Hotline Caller: Conflicted Identity

EP12-Hotline Call: Conflicted Identity

[00:00:00] 

Erin: We've got a new hotline caller and Cinnamon and I have decided that this one is pretty deep in various ways 

Cinnamon: so part of what I hear is, one, the, weaving of an identity into that first responder role, because it feels like a higher calling. The second thing I hear is the real awakening of the reality of this job, where it can have some of the same qualities as working in a factory, making widgets where you have conflict with.

Coworkers conflict with, supervisors. you get mandated, on days that you don't feel like working or don't want to work, or maybe have plans with your family that you have to be the bearer of bad news and cancel, where you are exposed to the underbelly of this, that whether it's repeatedly being exposed to trauma or it's, feeling frustrated [00:01:00] with frequent flyers, where you don't feel like the runs you're going on, are those lifesaving runs that you had expected to go on.

And then there's also the, okay, now how do I tease this apart that I've gotten this gut reality check? So first is the identity, inextricably being woven together with this first responder identity. Second is the reality of the underbelly of the job, right? Which is not necessarily what we think about, when we think about, Ooh, I wanna be a fireman or a police officer when we're four.

 and then the third part is how do I save myself from what I've created so I don't feel like 

this anymore? it's interesting because you pulled out something completely different than what I pulled out. What I pulled out was so much more about being wrapped up in this identity of being a first responder. And we see it all the time. of course there's that ego boost, [00:02:00] there's that whole stereotype, 

I'm a fireman. 

Erin: a fireman, I'm a policeman. there's that whole, 

Cinnamon: I save lives. 

Erin: I'm I'm kind of a big deal.  I deserve respect, whatever it is, right? 

Cinnamon: I enforce the law, whatever the thing is. Like, there's that whole like glamorous side of the thing that's just so wrapped up in the stereotype of what society thinks. for our first responders, but so often what I have experienced is that these folks don't know how to be husbands, fathers, friends, so many other things that are involved outside of being a first responder.

Erin: And then what happens is because they get to retire at such a quote unquote young age, then it's oh shit, I seriously just burned everything else down. And now here I am like hanging up the one thing that I have invested all of my time and energy in to for all these years. And I don't know who I am or what I'm good at, [00:03:00] or this is all I know.

And so I hear that side of things in this call.

Cinnamon: Yeah, let's listen to it one more time. It's the word disillusioned, I think that I am pondering on that's the tricky part too about the caller sometimes is that because we don't know them, it could mean various things and we can speculate all day long. So it's trying to figure out, we can formulate something that speaks to the masses. yeah, and I heard 

A three parter. Okay. So completely and inextricably tying together the job and the career to one's identity, 

Erin: Mm-hmm. 

Cinnamon: the idea of who I was as a person was completely and inextricably tied to my career. The second part is now that I'm getting burnout and disillusioned about the idea, That this is a higher calling or a service, what things should I be doing to separate my idea of who I am from [00:04:00] the job?

So it's like three And this can get so deep too, because there's this whole theory of like identity and self and ego and it all being wrapped up and what is that thing that decides, who we are? Like what is we, what is self, So it could get super duper deep, which Is very philosophical and probably not important because it's just, it's not that challenging.

Erin: But that's what I'm thinking is I'm like, oh, are we getting into this idea of self, which is very constricting. Like

Cinnamon: Ooh. That's a lot of philosophical 

work

Erin: I know, well, 

that's what I'm saying. Like, so I think that's where I get tied up where my brain goes, is this concept of identity and self. Like who is Erin? Well, Erin is a mother, Erin is a coach. Erin is a clinician, Erin is a wife, Erin is Feist, Erin is sassy. Like whatever, and that's where it's so different is that those are consistent all the [00:05:00] time.

I'm not hanging up one hat for another, which is actually bullshit. Yeah, I do hang up one hat for another, so I don't know,

Cinnamon: It's hard and there's also going to be times that you wear multiple hats

Erin: sometimes I put on my 

Cinnamon: let's not pretend that you are always taking off one hat and putting on another. 

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: I would say that maybe, here's our reality check is that we don't have a simple solution to

all the questions. Just because we do this work and we believe that we're good at it doesn't mean that we get questions that always look like, what is one plus [00:06:00] one? No, there's three components of This one question, and one focuses on the reality of the tide identity. And how easily that can happen and how it is even in some of the oaths that are taken where like you are never not a first responder. even if I'm out at dinner with my family, like I may jump up and do the Heimlich, because I know how to do that and I can stay calm in that situation.

 There's the second part about the disillusionment and the burnout where it could be seen as avoidable, it could be seen as inevitable. It could be seen in a spectrum of that where maybe it's not so far to the burnout end that I don't wanna do this job anymore. But we always talk about how we. know that our folks don't truly know what they're signing up for, right?

So what happens when you're like, [00:07:00] this is my calling, and then all of a sudden you're like, this is some bullshit. 

Erin: am disappointed and this doesn't feel like it felt right. And then the third piece is the question, how do I separate it? Like the how to, and then the double check of is that healthy? Is it healthy to separate it?

Cinnamon: what sorts of things should I be doing to separate my idea of who I am and my job? And is that healthy? 

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: yeah, I think if we were to work backwards, the easiest thing in all of that is, heck yeah, it's healthy to separate. Your work life from your personal life your

Erin: Not only is it, healthy, it's necessary, 

Cinnamon: necessary. 

Erin: right? Yeah.

Cinnamon: Necessary.

Erin: Uhhuh, because again, if we go back

to the whole concept of retirement, and this is only a blip in one's life, our careers are only a blip in our life and theirs is even a shorter length of career than most folks. So yeah, [00:08:00] that's one of the huge reasons why I would say it's healthy and necessary.

Cinnamon: you use the word blip in one's life? I think that's maybe part of the difference of this job is that it doesn't feel like a blip because you're there so much, you're doing the job so much. you're never not quote on

Erin: Well, when you're in the middle of it, it never feels like a blip, like right in the center of all of it. I was just thinking about this this morning with my kids as I'm like crying, watching some dumb reel about a dad singing a song to his little girls like. Right now when I'm in the throes of the chaos of my house and my children, oh my gosh, it feels like it's never gonna end. But in reality, they spend 10% of their life in this home. You know, really, like we got the first 18 years and by the time they're 13, they're, they're building their own. They're, yeah, they're done. And so it's so limited and we talk about logic all the time. yeah, [00:09:00] logically we know these things. And then when you're in the middle of it, it doesn't feel like it's a blip. And I get that. But the truth is, when you look back, especially once one is retired from their career, even five years into retirement, they can look back and be like, wow. know, it could either be like, wow, I've done all these things in the five years, or, wow, I've done nothing in five years, depending on the come from.

But it's still a perspective that, my career was just a portion of my life. But I hear what you're saying, but that's because it's a consuming job.

Cinnamon: that's a great word. It's consuming. and I hesitate to say that while we highlight the differences, there's also like a lot of similarities. you and I, if we looked at our conversations in the last two years, you know how, where before, like I never talked to you about work. Now it's like what [00:10:00] conversations do we have that somehow work does not come into it?

No matter what hats we're wearing, if we're co-owners, if we're co-hosts, if we're clinicians, or if we're friends, it never stops being about work. 

 Erin: So what I'm hearing you say is that we're gigantic hypocrites and we have no room to speak in this it Well, and that's the funny thing  

Cinnamon: We got no business talking about anybody 

Erin: that's the thing. It's like, I kind of want our listeners to know, like we get it because we've all but blown

up our entire quote unquote personal lives for the sake of the first responder, for the sake of this vision that we have to make sure that you guys have all the resources, all the support that you can possibly need.

And so there is that level of sacrifice. and so maybe we don't know the answer to this question because while we get it logically, when you are passionate about something, when it's ingrained in your life, when it is your [00:11:00] higher calling coming into it, and you feel it in your bones and you wake up thinking about it and you go to bed thinking about it, it is challenging to separate it.

 Now we know that when we don't separate it, and I'm saying we as in cinnamon, and I know that when we don't separate, we lose our damn minds. 

Cinnamon: Yeah. We lose that idea of self and who we are. It's like what's happening? And that's not a supportive place to be either.

and even like last night, so I was in the garage and I was on the phone with our practice manager, and my husband got home from golf league and he came in and I was immediately feeling like a little bit rude, right? Because I was on a work call. and I didn't greet him like I normally would've.

but then when I tried to make up for it and explain later when I was off the phone, he gave me a really quick kiss and he goes, I don't care. And it was a good reminder. He's like, I love [00:12:00] you. I know this is important and I don't care. And what he meant was you don't have to explain and I'm not interested.

I'm not interested to know anything about your phone call And he wasn't being disrespectful or not that he doesn't care about my passion. It was that reminder of I don't have to justify why I get consumed sometimes. , 

Erin: I'm not sure That's how I would've interpreted it if that were my husband we're all so different and have different crap that causes us to react in certain ways. You know, at the end of the day, we're 

Cinnamon: Yes, and he wasn't like rude. It was very loving. It was kind of like a little bit of laughter in it. He's like, oh babe, I don't care. keep it moving. So to me it is actually a good reminder that I need to shift gears and that I don't need to justify my passion. he knows me. He knows how this [00:13:00] drives me and how, I feel about my work and I don't need to explain. 

Erin: Well, and then I wonder if that's the difference too, for these folks. It's like they're not having to justify because it's become ingrained where it's very hard to have that separation, meaning There's so many things going on to the brain. There's so many things going on in the most basic survival skills and tactics of life with this job that it does feel a little bit different to me.

I don't know. Does that make sense, what I'm trying to say?

Cinnamon: Yeah. okay. So let me throw out this example and see if this is a little bit what you're getting at. If I'm a police officer, I 

have the power of the law, right? it is in the best interest of the civilian to obey my orders, so when I tell someone to do something, whether it's a civilian that needs to follow, my directives, or it's a direct report following what I say [00:14:00] because of the chain of hierarchy or the understanding that if my supervisor, tells me what to do, I know I'm going to do it.

But then I go home and I've got a five year old and a seven year old who don't do what I say, 

Erin: Ever...who you can't arrest. 

Cinnamon: right? You can't arrest, they can talk back. there aren't those severe consequences. There's not that same fear of disobeying, unless treat them in that way. So you not only have that expectation, I follow orders and other people follow my orders, and now these little shits who live in my house rent free and eat my food are gonna tell me no.

So I'm gonna take it up a notch because I can't believe you had the audacity, and so I'm going to treat you like a civilian that did not follow my orders. And that isn't intentional and isn't even conscious. It [00:15:00] just looks like. Why are my kids like this? And I'm like, because all kids are like this, 

Erin: True. 

Cinnamon: right?

one of the last times that, Aaron and I were at my parents' house, my dad said to Aaron while pointing at me, looking at Erin, she was a brat. 

Erin: Mm-hmm. 

Cinnamon: And this was weeks ago, right Erin? And it is still right there. 

Erin: Stinging. 

Cinnamon: and I'm closer to 50 than I am any other age at this point, other than my one age that I actually am.

 And it wasn't until yesterday my parents and I had this, slightly heated discussion about birthday cakes and. I was not pleased with how it ended, and then I said to my husband last night, I had an aha moment when I didn't do what my dad thought I should do according to his rules.

Then I was a brat, but my MO in [00:16:00] my family unit was, I fought back. I was the fighter for justice, which was perfect because that's who I am now, right? I'm a social worker, so if I thought that it was not okay, or it was wrong or it was unfair, I let my voice be heard where maybe my sisters were more inclined to just go with the flow because it was easier for me.

That was not easier. That was actually so much more difficult. Because I did not like injustice. And so registering, I'm not a brat. I've never been a brat. What I am is not, what's the word I'm looking for? 

Erin: Not a doormat. 

Cinnamon: I'm not a pushover. I'm not a doormat. I'm not a silent, do as I say and follow. So interesting revelation, and all of a sudden I was like, super okay with being a brat.

Erin: [00:17:00] so you just hit on a really, really interesting key point too. When we're talking about identity, if we can scam back through our lives, we have held many identities, the defiant toddler, the rebel teenager, the smart studious scholar, the athlete, the whatever that was for each of us.

And so that's what's so fascinating about identity and I I kind of go back to the concept of the blip in time, is prior to anyone holding their career as a first responder, they had a different identity. What was that identity? 

Cinnamon: And did you like it? 

Erin: And did you like it? Yes. 

Cinnamon: Was it a positive or 

Erin: Mm-hmm. And so what that says to me is that identities can change and morph and shift through different phases of our lives.

 And one of the things that I love to say that we say all the time, my husband and I, you and I, cinnamon is everything is temporary. Everything is temporary. [00:18:00] And when we're in it, it feels like this is it, this is the big one, and it's permanent,but everything, shifts and morphs and is temporary. So, yes, there is the role and the stereotypes that society puts on our first responders. putting 'em on a pedestal, labeling them as heroes and everything else. And that can feel real good until there's this disillusionment like, mm. Yeah, but

Cinnamon: I just thought of something. 

Erin: what...

Cinnamon: So da da da Let's talk a minute about childhood trauma 

Erin: and she always figures out a way. 

Cinnamon: and we always get it back around. So if you think about it, the percentage of, adult US citizens or Americans, however we wanna call that, that have experienced at least one adverse childhood experience 

is 61%, right? 

Erin: I feel like it, that's seems low to me. 

Cinnamon: it does. I'm like, are you sure? But I mean, 

Erin: You didn't have an alcoholic dad. are you sure? 

Cinnamon: [00:19:00] Right. Or your parents aren't divorced. but then you look at police and their number is 68, right? So even they have a 7% increase. But again, we know that law enforcement does not always tell the truth on these self reports. and so they tend to be very low because there's more to lose.

But then you go to the fire and they are at 86%. So if we are saying that our first responders have higher adverse childhood experiences, then it is logical to think that maybe a previous identity wasn't so flattering, wasn't positive. So now they take on this superhero identity of a first responder where they go out and save lives and protect life and property and all of that good stuff.

 And they've arrived they're not a brat, they're not lazy, they're not, whatever it is. And [00:20:00] then the disillusionment comes and it's like son of a bitch, 

Erin: Duped again, 

Cinnamon: duped again. So now I've done all of these things to merge my identity beyond the point of where I can even see the lines, right?

 it's like yellow and blue. Don't just go side by side. You got a whole lot of purple in there now. And how do I undo this

Erin: why purple? Why not green? 

Cinnamon: yellow and oh shit, I totally mess that. You're like, what do you not know about primary colors? Yes. So you've got, cuz I was thinking siren colors, right? So you've got this old identity, this new identity, and now it's just merged so far that you can't see the borders of either.

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: And you're like, shit, How do I separate the idea of who I am from the job because 

Erin: thought this was who [00:21:00] I am. 

Cinnamon: I thought this was gonna be the thing that saved me. 

Erin: Like This was the final thing. This was it.

Cinnamon: This was the final good thing. 

Erin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Cinnamon: And so then we go to the question of how do I 

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: and is that healthy? So yes, of course 

Erin: what I wanna say, and it is healthy.

and what I wanna say is like, First responders are not the only ones to lose their self in the identity of their career, ever. I mean, so many people do

it you. see it often in the world of, actors and people that are in the limelight all the time in that capacity. You know? And and I'm thinking like, you

see people get busted out all the time on social media because they smoked a cigarette and they're like, oh my God, Harry Potter smoked cigarettes. You know? I don't know that, I'm not saying that. I'm not claiming that he does.

Cinnamon: poor Daniel Radcliffe is Like what the hell you, I don't...

Erin: but do you know what I mean? It's like, well, yeah, cuz they're human beings outside of their job. that's what [00:22:00] I think that is important for our listeners to hear is like you are a human being outside of your job, just like the rest of us.

Cinnamon: that leads me to think about professional athletes, when they have opinions, people are like, go back to just bouncing the ball. 

Erin: Mm. 

Cinnamon: And the main thing is that. We are whole people, and what we do professionally is just one factor and then the idea of get back in your stable, right? get back in your box of what I know you for 

Erin: Mm-hmm. 

Cinnamon: you don't get to be a person. you just get to be this one thing. But the reality is like I have lots of opinions on lots of things. That go far beyond my work. 

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: I have people that depend on me far beyond the scope of my job.

I'm people's person that have nothing to do with my [00:23:00] work. And we get to offer that same grace to each other and to ourselves. And I think now the question is how do I separate, now that I've enmeshed my identities, how do I tease them back apart? 

Erin: For me, it's reverse engineering 

Cinnamon: Ooh. 

Erin: it goes back to

what I said a few minutes ago consider all of the things that were your identity or that were your passion or that brought you joy or that you were good at, throughout your life.

Cinnamon: I just showed air in my mug and it says Connect, 

Erin: which is what we do. 

Cinnamon: her favorite word. 

Erin: so yeah, it's that reverse engineering of like first things first, I'm an advocate of pen to paper, pen to paper.

 Write down all of the things that you were once. Identified as, or that you identified yourself as it is more than that. there's so much more, you know, one column is [00:24:00] all of the roles that I've played in my life, that I have felt that I've played in my life. All the roles that other people think that I've played in my life are expected of me.

And then all of the things that I love to do outside of my career right now. You know, like getting this visual idea of there's been so much more, there is so much more currently and there will be so much more, you know, maybe a column that's like all of the things that I would like to create in my future. You know, I feel like really getting that down.

Cinnamon: getting it out of your head and being intentional about it. earlier when you were talking, you were describing yourself and you're like, I am, a coach. I'm a clinician, I'm a wife, I'm a mother. I'm feisty, I'm sassy. when we talk about identity, a lot of times we talk about it in terms of those roles, but what you highlighted were the personality traits.

Erin: Mm-hmm. 

Cinnamon: Like one of my big 

things is I'm a reader, if I don't pay attention to [00:25:00] that aspect of my identity, I may go too long 

without picking up a book. 

Erin: Mm-hmm. 

Cinnamon: But listening or reading books it's my safe place. It's where I can go to another world and indulge in somebody else's 

Erin: Yeah, 

Cinnamon: not just my own. literally this morning finished a book called Napoleon's Hemorrhoids.

Erin: I can only 

Cinnamon: No, I'm not even joking. let me just share this real quick. it was Napoleon's hemorrhoids and other small events that changed history and is that my typical book? Absolutely not. You, 

Erin: but...did you love it? Absolutely 

Cinnamon: I loved it it was so interesting and so different and if I lost my place, I could still, I could still pick it back up, right?

 So if I forget or don't put on that list that [00:26:00] I'm a reader, then I've lost a resource for myself, I've lost one of my tools, one of my self-care methods. If I. Don't acknowledge that I'm feisty or I'm sassy or I'm direct. Then sometimes my personality doesn't make sense to other people, 

Erin: Mm-hmm. 

Cinnamon: Or I might wanna make excuses for how I come across and I don't need an excuse for how I come across. The reason I come across, the way I come across 

is because of who I am, and if I try to be a different kind of person, I lose part of that identity and I lose that 

effectiveness. 

Erin: Yeah. So it's really getting to the core of the matter. Who are you really? I. What are the traits, what are the things that make you, you at your core? And I talk about this with my coaching clients. we break apart the domains of their life and we [00:27:00] create vision and goals in each domain. But the thing that actually begins this process is looking at the core values, the core of that area of their life.

Like why is that important to you? what is it about you that these are non-negotiable factors in your life. in in order to do that, you have to reverse engineer it. Like that's the only way. yeah. So keeping that in mind that we are much more than the first responder or the clinician we are all of these other things.

Cinnamon: Or the banker or the musician. I just rhymed. Did you get that? 

Erin: Oh no. 

Cinnamon: The first responder or the clinician or the  banker or the musician? Do you hear that? It rhymes. I'm a poet and you didn't know 

Erin: and your next identity will be a rapper. 

Cinnamon: Right? Okay. We have a long way

Erin: I, I, am the, I am the rapper of the two of us

Cinnamon: We're We have not quite 

Erin: at [00:28:00] Geneva's we were the outtake reels?

Cinnamon: oh yes. The out. Yeah. You're good at so many things. Wrapping is not one of them, but I could totally see you doing some 

wicked slam poetry. 

Erin: Thanks friend. Now I know it's something else I can do.

Cinnamon: You're welcome. That's right.  Put Slam Poet on your list. 

Erin: So I, gave one example of how how do I do this? know, there's so many, it's like we can't just throw out all the different ideas of how to separate this and how to something new except for the fact that there's proof because we've done it. You know? mean, that's, that's like what I keep going back It's like there's proof

because we have changed our identities so many times in our lives, And so 

what that feels like to me is like all is not lost. There is opportunity to explore. that is important to you to explore it.

Cinnamon: and I [00:29:00] think what I'm taking from this hotline call is I. Not necessarily the how to section like the answer to that last question, but just the fact that we know that this is common and one person shared their experience and a whole lot of other people can relate that they made this job their identity, and then there was a level of disillusionment and burnout, and that now there is the dilemma of what gets to be done to get someone back on balance.

And so maybe for this caller, they were in a place where they were ready for the step three of this, which is the how to. 

Erin: Mm-hmm. 

Cinnamon: But I would like our listeners to take away if they are, in a different place in this process. The fact that this is a common thing, not only among first responders, but among people in general who have careers that they're passionate about.

and in terms of the identity piece that there's [00:30:00] also the crash of when that idealized role starts to create burnout and disillusionment from, this is my calling, 

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: and if you're there, then hear us when we say that you're not alone. Not even just among first responders, but we get it too.

Human beings. And if you've listened to a lot of our episodes, hopefully all of our episodes, if this is your first one, go back. We've got a couple behind this one. I think what we. always talking about, to speak, is how to separate that identity, how to unease the results and or consequences of this job. 

Erin: Yeah, and also makes me think that if you are new, if you're only a year, 2, 3, 5, in that this is a great opportunity to begin to break down the different. Domains of your life outside of career. And when I say domains, I'm talking about relationship, [00:31:00] I'm talking about finances. I'm talking about personal, like physical and mental health.

I'm talking about, contribution and giving back to the world in the community, friends and family. There's so many different categories where spirituality is huge.

Yeah. Where you can take a look and really catch it before it takes over. 

Cinnamon: Yeah. 

Erin: To break down, 

Cinnamon: proactive. Rather than just reactive. 

Erin: break down different areas of your life so that you can prevent. And, it's no guarantee, but it's an option. It's something that could potentially help.

Cinnamon: Yeah. It increases your likelihood of being able to stave off disillusionment and burnout to the degree that it becomes career or diagnosis inducing. 

Erin: you go. Exactly. Yeah. 

Cinnamon: This just got real warm, didn't it? Like it just felt real like, oh wow. Like, oh, I'm looking at you while I'm [00:32:00] feeling what I'm feeling. was just like, oh hell, that just hit somehow. 

Erin: yeah, and it also got me thinking of like, what we resist persists. You know, it's like, I really acknowledge this caller because man, first of all, profound insight. Profound honesty and this level of like, I'm noticing this is a thing and I don't want to resist it. Hence the reason I'm talking about it.

Because when we resist these feelings, these emotions, these concerns, these thoughts, like one, it can create more chaos in our life and it can prevent any solution from occurring. And so yeah, it's, 

Cinnamon: Yeah, you can't solve a problem unless you acknowledge 

Erin: exactly. And that how fantastic. So keep it up callers, listeners, and you guys got to see a real side of me and cinnamon today being just the human beings that we are.[00:33:00] 

Cinnamon: I know.

Erin: But it's just case in point,right. 

Cinnamon: We're not exempt 

Erin: No one is exempt from these feelings, but isolation, keeping these things to yourself is not the answer by any stretch.

Cinnamon: that we have it all together. 

Erin: What are you pretending not to know? Cinnamon. 

Cinnamon: Ooh, zing, that's a 

flashback. 

Erin: So,

Cinnamon: What are you pretending not to know? And that is, I've found that can be a very, provoking question to ask oneself. I have 

asked clients that, 

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Cinnamon: in that answer that you just gave me, what are you pretending not to know?

Erin: And this caller knows something. 

Cinnamon: Some things 

Erin: Yeah. So, 

okay. Well, let's go put our other hat on and be 

Cinnamon: that's, 

Erin: and,

Cinnamon: yeah. Well, before I can be a clinician, I have to be a dog mom. 

Erin: oh. Yeah, which you guys haven't heard Ben in the background as much. He's [00:34:00] weeping in the corner somewhere, I'm sure in 

 Cinnamon: Yeah, he is, he's been nixed. He's too distracting and loud. 

Erin: with his little tap shoes on. Speaking of dogs, I hear mine up there. 

Cinnamon: right, 

Erin: right, so 

Cinnamon: Okay. Go handle Mario.