went a different way. And you had people in your life that in the right moments, supported you and allowed you a safe space to go find the help you needed. And it changed the trajectory of your life. And in turn, change the trajectory of the clientele that you work with, and also the trajectory of your own family's life.
01:08:30.149 --> 01:09:13.828
Right. You had mentioned support before, I didn't want all this. I didn't want any of this. I just knew something had to change. I didn't ask for a circle of sober people. I knew something had to change and that change was to get sober to stop drinking. I've just been my number one supporter since I've gotten sober and it took her a few years till I was even ready to ask her to come to a regular home group celebrations. You become the balls and badges ones. To this day, she's she's still my biggest supporter. And from someone who has a couple of glasses of wine, maybe here and there. Some of the things she tells me some sometimes better than some period, some sober people I know. But she always tries to keep me on track and always reminds me No, because we never talked like we did before.
01:09:13.828 --> 01:09:24.748
And I know that sobriety has done that for me. And she's able to in a nice way to get my head out of my ass and to move forward and to just continue to do the right thing.
01:09:25.649 --> 01:09:32.668
I want to piggyback a little bit on what cinnamon had mentioned about how you show up because I couldn't agree more.
01:09:33.118 --> 01:09:58.559
And as a Chemical Dependency Counselor, one of the hardest things for me to deal with. And I of course I'm very passionate about recovery. But one of the hardest things for me to deal with is watching folks hold back or not be honest about where they are in their drinking phase, whether it's complete misuse, to abuse to just incapable of even functioning through life without drinking.
01:09:55.469 --> 01:10:42.059
The hardest thing for me is to watch them be so come added to not telling a single damn person about it, thinking that they're going to be judged and ridiculed and not supported. And my feedback for these people is often you think they don't know that alcohol is an issue, you think you don't show up to work smelling like booze. And then suddenly you don't smell like booze anymore? They know. And it saddens me because my experience is these individuals are suffering in silence. And they don't have to, they could have a support system. If only they could step over that discomfort into the vulnerability that you stepped into. I get excited to hearing you share these things.
01:10:37.559 --> 01:10:55.288
Because as many people as we can get in our corner that say, Hey, yeah, you know what alcoholic, here I am. And there's a much more free life on the other side, and it's okay to admit that drinking doesn't work for me anymore, and still have people like you and support you.
01:10:56.248 --> 01:11:01.349
So not many. Now you have a different level, a different group of people, right?
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:20.699
I like to say when people say, oh, you can't drink, I'm like, oh, no, I can. I am quite capable. It just does not go well. You know, it's that language of as if I had handcuffs on No, this is a choice. I choose not to drink.
01:11:20.729 --> 01:11:30.720
Because I know what happens when I drink. This isn't enforced, this is a choice, because I am a better version of myself not drinking.
01:11:31.319 --> 01:11:51.569
Absolutely. One of cinnamons favorite questions to ask. So I'll just hijack it is if you had unlimited resources and funds, how would you use that in the way of supporting other first responders in the way of mental health and the way of development? Is that how you would ask at Salomon?
01:11:53.220 --> 01:12:27.210
Yeah, like if you had an infinite amount of resources to support mental health, wellness, you know, substance abuse addiction, either indirectly or directly. You know, I always say like, does it help to have an extra hose? As well as a peer support? Like, what would you like to see in not just your former department or departments you've worked in, but every department what would be the universal thing that you would love each department to have access to either that would impact mental health or addiction, either directly or indirectly, peer support