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In our latest episode of Erin and Cinnamon kick things off with a real-life snippet of gallows humor so perfectly timed, it could only come from a place of deep understanding and shared experience. But don't worry, the details are our little secret. As we unpack the topic, it's clear that gallows humor sits in a unique spot—it's like walking a tightrope between what helps us cope and what might just be a band-aid on a bullet wound.
They delve into the heart of why this kind of humor isn't just about cracking jokes; it's a lifeline for many first responders, a way to belong, and sometimes, a shield against the things that haunt them. Yet, there's that edge—where the laughter can start to build walls, keeping us from truly connecting with those who don't "speak our language" of dark wit.
Our hosts don't shy away from the gritty details, sharing stories from the frontline and home, where the echoes of the job can sometimes ripple out in unexpected ways. It's about more than just knowing your audience; it's recognizing when our go-to coping mechanism starts to color our world a little too dark.
Erin and Cinnamon wrap things up with some real talk on keeping it in check. They suggest a simple yet brilliant strategy—having a "code word" with loved ones, a gentle nudge to remind us when it's time to switch gears. It's about creating a space where we can be mindful of our humor's impact, not just on ourselves, but on those around us.
So, tune in to this heart-to-heart as we navigate the tricky waters of gallows humor. It's a journey through the laughter and the tears, and a reminder that sometimes, the most powerful thing we can do is talk about it—straight up, no chaser.
DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop has been presented and sponsored by Whole House Counseling. After the Tones Drop is for informational purposes only and does not constitute for medical or psychological advice. It is not a substitute for professional health care advice diagnosis or treatment. Please contact a local mental health professional in your area if you are in need of assistance. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information.
ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat):
EP49: Punchlines in Dark Times
Erin: We were having a little dialogue before we even got started recording today because we want to discuss Gallo's humor, the good, the bad, the ugly, dun dun. But we were kind of chuckling at a painful situation that has occurred in our lives and Cinnamon went on to make a joke which was the beautiful, most perfect example of Gallo's humor at its finest.
Cinnamon: But we cannot repeat it.
Erin: it shan't be repeated, but we thought that this episode was important because this is something that is brushed under the rug and we talk a lot about coping mechanisms and we talk a lot about healthy coping unhealthy coping mechanisms and what that looks like.
And this one can fall in the middle of what a healthy or unhealthy coping mechanism can look like. There are times where It's a nice way to segue into the next thing and be able to adapt to the circumstance and be able to cope [00:01:00] and be in a position to go to the next run. And then there's other times, depending on the significance of the event, that it can almost look like an avoidance tactic.
So there's different ways to look at it. So we definitely wanted to touch on. What that looks like, how it can sometimes be beneficial and how sometimes it can be harmful, and just things to consider because we know Gallo's humor is not going away in the first responder world.
Cinnamon: I would even say that dark humor Was an indicator that like when I could hold my own Hearing it and even being able to dish it out myself That was an indicator to a lot of the first responders i've interacted with is okay, she's cool right or
Erin: gets it.
Cinnamon: She gets it or it has the same reaction if I cuss and somebody's like, oh, okay Okay, we can cuss with her and it's just like you engage in dark [00:02:00] humor part of what we're going to talk about is time and place and I think when it becomes a habit and it just comes out and you're not shifting For the environment you can drop it and then be like, oh shit.
How's this person going to respond? and Being able to roll with it Gets you in the club, but also There's an allowance for saying Okay, you can't talk to me like I'm one of the boys at the station. You're home now and You don't get to talk to me like that, right?
Erin: right?
Cinnamon: So
Erin: Don't get to talk to grandma like that.
Heh.
Yeah. Right.
Cinnamon: Grace
Erin: Yeah, so I don't even think that we need to really define what gallows humor or dark humor is, really. We all know what it is, especially if you're in this world. And it's making what, you know, maybe a normal person would think a joke that Tends to be a little more horrific, or [00:03:00] someone might, distasteful, that is the perfect word
Cinnamon: Mocking something that should never be mocked,
Erin: Right.
Cinnamon: but I think that is one of the golden rules of this Is, you don't say those things in front of people that would be clutching their pearls, right? Like, you don't crack those jokes in front of a victim's family,
Erin: Right.
Cinnamon: and that is a general rule.
And I know that our folks can refrain from that, so that becomes my argument of why we get to be responsible for refraining from it in our homes when it's not appropriate, and we're having difficulty making that transition. From work environment to home environment.
Erin: Yeah, and also having the wherewithal and and the mindfulness about who is in your surroundings. Like, you might be on scene thinking it's just you and your buddy, and then there's somebody behind you, and it goes from, oh, here's this cop or [00:04:00] firefighter here to help out, to what an asshole. I can't believe he would say something like that, like it's so effed up, even though we all know that's a way to get through the tough situation.
So just being mindful of, again, place and time. So can look at, okay, the positive sides and the good of humor, of dark humor. And one is what Cinnamon just touched on that, that belonging, that camaraderie, like, Oh, she's one of the boys. Like she can get it. She can hang with us. We can say these things and she's not going to like keel over
because she's so
Cinnamon: Clutch her
pearls.
Erin: pearls. Right. so that is a big aspect of it and how it can be a good thing. And This also creates that opportunity for in this kind of twisted way for first responders to be able to share those horrific stories that have happened with one another because someone make some kind of like ill response or some dark humor response and another first responder might say, Oh yeah, [00:05:00] well, And seeing as how you said that, I had this one time.
So it does open up that opportunity for conversation and talking to one another about particular situations. And with that, it also is a good segue to slightly talk about a situation or a hard circumstance or hard run with your brothers, with your partner. In a way that makes it feel like less opportunity to be judged, doesn't make you completely vulnerable, but you're still talking about it because you put this lightness to it or darkness, depending on how you look at it.
So those are some of the positive things that come out of it,
Cinnamon: and, to add to what you're saying, talking about if you have somebody behind you, right? And, one story I can think of is You know, if you're a brand spanking new firefighter, this is your first fire, and you come out acting like you're a football team that just scored a touchdown and, banging on each other's [00:06:00] helmets and, being super excited, because it was exciting for you, but like 10 feet from you is standing the family that just lost every single thing they've ever owned or cared about or, identified as important or sentimental.
So again, it can be that time of place. But. With that being said, if our first responders held the same gravity that the family that just lost everything they own for every single one of those runs, right? It's a tragedy for the family, but for the first responder, it's a work day. and I think one of the things that we frequently say is this is how you can go on the next run.
Because if you had the weight as if that was your house every time you put out a fire, or if that was your child, or, a family member that got arrested, or, God forbid, killed every time, you'd have a very, very, very, very, very short career. So you have to lift some of that [00:07:00] weight off of it. and that's why it's fine to do, it's appropriate to do, it's necessary to do, but we just have to remember not everybody is gonna feel that way.
And I even say that to the civilians, that are listening, don't be the ones clutching your pearls, because I cannot believe they said that about this. No, like, cuz you have to give them space, otherwise when your house catches on fire, nobody can come.
Erin: Have you had that conversation with a civilian where they say, I can't believe this? I mean, I've seen stupid shit on social media, but I've never. Had that conversation in real life.
Cinnamon: I mean, I think I've, I've talked about my work and no one has ever said anything directly to a first responder where I've had to, be like, Hey, cut him some slack. But I've definitely had conversations that I've shared information that included some of the dark humor and they're like, Oh my God, that's so dark.
And I'm like, [00:08:00] be grateful that it exists. Otherwise we would have no public servants.
Erin: right? obviously we don't wanna get into this and shun anybody or prohibit or say, please don't do this because there are valuable, points to being able to have this as a tool in your tool belt. And we wouldn't be. mental health clinicians without kind of highlighting just some things to be aware of.
And so where it goes from the good to like a eee, like more bad side, is when we start considering how using this dark humor can desensitize you. from reality from other people, which, as we've talked about on other episodes, like you can't just turn it off and then turn it on whenever you feel like it, once you start to desensitize in these certain environments, it wouldn't be unreasonable to bring you hear this numb behavior back into your family and back into your loved ones lives.
Because you can't figure out, oh, I'm at work, I'm not at work.
Cinnamon: One [00:09:00] thing that I've noticed about it is, and one of our guests William Young. talks about it in his book, the idea is when you have exposure to this level of tragedy on a consistent basis, when you go home and your spouse or your children are struggling with something, it's a real easy place to go to of, oh, you think that's a big deal?
Oh, I'm sorry that you're running late for school pickup. I'm sorry that you can't find your pretty pony and you're going to have to leave the house without it. Right? Like not only does it desensitize us to the work and we almost built a tolerance to it. but it also desensitizes us in our day to day lives where we lose any.
compassion or empathy for what people feel like are their struggles or their frustrations because yeah, you're right, nothing is going to compete with the shit that you all see. So running late for school [00:10:00] pickup or having to clean up puke. throughout the night while you're on duty probably doesn't sound like a big deal if you're scraping up brains but either way like that still means that somebody didn't get to sleep that night and it's probably tired and maybe a little cranky and we get to respect other people's experiences.
Erin: Definitely. yeah, it really highlights that using it as a tool to avoid, which then can into other problems. Mental health issues, so even though we might be using this dark humor to kind of avoid replaying that hard thing, that tragic run through our mind, it's still in there because it's not being dealt with.
And so it will sit there and fester and fester. And Cinnamon has touched on this before. It's like the worse the event, the more outlandish and horrific and darker the humor gets. And that is where it's like, [00:11:00] okay, clearly this is something that we can't continue to joke about because if it's getting this dark, then it's affecting us, whether we want to admit it or not.
Cinnamon: I think of it in terms of like when a business is in the black or in the red or in the green the more horrific a situation is, the further you're going to go into the red. And to get back to the black, it requires darker humor to bounce back up into that range. And it's also like alcohol tolerance.
We don't notice how quickly We can get darker and darker now if it's every day You don't usually pick up on those things But the same way if you haven't seen somebody in a year and you're like, oh my god your hair got so long Oh my gosh, you lost or gained weight or whatever. That is, we don't have that insight Because we're seeing the day to day growth or decline and so [00:12:00] sometimes There are going to be people who point it out and they don't understand the context and what you are doing is perfectly fine for what you're doing And then there's other times when people might interject and it's an opportunity to take a look at it Like has this gotten so dark that I probably need to do a self check on my other Areas of mental health.
Erin: Yeah. often we see folks suffering from depression, anxiety, sleep issues, all of those things. They're not looking at it. Because we're using tools like this to cope, avoid, or just get through the day or get through the shift, those things begin to fester and brew, and the symptoms, then translate as depression, anxiety, sleep issues, substance misuse, infidelity, all the things that, that happen.
And some of those are mental health issues, and some of those are coping mechanisms. But either way, there is a result to [00:13:00] the Usage of coping mechanisms.
Cinnamon: and as you were talking What came to my mind was the idea of
when we use these stories and we use this humor as a way to avoid the discomfort of the work, we start to create the habit of when we are experiencing discomfort, we whip that out like a sword. And it becomes very reactive and that's when we can recognize it as that avoidance tactic because you're cracking jokes all the time and when somebody is trying to have a serious conversation with you and you begin to feel uncomfortable and you got jokes, right, we know that, oh, okay, I see you got jokes, then it is no longer effective in an actuality rather than creating that camaraderie that we are talking about It becomes very alienating for other [00:14:00] people in your life.
I mean, I can get down with a good joke and I absolutely use humor as a coping skill. But there's also knowing that there's a time and a place for it.
Erin: And that is a great way to lead us into more of like the ugly side of this. And we've already touched on some of these things. one, are we being controversial, is there something that you might think is super funny, but the guy next to you does not. And Then there's that whole side of like the difference between humor and professionalism, and I get it this profession might be a little bit unique to that but still we all have differences of opinions of things outside of work.
So it's just being mindful of that.
Cinnamon: Two things that come to mind, one, is even amongst the first responders, there are going to be things that the dark humor does not go over with, So you may not be familiar with my personal life, or maybe, things that have happened in my life, but that's not what you're [00:15:00] thinking of when stuff comes out of your mouth and you make some joke about an overdose.
And you may not know that I've lost my sister from an overdose, or, my best friend's mom died of an overdose, or my daughter, whatever that is, you have to be not only conscientious of the public that is around, but also take note of who you're working with, and, because you, Will hurt your co worker and then they get a bad taste in their mouth and they may not even tell you, right?
and I think this is gonna resonate with everybody. There are cell phones Everywhere and the last thing any and we know that it happens But when somebody gets it on camera and then post it on the internet, then now we're looking at job security because We've seen how things can go crazy with that, and it does make a [00:16:00] difference whether you're saying it under your breath or when you're, back out of the community, or if you're saying that and it's not so quiet and somebody picks it up on their camera, and then next thing you know, you've got a 20, 000 signature petition to get you fired, and you didn't do a damn thing different than any other first responder out there.
Erin: Any other day.
Cinnamon: Any other day.
Erin: Yeah. Those are great examples and I do think that the important one is that no matter how well we think we know the people that we work with, we don't know what their experiences have been that touch really close to home. And so it's being mindful of that. When we make these jokes and that's tricky.
It's like you're kind of just in the moment and you're saying stuff But if we're gonna look at why there can be good in it We've got to look at why there can be bad in it and the risks
Cinnamon: and I don't want everybody to become like hyper vigilant and super worried about offending somebody else. But I also want to find moderation [00:17:00] so we're not on the other side where we're like, screw that guy. If he can't take a joke, he can't take a joke. Like I'm not going to make an adaptation because he gets butt hurt.
to me that is like not taking responsibility for your contribution to a situation.
Erin: Yeah
Cinnamon: I would offer up the challenge for our first responders to ask somebody in your personal life that is not related to the public service sector and ask them if they've ever heard you say something that was off putting or got an eyebrow raise like, Whoa, I cannot believe they said that.
because I think that some people may just assume it's. The person's personality or it may be a reason to maybe keep somebody an arm's length away When in actuality it is not necessarily somebody's personality It is just a commonly used coping skill when we are uncomfortable.
Erin: Absolutely, and [00:18:00] you and I even touched on this before we started recording this episode. Because we are in the First Responder world day in and day out, constantly, we will make jokes even. And we get these side eyes like Are you kidding? And there's been times, and my husband made it very clear that he does not want me to do this anymore, where I will be talking about something that I read or something that I heard about and it's terrible.
It's awful. And it'll wreck his whole entire night because it's such an awful thing. And to me, I'm just like, Oh, it's another day at the office,
Cinnamon: Absolutely
Erin: just like for you guys. Because I know that often you're. Very cautious of what you bring home and actually say verbally to your family. Nonetheless, there are things, and Gallo's humor and dark humor are, an example of where we could just be going through the motions of life, doing what we do. We are around the folks we work with half the time, more than our families.
And we just kind of get into [00:19:00] autopilot.
And so, it's like, read the room. We get to be mindful of what we're saying and who we're saying it to. And I love Cinnamon that you said, be curious about it. Let's be conscious. Have we maybe said something that would otherwise perceived as inappropriate and just be conscious of that?
Cinnamon: One of the things that I often tell our clients is, in those situations that we can predict will come up again, have a code word. And for whatever reason, my code word the example I use is cupcake. But in my own life, I know when my husband says, okay bro, then I'm talking to him like I'm talking to one of the guys, which is not the way.
That I get to talk to my husband and Whenever he says, okay, bro where he is acknowledging you're treating me like one of your [00:20:00] dudes Stop it. That is our code word for cinnamon, you need to pull back and check yourself and shift out of that work fraternity house mode and back into Residential mode.
Erin: Yeah.
Cinnamon: Okay, bro
Erin: I've watched you two navigate conversations like that and you are very self aware when he says stuff like that and you're like, oh, okay, I know what that means. And to me, I would find that very passive aggressive. but that's my own shit, right? Like, that's my own stuff,
Cinnamon: We've
worked very hard on communication.
Erin: I know I've watched you.
I'm often very like, wow, mature. You navigated that beautifully.
Cinnamon: We look like grownups.
Erin: but you do look at grownups, but hear me out. Okay. The opposite side of dark humor is to actually talk about. What happened. How you feel about it to each other. I know, [00:21:00] that's more curl clutching than gallows humor. But the truth of the matter is part of the reason that we use this is because we don't want to take a look at the horrific shit.
And if we can get ourselves to a place to be vulnerable and be like, That really sucked! And just be honest, because when you're using dark humor, We know that it sucked. It's like the same thing without saying it sucked and that was hard and I'm going to probably have nightmares. but yeah, so the opposite opportunity is to, sit at the kitchen table and talk about Here's what came up for me.
Here's what it signified in my life. Here's what it reminded me of that may cause me to not be able to sleep tonight. Any of those things, but at least you're conversing about the reality of it so that you can begin to process through and work through it without just slathering some jelly on top and then scooting on.
Cinnamon: Yeah. I'm over here thinking about scenarios in which the dark humor has been used. [00:22:00] And then when it personally happens to an agency and those jokes don't come out.we have so much suicide in our communities and. There's, unfortunately, so much suicide outside of our communities that our folks have to respond to and, when you have to cut a teenage girl down from her bedroom closet, you're going to have to come up with something that will shield you from the gravity of that.
But I want to give credit where credit's due, and those are not the things that we hear after it affects us. an agency. No one is using those jokes. So we know that our people are quite capable of recognizing the difference of it when it hits home versus when it's another day at the office and they have to figure out a way to [00:23:00] not see it every night when they close their eyes to go to bed.
So I don't want to be the Debbie Downer as we wrap this up. And all of a sudden like the slow jam music started playing in the back. Did you hear that?
Erin: But
not like, bam, chicka bam, wow, slow
Cinnamon: Right. Like it went from woo, you know, party in the USA to, you know, something more like Tracy Chapman, in the fast car. but yeah, so as we wrap this up, I definitely want to say that I am confident.
That our people understand time and place, we also get to acknowledge that there is a little bit of a knee jerk habit of when we start to feel uncomfortable that, that can just automatically come out. because we know you're capable, it is just taking that extra step. To be mindful that you're not bringing it home and for the spouses that Are listening because we have our spouses and they're awesome.
Maybe it can be something for you to [00:24:00] do of Establishing that code word of if your spouse comes home and has maybe taken it a step too far You can throw out a cupcake make them
aware that
Erin: an okay bro
Cinnamon: Or an okay bro to give them The awareness that they need to pull back a little bit and hit the reset button that it may be going a little too far So we all can take responsibility in increasing our effective communication
Erin: Does that feel good?
Cinnamon: That feels good
Erin: Yeah, I don't think there's anything else to add. Plus, now Rob is taking a shower. Trumpet has stopped. Shower is going.
Cinnamon: Okay, bro
