Mythbusters-Therapy Edition: Debunking the Myths that Keep Folks Stuck

Ep2-MythBusters 

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

therapist, people, therapy, first responders, problems, feel, myth, critical incident, bad, hear, talk, find, advice, solve, friends, confidentiality, parents, brain, situation, belief

Cinnamon 00:01

So welcome to slow jams, we're going to turn it down now, we're going to talk a little bit about the myths of therapy. 

Erin 00:08

Ideally, this will help people see like, it's not what you think it is. And even if it is what you think it is, try it anyways, because it's sure shit better than feeling bad. 

Cinnamon 00:19

I love those folks who are like, Well, yeah, I'm in therapy. Do you know what I do? Of course, I'm in therapy. And so this isn't really about anybody else. 

Erin 00:29

Myth bust one is…

Cinnamon: 00:31

You don't have to be crazy to hang out with us. You're gonna do it. And we definitely encourage you to try it out. Be open minded. Do not set yourself up to lose by going in there with the intent to bust it.

Hosts: 00:51

It's the first responder, the first to get the call. The first unseen, greeted by God knows what pushed beyond the limits that they don't even set. Then what happens you're listening to after the tone straw. We're your hosts. I'm Cinnamon, a first responder trauma therapist who founded our practice after seeing the need for specialist care following a local line of duty death. And I'm Erin. I'm a first responder integration coach. We help first responders receive transformational training, therapy and coaching. Now we come to you to explore, demystify, and destigmatize mental health and wellness for first responders. Our show brings you stories from real first responders, the tools they've learned, the changes they've made, and the lives they now get to live.

Erin 01:52

The whole Mythbusters idea is a lot of fun. Actually, it is, especially for people like us who are advocates, and we're like, everybody could use therapy. 

Cinnamon 02:02

So welcome to slow jams. We're going to turn it down. Now. We're going to talk a little bit about the myths of therapy and bow chicka bow wow.

Erin 02:09

The myths of therapy. Like, this will be the next series of Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel is people being convinced that therapy works.

Cinnamon 02:24

I like that. So Erin, why are we doing a Mythbusters Around therapy? 

Erin 02:31

Couple reasons. One, it's super easy for podcasts, like after the tones drop to feel like heavy and dark. And the truth is it is serious stuff. But also, we can still have fun and still have joy in our lives. While talking about all this stuff. 

Cinnamon 02:52

Well, people say all the time, like oh my god, your job has to be so hard. I can't imagine how you hear about all this stuff every day. But the reality is I look we laugh in sessions like obviously, we also do some crying. 

Erin 03:37

And we definitely don't laugh at this stuff. that shouldn't be laughed at, 

Cinnamon 03:10

Yes, there's a time and a place. But it's not as if every single moment is dark and heavy. And I think a lot of people who have never been to therapy, you know, they see it on TV, or they took a psychology class in college and they can think of like Freud. So just even on here, I would hope that people figure out that therapists don't have to look a certain way and can be, you know, humorous and personable. But also, like this is, man, this is how we act when we're in session two, right. 

Erin 03:46

So what you see is what you get, yeah, we're not just all like wearing our glasses, with our little notepad sitting in a corner while you lay on a couch while you lay on it. There's no couch laying here. Hey, wait, okay, there's chaise laying.

Cinnamon 04:02

I do have a chaise lounge, but everybody loves it. So, especially after a long day at work, you just kick back and relax. But it's not like what definitely what you see on TV. It's not right, like we're making eye contact. If one chooses, like, I'm my face isn't down in a notebook. You know where I'm going? Hmm, interesting. Tell me more. Or, you know, like, tell me about your parents, although I do ask sometimes, but we'll get to that in the myths. 

Erin 04:31

Yeah. So as sick as it is people that are already clinicians, you know, we watch our child go through a hard time or people were on us that we love and especially our children, it's just kind of like, well, I'm just getting ready to get them ready for therapy. Yeah, give them something to talk about with their therapist. 

Cinnamon 04:49

Well, and I think that there are probably a lot of people in my life that either confront me and like my husband is really good at this stop therapy, Cinnamon. And I don't even know I'm doing it. I just like that is who I am and how I ask questions and my curiosity and how I, you know, encourage people to talk about problems But then I think there's got to be other people who don't even know that it's happening. And I, and I'm not sitting here like diagnosing the entire world. But I do think that once you kind of do this the same way I see our first responders, that are, if my kid is a paramedic, and my blood pressure is going off the charts, I'm probably gonna say, can you check like do? Are we having an emergency, right? So I think people do kind of expect us to at least have a third eye of some kind. But I do love those moments where I can just like, be like, Man, that has some fucked up shit, I'm really sorry that you're going through that. And I don't even know what to tell you to do. Where you just get to be human. 

Erin 06:03

Exactly. And really, it's not our job to tell people to do anything, right? Definitely not me as a coach, it's not my job to tell you to do anything. It is my job to support you in finding the answers. But we'll get into that later about the difference between therapy and coaching. But nonetheless, we just thought it'd be fun to kind of like talk about some of the things that we have heard people say, or we've seen throughout the years about the myths of therapy. And ideally, this will help people see like, it's not what you think it is. Yeah, and even if it is what you think it is, try it anyways, because it's sure shit better than feeling bad.

Cinnamon 06:42

Absolutely. And here's the other thing like we are not cut out, right. So just because you have a poor experience with one therapist doesn't mean that there isn't a therapist out there that you can connect with. And it'd be really effective. And also, if you've connected with a great therapist on your first try, and then for whatever reason, that therapeutic relationship ends, and you have to find another therapist, you can connect with another person, another therapist, who isn't the same as that first one. So maybe it's not the second one you try, maybe not even the third one. But I think a lot of people have the belief that they can only go to one therapist at a time. And, you know, because of insurance. But one of the ways that I would say this, is you get to interview a therapist, yes, there's some legwork that you have to do as far as like intake documents, and whatever. But I don't see any problem with someone going to a therapist, saying I will let you know, if I want to schedule another appointment. And then, you know, going to two or three different therapists to see, okay, what feels the best for me, it's if it doesn't feel like a good fit, please move on. Find another therapist, and part of our responsibility is also telling you if it's not a good fit, yes, no, we are human. And we are dealing with our own implicit biases and our own life experiences. And we may encounter somebody in therapy that we know right away or No, a little bit down the road, I am not going to be helpful for this person. And so it becomes my responsibility to share that with a client, just like it's a client's responsibility to share it with me. 

Erin 08:31

So did you just kind of throw in a mythbuster? Right there when you said, people think that they can't shop around because of insurance? Yes, you just did. They just did that. I don't even know if that's on our list or not. But you know what, which one is that is? Obviously there's a couple on here that are my favorite. But please, I love this whole line of like, well, only crazy people or mental people need to talk to therapists. And I haven't lost my mind yet. And I'm not having a nervous breakdown. So I don't need a therapist. 

Cinnamon 09:03

Can I add in there? This is a direct quote from so many people. It's not like I'm suicidal. Like we raise the bar, a little bit like trust and believe that that's not going to be when you're reaching out. So you don't have to be any particular thing. You can just say, hey, things are going well. And I want to keep them that way. So when I have a critical incident, I'm going to check in with a therapist. I'm going to develop a relationship with a therapist. And that way I have the ability to go somewhere just to debrief just to get it off my chest just to process that with somebody outside of the realm of who responded. So I can take care of it. It's done, processed put away when I go out on my next run.

Erin 09:59

If you're a human being with a pulse, there's something in there that it would be beneficial to have a therapist because therapy isn't about necessarily getting fixed. Now, of course, like when there is an obvious problem, going to fix the problem and come up with some solutions, of course, have a treatment plan, of course. But also, even if something isn't going arwy right now, having that preparedness to know like what you were saying with critical incidents in primary care physician? Yeah, I don't get one just when I'm sick. Uh huh. I establish care when I move to a new place film. So yeah, you don't have to be crazy or mental or be having a nervous breakdown or be suicidal, or feeling like you're losing your mind. You don't have to wait until it gets that far in order to utilize therapy. So mythbuster. One is, you don't have to be crazy to hang out with us. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it helps. But

Cinnamon 11:01

just know, but I think, yeah, it's not because something is wrong. And I have a therapist, most of the therapists I know, have a therapists. Yeah, it's really about, you know, I say, a lot of times, I'm a puke bucket, because people just vomit, right? And then I get to take my puke bucket, and go dump it into somebody else's puke bucket. And while we're doing that, we still get that feedback of like, that sounds really hard, or I'm sure it's difficult for you, or holy shit, I cannot believe you're still here standing, you know, like we're at validates that you're having a thing happen because bad things happened. And that is one difference about specializing and this group, is I don't always deal with people that have like those organic mood disorders. And yes, they are among the entire population. So first responders are not exempt from that. But really, what people come and see me for is the things that they've witnessed, or that have happened to them over the course of the job, or whether it's cumulative or chronic, or something acute, but it's not because like, I don't treat some lay person off the street who's been struggling with anxiety their whole lives. That's not what I see, what I see is I've been doing this job enough and long enough, that it's messing with me. And I need to talk to somebody about it. Or I've watched other people go down this path. And I don't want to. So I want to get ahead of the game. And I had, you know, I've talked to younger folks. And they're like, I can't believe I'm here already. And I'm like, No, you're here right on time. You figured it out. You have a bad call, you have a bad run, you come deal with it. Don't wait until you have 15 or 20 years of cumulative critical incidents and two divorces, and your kids aren't talking to you. And kid gets married or graduates and you all can't sit at a table together because it's so much tension. Right? And we know that that happens. You probably know someone that I tap into. Mm hmm. All right. So you don't need to be crazy to hang out with us. 

Erin 13:26

Yeah, definitely not. What about and this was touched on in episode one, the weakness? Yeah, the P word. But we don't call it the P word. Yeah, we're not gonna call it the P word. Or this idea that people that go to therapy are weak, and they don't have enough willpower. And they should be able to solve their own problems, or I can solve my own problem. So I don't need a therapist. 

Cinnamon 13:52

What comes to mind is that idea of like, I'm great at giving advice, but I can't take it. 

Erin 13:59

My dad has that line. He needs a t shirt made. So I think I'll get it says, Take my advice. I'm not using it. Which is such a dad joke, but also very true.

Cinnamon 14:11

Yeah. And part of that is like, of course, we don't like when we have a dog in the fight, whatever objectivity we have. And looking at our friends situation, where we're like, oh, well, it's clear as day you should do this. When all of a sudden, you're the one that has the dog in the fight, and it's your dog that can get injured or can lose, then we're not so go get them over that simple answer. We're going to be like, Yeah, but what right, we start weighing the the negatives that can happen. And so the reality is, is we shouldn't just solve our own problems. It's not a should. And so therefore, it's just we have our own problems. And sometimes we can solve them on our own and sometimes comes time solves them. And sometimes it helps to get a neutral third party involved to bounce things off of. Yeah. And we don't give advice I learned a long time ago, I used to be a domestic violence counselor. And one of the things that I learned initially was you don't give advice? Because God forbid you they take it. Right. And it goes wrong. Uh huh. You have to trust your clients to know, ultimately, what is best for them. Yeah. And so we can plan we can make suggestions. But we, we don't give advice. Like that's not our role here. That's to help tease out the problem. So you feel like you've got a solution? Yeah, that works for you. 

Erin 15:45

And anybody that's listening that's ever worked with me. And Cinnamon knows too… the thing I say all the time is you can't get yourself out of a situation with the same brain that got you into a situation, Meaning, you only have a certain amount of tools within your toolbox at any given moment. And so the idea of going outside of yourself, to therapy to a friend to a coach to whomever but since we're talking about mythbusting therapy, we'll say therapy for this is this idea of getting a couple of extra tools and your tool belt so that you can have a perspective change, be able to see things through a different lens and a little bit differently. So in a way, that does mean you're solving your own problems, like that's exactly what you're doing, you are solving your own problems with just an upgraded toolkit.

Cinnamon 16:34

And what we know about the brain, when it comes to stress, and when there's a potential threat, right? Whether it's, I don't want to get in trouble at work, I don't want to get in trouble at home, I What do I do, when we identify a thread, there's a part of our brain that's going to go offline, and it's not as accessible. So it's not that you can't solve your own problems. But when you are in the middle of a problem, you may not have access to your logic, your moral compass, your beliefs, your imagination, your intellect, all of those things, for good reason that we will get to that one day, we'll have that episode is going to compromise your ability to do the things that you can do when it's somebody else's problem. Because the threat is for you, not your friend, but when it's your friends relationship, your friends job, then we are as wise as all get out. And that contributes to why it's always helpful to have somebody else help you solve those problems in tandem. 

Erin 17:41

Yeah. So what about this idea of you go to therapy, that means you're weak, that means you're the P word

Cinnamon 17:47

Well shit, then I'm weak. I know me too. And if I'm weak, why the hell are people coming to talk to me to figure out? You know, again, I also hear like what's okay for them, but it's not okay for me. And so I would say it's not even for people that are weak. But if I go, I'm weak, right? It's it's both, but I definitely think that there's more of a personalization to it. And to me, and I will say this over and over and over again, the ability to step in to a situation where you say, I do not have all the answers, and I need some support and assistance. And getting through this chunk of time, this situation, that level of vulnerability takes way more strength than saying, I'm fine, I'm fine. No, no problem. I got this, that to me to be able to say, I'm putting myself out there, where you can judge me. And my character is strong enough to endure that. And what's most important is my well being not what you think of me. That is what takes balls. Not saying I’m fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. 

Erin

Well, yeah, and what you just said about this judgment, that is another myth. This other idea, this myth that therapists they're gonna interrogate me, they're gonna shame me. They're gonna make me feel judged. That is another myth that I've noticed floating around there. 

Cinnamon

Yeah, and I could go off on a tangent about how I can't make you feel any I now me too, but that was, again, a bookmark that for another episode, if that's our goal, right? Like, how effective would be beating you down with the proverbial bass bat be if we're trying 

Erin

Bass bat? 

Cinnamon

Baseball bat. Thank you, a bass bat. Do you don't know what a bass that is? Oh, you should probably Google that…

Erin

She shaming me. 

Cinamon 19:56

Just like I'm not smart enough to know what a base that is. I'm gonna write that down in my notebook.

Erin  20:00

While I sit on my couch with my glasses on my chair in the corner. 

Cinnamon 20:09

Yeah, we're not here to judge anyone that have no interest now. 

Erin

And what's interesting is like, people think that their problems are unique, and that they need to harbor these secrets. And there's really very little, that's shocking, I noticed cinnamon anymore that she hasn't heard over and over and over again.

Cinnamon 20:29

So I want to kind of hone in on this very particular situation that I encounter a lot. And I think it ties directly into that judgment piece. I think there's a lot of things that we think that we don't say, because we think only bad people think those things. Right? Like, I don't want to say it because Oh, my God, it makes me sound like such a bad person. And the reality is, I haven't met a bad person. I've I've encountered bad decisions, and bad choices. But I haven't encountered bad people. And of all of those good people, they have always had those thoughts that they felt were only associated with bad people. And so what we see is, if I think these thoughts, I must be bad. What we don't see is, I'm a good person, and I'm thinking these thoughts. So it doesn't take a bad person to think these thoughts. And so a lot of times, I will come out in a session and say something very directly, like, so it sounds like you're concerned whether or not this marriage will last? Or it sounds like you are enjoying conversations with other people of the opposite sex, because of you know, whatever's happening at home. And people always want to, like shy away from that. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is it. This is the moment, we get to be truthful, and we get to work it out. It doesn't make you a bad person. We're not worrying about filtering what we have to say to not hurt somebody else's feelings. We get to acknowledge that good people have all kinds of thoughts. And if we don't get honest, we don't get to go anywhere. If we're so worried about what it means about us, if we say that, that we don't, then we can't really deal with the problem. And whether that's in a couple session or an individual session, people have a hard time acknowledging that their truth is something that they would relate to only what a bad person would think. And that's just not true. Good people have all kinds of thoughts. And maybe it would be hurtful to someone else if they knew. But that's why we do confidentiality, right? 

Erin

We're not going to call your wife

Cinnamon

No, or your husband or your mom, or your mom or your sister or your brother or your kids or anybody. Yeah, like, it really is if we can't be honest. And so when people are really surprised when I'm like, I don't feel the need to judge. I don't say that because that's supposed to be the company line of a therapist. I say that because I've seen so much that judging has no value. I have decided that everybody is got a legit reason for what they do, especially when it comes to mental health, even if it was what we would consider a bad decision.

AD 23:30

Hey there listener. If you could ask any question or freely talk about any challenge related to being on a job and no one would know, what would you say? We are excited to share about our confidential hotline that we created just for you. Through this confidential hotline, you can leave a message sharing a success, a struggle, or simply ask a question. We will spotlight calls and offer feedback and insight from a licensed therapist and a certified coach who work exclusively with first responders. You can access our hotline voicemail by visiting after the tone strop.com and clicking the voicemail tab. Additionally, you can join our mailing list if you'd like or easily follow us on Facebook and Instagram for all the most recent updates. You know the drill telephone tell a friend tell a first responder

Erin 24:39

Yeah, so there's always an opportunity to come back from a bad decision loop. What's next what? What is one myth? Cinnamon that stands out for you.

Cinnamon 24:54

I think one that I hear a lot is like how long is this going to take? So Whether they're expecting to feel better immediately after they start, which sometimes you can, just finally taking the plunge meeting with a therapist, you can feel better. But like, that's not necessarily what we're going to look at. But I also think that a lot of people think that they have to go to therapy forever. Like, it's like one of those things that once I start, I can't jump off. Or we're just going to keep finding more and more problems. And I don't think that that's necessarily true. But I also think that it can be true and can be beneficial. So, you know, we deal with a lot of folks who may be come to see us initially for critical incidents. And what we find is, after we get through their treatment plan….

Erin 25:46

Ben is walking around like he is in charge of the whole place, Ben is the dog, the pug.

Cinnamon 25:54

So when they come in for the critical incident, and we, you know, kind of identify with their treatment plan is what the course of treatment is, then we might get to the end of that, and they may want to set up what we would call like a maintenance schedule. So whether that's like once a month, once every six weeks, once every six months, it's the idea that our first responders are going to go back to work. And any given day, they're going to have another critical incident or another event.

Cinnamon 26:30

And so it's not that, Oh, you're so broke, that you you're going to take a lifetime to fix. It's that once you establish a relationship with a therapist, you might as well keep it going, even if they aren't weekly, or bi weekly appointments. But that you have this like touchstone to make sure, hey, if something does start to slowly spiral downward, that you already have that in place, because I know for us, if unless it's like an absolute emergency, which we will figure out ways to get people in on an emergency basis. But if it's just like, hey, I need an appointment, it may not be for a month and a half that you get in. So having something already on the calendar to me just makes sense. 

Erin

Yeah, well, it's the maintenance idea. It's kind of like, you haven't been to the dentist in 15 years, you go, you get your X rays. And all of a sudden you find out oh, man, I got six cavities, I need a root canal, you know, like this tooth is chipped. So like that first couple months. It's like intensive, you're going in there, you're getting drilled, you know you're doing the work. And then after that all of those things are resolved and fixed. But you're going back for your cleanings so they can make sure your fillings haven't fallen out. It's that whole maintenance program. So you can keep up that healthy mouth. 

Cinnamon

Absolutely. Who doesn't need a healthy mouth, 

Erin

And a healthy brain 

Cinnamon

And healthy brain. And I've seen it work, right? Where people have successfully completed a treatment plan that they had built with their therapist, bear with me. And then for you know, however many visits things are fine. And then they come back in just one day. And it's like, what's going on? And they're like, I'm having a hard time. I'm like, I'm perfect. You're in the right place. We're having a lot of time here. And how do we, you know, make those adjustments, have those conversations to get one back on track. So it doesn't get to the point where you have six cavities again, mm, six therapeutic 

Erin

Believe it or not listeners, we have people that were kicking and screaming coming in here. And now they can't imagine not coming. Yeah, it's like we can't break up. We're not breaking up. 

Cinnamon

Breaking up, it's hard to do. Well, and I think we also have a lot of spouses that are like, you don't get to not go like that is, you know, the relationship has improved their ability to communicate has improved their relationship with kids and other family members have improved. And so spouses are very encouraging. Like whatever you're doing, please keep doing it. Because it's making our family better. 

Erin

It's not a punishment. 

Cinnamon

No, I think it's a privilege to come hang out with us. Yes, I mean, we are the bee's knees.

Erin 29:33

So I hear

Cinnamon 29:35

That’s the rumor out there (laughter.) My sticker that says save the bees and their knees.

Erin 29:42

Well, this lady across from me loves to talk about childhood trauma, like to talk about things that we bring from childhood and we'll get into that down the road. But that's something that often we hear too. Another myth with therapy is that all they're going to do is making me talk about my past relationships with my parents and how crappy or whatever my upbringing was or what was lacking from my childhood. So basically that all of my problems are about my childhood. And let's, let's talk about,

Cinnamon 30:18

Let's talk about what it was like. Okay, so I am a little guilty of this. However, I don't think that, you know, if you're coming in for…GD Ben…if you're coming in for, like a specific issue, let's say there was a critical incident, or you had a particular event, or you're experiencing particular symptoms, that is not necessarily where we're going to go down the rabbit hole of your childhood. What we are finding, though, is there's a direct correlation. And it's not about your parents being shitty parents. It's, it's about we acknowledge parents, whether it was last generation, our generation and the generations to come, everybody is just doing the best they can. Yep. And when people say to me, I just worry, I'm going to like, screw my kids up, and they're going to be in therapy. I'm like, stop worrying. You are, and they will. 

Erin

Well, and we joke like that. But the truth is, we're doing the best that we can. Yeah. And there is no handbook, to parenting, to raising a family to marriage, even to any of it. We just one day we turn 18. And somebody says, Hey, you're 18, you're an adult? Yeah, even though you don't have a fully functioning brain until you're 25. We're gonna send you out seven years early, with an incompletely developed or built brain. Yeah. So the point is that everybody is doing the best they can. And sometimes it's not that fantastic. 

Cinnamon

And it does leave a lasting impression that makes a difference that trickles into your adulthood. So just even a lay example would be let's say, my, my mom is afraid of water. And her fear, translated into my own fear. So if I'm, you know, doing a river rescue, and I panic, and I need to resolve it, well, yeah, like, it might come up. Where did this? Where did this panic come from? Where did this anxiety and worry come from? Well, I've always been worried about water. Okay, well, what what was happening, that led you to always be worrying about water? Well, my mom didn't like the water. And maybe that could have come from her parents. Like it's just really figuring out what the source is. It's not necessarily to blame your mom for being afraid of water. It's for backtracking. And we know that we get taught both their beliefs as well as their fears, right. So we know we're trying to instill values in our kids. And we also know that because they're watching us, we inadvertently instill fears in them, too.

Cinnamon 33:11

So I say all of that to say, we're not blaming your problem on your parents. But we are finding that when we have experienced certain things. Now remember, as children, if we're thinking about trauma, it's an overwhelm of the brain, the body and our coping skills. And I know for one, I had crappy coping skills as a kid, because I'm a kid, you know, like, I have 10 years of lived experience at the age of 10. I don't know how to deal with everything. So there's so much more, that's going to be traumatic. Yeah. And that's going to even if it's not traumatic, in the sense that I'm going to end up with PTSD. It can be a left an impression on me. And so we do look back and say, Okay, where did this pattern start? Where's the first time and a lot of times, the interventions that we use for trauma is going back to what we call the triad of worst, first and most recent, and when you're looking at what happened first, it may be okay, well, I responded this way in a river rescue because I also responded this way at swim camp. And that is maybe a piss poor example. But it's the one that I just pulled out. 

Erin 34:34

No, that that makes sense. And if I don't stop her now, we will talk about this until the sunsets. 

Cinnamon

All right, give me another one. 

Erin

Oh, okay. You can't help Oh, no, yeah, this one. I love this one. Actually. It's a counselor doesn't know me and he or she can't help me. Well, thank God. We don't know you. You have someone without a dog in the fight. That is what Cinnamon always says. Yeah. Hmm. You have a dog in the fight. So

Cinnamon 35:00

So it makes that we when we talk about like, Oh, I'm really good at giving advice, but I'm terrible at taking it. It is because when it is our personal subjective experience, the factors, the costs are so personal to us that we don't have that same clarity. Whereas we can give advice to friends all day. And we can see so clearly what the answer is. And so to be able to talk to somebody that isn't your spouse isn't your parent isn't a coworker isn't your boss is that your kids isn't your buddy who has a spouse who's buddies with your spouse, right? Like, we literally don't have any of those connections. And we're just looking at a more objective like we are still human. So we are not completely objective. But it gives us more options, to look at things and be neutral

Erin 35:53

Half the time when it's somebody that knows that does know us, in fact, they're bringing years of baggage into the particular situation as well. I don't mean that in a bad way. But it's hard to be subjective in those moments, because they've seen it before, or here we go again, or whatnot.

Cinnamon 36:16

What I also think that when we're discussing this with, like discussing problems with friends, and Aaron, and I do this, when we take our business partner hat off and put back on our best friend hat, it's, we might tell the other one, but we've been telling each other things for 12 years. So I've got this whole history downloaded. And she can say something to me. I'm like, Oh, I know. Right? Like, I get why I get where you're coming from, as a therapist. If Aaron is my client, and I'm out, and she tells me that I'm going to not make that assumption and not make that connection. And I'm going to make her articulate why that thing is so negative, right? So instead of saying, Oh, I get it, oh, or I hear in your tone that this is a negative thing. And I pick up on that. And I'm like, Yeah, and we just let it go. I'm like, No, explain this to me. Explain your thought process of why this is a negative thing. And then that person has to articulate? And sometimes that's where you find the answers. Yes, it's what I call looking at the monster under the bed. Right? They're like, Oh, it'll be bad. I'm like, Okay, well, let's play that out. What if it does happen? Yeah, when they keep talking, then the light bulb goes off often, too. You can keep them talking, then there's a good chance they're gonna get to the meat and potatoes, if you will. And that's why I like the phrase I asked people, does this resonate with you or not? Is this the right answer? Is this the wrong answer? Is this exactly how you feel? But is anything of what I said? Does any of it resonate with you? And then okay, which parts, if any, and then we kind of, you know, go with that. But I do think that, as great as friends and peers are, and we definitely want to have healthy communication and couples, I don't want to take away from the benefit of having that objective third party that doesn't have a dog in the fight.

Erin 38:20

And what they can add to that, right. So ask your friends, ask your neighbors, ask your spouse, and also talk to a therapist. Yes. And speaking of talking to a therapist, the myth of, but people will know I'm seeing a counselor or I don't want people to know I'm seeing counselor, that whole idea. 

Cinnamon 38:41

To me, this is a first off, the only way people will know that you're seeing a counselor is if you tell them, right, because why? Because of confidentiality. Exactly. And this is so important. And I feel very strongly about this one. If my outlook is Oh, my gosh, somebody's going to find out that I'm in therapy, right there. That is shame. That is somebody's going to think negatively of me. I love those folks who are like, Well, yeah, I'm in therapy. Do you know what I do? Of course, I'm in therapy. And so this isn't really about anybody else. This is about your personal choice about disclosure. And then it is also the attitude that you take about it. Because

39:26

I feel like you have way more of an opportunity to be a role model. If you are able to say, yep, if you tell people people will know you're, you're seeing a counselor. And

39:40

like why is that innately a negative? People will know. And again, your personal choice, but I would like to add that spin. Pay if I'm going to go to therapy, and I'm a leader in my department, that I'm a game changer in my department, thencOh yeah, I'm gonna be like, I'm going to therapy, like, I'm going to participate in normalizing that, rather than, you know, creeping around and being, you know, scared, somebody's going to find out. And I always say, Man, if I could have like a team roster, and people could see who I was with me, who's all with me, there would be no more stigma. And I would assume that every clinician that does this kind of work, where, you know, I've had people walk in my office as somebody was walking out in there, like, oh, my god, that was my mentor. I had no idea they were coming. You know, and, and maybe I would have been here sooner if I had. Yeah, like if it if it whether or not you know it, there are people that you respect, that have already sought out help.

Erin 40:47

And that might be part of the reason why you respect them, and you don't even know it. 

Cinnamon 41:00

Oh, yeah. I don't know if that's an appropriate sound. How, like, I like cartoon how

I visualized it. You did you saw like, the pointy talk bubble around it. That was like, with the super heroes. Okay. Yes. Anyhoo people might know, and I hope they know, but it won't be from us. Yeah. So we'll put it that way. 

Erin

And people will try to talk about other people. Oh, yeah, that's fun. And, you know, the reality is, they're still not getting anything. Because we would never admit that we know what you're talking about. Yeah, that person.

Cinnamon 41:35

People talk amongst themselves. And so they know. And it's one of those things where you get to have confidentiality, and you get to break your own confidentiality, whenever and how you choose. That does not give us permission. So we just can't really do that. So the long and the short of it is it's your choice. If people know that you're seeing a counselor. That's it. And instead of making that a bad thing, we can turn it into a good thing. Hell yeah. People know, I'm seeing a counselor. Yeah. I'm changing the culture in my department by sharing that information. Because I don't want another one of my brothers or sisters to die. Yep. I mean, that was what it comes down to, is what it comes down to.

Cinnamon 42:27

Alright, so therapy doesn't work. That is no. Okay. Let me rephrase. That is not a statement that is actually a myth that I probably should have started the sentence different. 

Erin 42:40

So the myth is the myth is the therapy people say and think that therapy doesn't work. And you're right, you can't just go get done therapy. Like, you can't just like Botox, like, osmosis.I sit in the therapy chair, and I get well, right.

Cinnamon

You know, we give out homework, we give ideas of observation, like, let's pay attention to this this week. You know, sometimes it's hard work outside of therapy, sometimes it's not so hard work. But the reality is, is coming and seeing us isn't necessarily going to solve all your problems. And I back into it. I know, 

Erin

It's like, you can go sit in a church, but that doesn't mean you're gonna find religion. Or you can go in a gym and sit there and watch everybody pump iron. And that doesn't mean you're gonna get muscles. It's the same idea. 

Cinnamon 43:51

And let's be honest, I think we all would like that. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I laid my head down in algebra all the time on my algebra book. I still don't know what y is. Right? Like, it's just not how it works. So yes.

therapy works if you work it. That's right. Yeah. Gotta have skin in the game for it to work. Absolutely. But it will work. But it will work. Which goes to let's kind of like wrap up with our last one. And I hear this pretty frequently. And it's usually set in a joking manner. I used to hear this more years ago before we kind of like started talking more about mental health in everyday conversations rather than just in those exclusive moments. And that is, I am beyond help. And what I have found is no, you're not, you're not, you're just not like no matter how bad it is, no matter how cemented you are into your practices and behaviors. There is always something that you can learn about yourself, about how to handle situations, how to communicate, how to ask for your needs to be met, how to meet other people's needs, how to be a member of society. 

Erin 45:00

The belief that one is beyond help is a fear driven belief. It is a statement that and this could be very opinionated. And I'm willing to take that on. But it's a statement that oh man facing this stuff feels hard or scary, or I am so messed up, there's no possible way or I've lived like this for so damn long, there's no possible way anything could feel different than the way it's felt for all these years. And to me, that feels like a fearful thing, I or they don't want to get their hopes up, I was just gonna say this feels like that I'd rather live in disappointment, than be disappointed. So if I come in low and say, I am beyond help, then I will not be disappointed or crushed when I actually try therapy, and it doesn't work. So if I am afraid that whatever is going on with me cannot be resolved, it is a very safe thing to say that it won't work. Because then I can't be disappointed. I'm just living in that bottom margin of disappointment. I'm beyond help. Nothing's going to work. I might as well just stay like this. And not even give it a try. Rather than Well, I watch other people go to therapy, and I see other people in for improved. So I'm gonna go and then we have that fear that it's not going to get better. And so we just give up before we ever get started to avoid disappointment. Yeah.

46:30

And we do that in a lot of ways in life.

46:32

Tons outside of just therapy. Well, I call it the this old dress mentality. Like, if I come down the stairs, and I say to my husband, look at Don't I look so pretty. And he just kind of like gives me a side eye. It's gonna feel shitty. But if I come downstairs, and the first thing I say is, oh my God, I feel so fair and ugly. In this outfit. What is he going to do? No, babe, you look great. And I'm like, no, stop. I just I just this whole thing I just pulled out of the closet. And so what I'm doing is I'm coming in low and putting the emotional labor on him. Because I am afraid that if I come in high, I'm gonna get knocked down. So is that toxic Midwestern humility? That could be a whole episode of toxic Midwestern humility? Yes. Is it just Midwestern, I don't know. But I feel like we're so supposedly nice. That that's just something that we do. Yeah, along with like a Midwestern goodbye, where we walk people to the foyer. And then we walk out on the porch, and then they walk to their car. But then we like walk to their car, like we don't know how to say, or when to say goodbye.

Cinnamon 47:49

God bless the Midwest, the middle west. So of all of these, like maybe the list we covered today isn't something that you had. If you have another belief about therapy that you want us to bust, please feel free to call the hotline. And we can either use your hotline call, or we can just take the question and have it as part of one of our discussions. Also, you can always hop on Instagram or Facebook and follow us and ask a question there. There are ways and we do monitor messages and things like that. So yeah, I mean, I think that don't knock it until you try it. And if you try it, and it and it doesn't feel like a good fit, go find someone else. And feel free to interview people, like go to multiple therapists to find something that fits you. And also like, interview your therapists, most therapists will have like a free consultation, or at least they'll have some conversation with you before your session. And that's where do your research well, what interventions do you use? Have you been trained in cultural competency for first responders? Do you specialize in you know, drugs, alcohol trauma, like how many first responders do you see, you can ask those questions to get a better idea. And also, word of mouth. We don't advertise like our private practice doesn't advertise anymore. We used to, but it was ineffective. And what I found was I was declining more clients because they weren't in my specialty Nash, where the word of mouth is, hey, I know a therapist, you should go talk to this person. And that is what we see most effective because you can Google it. You can read on Psychology Today, you can do whatever. But at the end of the day, you're going to trust your brothers and sisters to give you the name of somebody who will do right by you. 

50:00

Right. And also, you're gonna do it and we definitely encourage you to try it out. Be open minded. Do not set yourself up to lose by going in there with the intent to bust it. Like I met my therapist, and Nope. Yeah, I found out that they really only take crazy people. Yeah, all the myths were true.

Cinnamon 50:13

Alright, then we'll just go find more myths.

Cinnamon 50:18

All right, well, I feel good about promoting a healthy perspective on therapy. And maybe we can talk about barriers, another episode and how to solve those. So like maybe after we bust through the mess, now we've got to deal with the barriers like insurance or financing. And we're going to have a separate conversation about that. But I think it's just important as an key to first responder mental health and wellness is that we address as soon as possible in this podcast, the things that we have heard repeatedly about why people aren't going and give solid examples of how that's not true in every case, and what the advantages are, or even how to spin that myth into, yeah, people will find out that I'm going to therapy and I am cool with that. And I'm cool with that. And, you know, I'm contributing to the greater good of my department in my community. So I feel like we hit this one on the head. Yeah. With my bass, bass, bass bat, bass bat. Yes, I will.

Cinnamon 51:34

I'm gonna sketch a drawing of what a bass bat would look like. And listen to, you can always check our show notes. We always have information, resources, supportive stuff, with everything that we do, so we'll see y'all soon. Take care.

Erin 51:55

Thank you for joining us for today's episode of After the Tones drop. Today's show has been brought to you by whole house counseling. As a note, after the tones drop is for informational purposes only, and does not constitute for medical or psychological advice. It is not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis or treatment. Please contact a local mental health professional in your area if you're in need of any assistance. You can also visit after the tone strop.com and click on our resources tab for an abundance of helpful information. And we would like to give a very special thank you and shout out to Venz Adams, Yeti and Sonda for our shows music