Rise Beyond Rank: With Vin Scotto

EP102: Rise Beyond Rank

00:00:00 Erin: You're listening to After the Tones Drop, the mental health podcast for first responders.

00:00:07 Cinnamon: We're your hosts. I'm Cinnamon, a first responder trauma therapist.

00:00:11 Erin: And I'm Erin, a first responder integration coach. 

00:00:14 Cinnamon: Our show brings you stories from real first responders, the tools they've learned, and the lives they now get to live.

00:00:29 Erin: Hey, hey, welcome back to After the Tones Drop. Today we're sitting down with someone who truly understands the weight of the badge, Vincent Scotto. He spent 20 years navigating one of the toughest law enforcement landscapes in the country as an NYPD officer. But his story doesn't stop there.

00:00:47 Erin: After retiring, Vincent took on just about every challenge you could think of. Coaching baseball, running a tax business, working as a PI, trading equities, and advising on finances. But through it all, he faced the same struggle so many first responders do, the transition from the structured world of law enforcement to the unpredictable reality of civilian life.

00:01:13 Cinnamon: Vincent's journey of self-discovery led him to a deeper understanding of the emotional toll first responders carry and the societal contradictions that make it even harder. One minute you're a hero and next minute you're a villain. Instead of chasing a quick fix, Vincent learned how to lean into the discomfort, found tools for resilience, and now dedicates himself to helping others in the law enforcement community find their own paths.

00:01:39 Cinnamon: We're honored to have been here today to share his experiences, insights, and no-nonsense approach to healing and growth. Let's get into it.

00:01:48 Erin: There he is.

00:01:49 Vincent: How are you?

00:01:50 Erin: Good. How are you?

00:01:52 Cinnamon: Good, good. Hold on. Should I put on my glasses too?

00:01:56 Erin: Only if you want to look smart like us.

00:01:58 Vincent: They're not real glasses. They're like those blue blockers. 

00:02:03 Erin: Wait, not blue blockers like the 1980s blue blockers that all of our dads wore.

00:02:08 Vincent: Blu-ray. Sorry, blu-ray. 

00:02:11 Cinnamon: So you can use them with your computer screen. Is that what you're saying?

00:02:15 Vincent: Yes.

00:02:16 Erin: Got it.

00:02:17 Cinnamon: We just don't want people to think you're uncool before we even get started by saying you're wearing blue blockers. That's all.

00:02:22 Vincent: Yeah, it's okay. I know I'm cool.

00:02:25 Cinnamon: Erin and I wear the glasses because we have to get a little assistance looking intellectual and older and wiser because we have no gray yet.

00:02:35 Vincent: Got it. You'll get there. I wanted to share something with you guys before I forget it. It might come up in our conversation. I'm here in Florida still and I got invited to St. Augustine Amphitheater, which is about 45 minutes north of me. They call them smokers traditionally. I don't know if you ever heard that term. So it was the fire department versus the police department in sanctioned boxing matches, amateur matches, women and men. It was awesome.

00:03:06 Vincent: Now I fought in one of these when I was with the police department, New York city in 2007. So I know how this works, but this is only the second time that I've been to one as a guest, but you guys would have enjoyed it. A lot of pomp and circumstance, big crowd. Just a lot of energy. It was a lot of fun. And the girls were fierce. 

00:03:28 Erin: That's awesome.

00:03:29 Vincent: Yeah.

00:03:30 Cinnamon: I love that. Like we're not taking no crap from anybody.

00:03:32 Vincent: No, no, they were fierce.

00:03:33 Cinnamon: We got this. 

00:03:34 Erin: How awesome.

00:03:35 Vincent: Yeah. And I know you guys do a lot with fire services. So, you know, it's the little gentle rivalry with police and fire. So it added that extra layer of rivalry and intensity.

00:03:45 Cinnamon: Yeah. Up here we have like hockey games and we have softball games. There is a lot of intra-I guess, are intermural sports between fire and police. And it is. It's that good natured ball busting of the hose draggers versus the badge gorillas.

00:04:08 Vincent: My dad was on the job in the seventies, right? And he retired like in 1982. And my cousin, his first cousin, who's actually my second cousin, was New York City Fire Department. He actually got out as a battalion chief right before 9-11. I share that because there was a little gentle rivalry with the two of them. Very light because they're very kind of chill guys. But my dad always used to call the fire department Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves. I don't know if you've ever heard that expression.

00:04:41 Cinnamon: Oh, yeah.

00:04:42 Vincent: You know what it means, right?

00:04:43 Cinnamon: I have a record of the children's book in my study.

00:04:46 Vincent: No, but you know the reference, right? As it pertains to the fire department.

00:04:49 Cinnamon: Uh huh. Oh no.

00:04:51 Vincent: So in New York City, the fire department were known. They'd go into the supermarket with their bunker gear and they would take anything they could take and leave. And it was accepted. Now, God forbid the NYPD did that. Now it's a problem. So everyone loves the fire department. The police, not so much. Unless you really save your life in that moment, but more times than not, it's fuck the police.

00:05:20 Erin: Yeah.

00:05:21 Vincent: And I feel the same way. I have a problem with us. 

00:05:28 Cinnamon: Wow. Firefighters show up, make my day better. Cops show up, make my day worse.

00:05:33 Vincent: That's part of problem.

00:05:34 Cinnamon: As I just got certified in my most recent adult remedial driving class that I had to take to lower my insurance and get points taken off my license because of cops.

00:05:47 Erin: And a lead foot.

00:05:48 Cinnamon: And a lead foot.

00:05:49 Erin: That's actually not the cops. It's actually you.

00:05:53 Cinnamon: It's a me problem.

00:05:55 Vincent: If I tell you no bullshit, I have a little bit of a lead foot too. And I never ever, ever-my whole time on the job got a ticket. In my first time in my life, guess where I got a speeding ticket.

00:06:11 Cinnamon: In your neighborhood?

00:06:13 Vincent: No. In fucking Ohio.

00:06:16 Erin: By a trooper?

00:06:18 Vincent: Guess what? I'm with my family.

00:06:20 Cinnamon: They're wicked here.

00:06:21 Vincent: I played in a baseball tournament at Progressive Field in Cleveland. I was in a Chevy Tahoe with five kids, young kids, three of my own, two of my partner at the time. She's in the front seat. I'm doing about 95. Now granted, fast. I get pulled over by this old fuck of a trooper.

00:06:44 Erin: Uh huh.

00:06:44 Vincent: I pull over to the side. I lower the windows, shut the radio off, hands on the wheel, the whole thing, seatbelt on. He comes over to me. I said, "I'm sorry for speeding." I said, "Can I go to the center console?" Cause he asked me for my identification. I show him my credentials. He says, "Wait in the car." Now in my mind, I'm saying this motherfucker is going to give me a ticket.

00:07:10 Erin: They don't care.

00:07:11 Vincent: He comes back with the ticket and this is what I say to him. I said, "Can I get out of the car and talk to you?" And he gets nervous. He allows it. We go to the back of the truck. I'm in, I go, "In 20 years of my police career and now subsequently being retired," I forgot how many years it had been. I said- actually, no, I was still on the job. I'm sorry. I wasn't even retired, which makes it worse.

00:07:39 Vincent: I said, "I have never gotten or given a summons to one of my own." I said, "If you're on the road fighting for your life," I said, "I'm the guy who sees it, shows up, gets out of my car and gets in the fight." I said, "I got to be honest with you. I'm disappointed. I'm not angry, but I'm disappointed." He said, "Well, you have a car full of kids." This is what I said to him. I said, "I'm not stupid."

00:08:11 Vincent: I said- because the guy in front of me had local plates and was doing at least 110. I said, "You pulled me over because I have New York plates and you probably think I'm running stuff from state to state, whether it be guns or drugs and that you got a felony car stop. Once you realize that's not the case, you fucking let me go." And he had nothing to say. He actually said, "I'm sorry." I called the barracks and I said, "Listen, I'm not complaining." I said, "But this is what happened."

00:08:41 Vincent: I go, "I'm like beside myself." They said, "Who was it?" I gave him the name. There was a pause. And then I forgot what he said. He said something like, "Without giving this guy up," I said, "You told me everything I need to know." He was that guy. He was that scumbag. We had on the police department, the highway cops that thought they were bigger than the world that hate their own. And that was this guy. And that's sad. Sorry, I'm going to get off my soapbox.

00:09:10 Cinnamon: Well, you know, there are firefighters that will not put their union stickers on their car because they see it as an opportunity to get targeted. So in Ohio, they don't care who you are. They would give tickets to their own mothers or troopers. And that is just a known thing here.

00:09:30 Vincent: Terrible.

00:09:31 Cinnamon: Everybody, even other law enforcement are like, "Oh, yeah. Troopers don't let anyone go."

00:09:36 Erin: Well, and that's why I was like, "Was it a trooper?" And hey, just so you know, we have friends and know and love plenty of Ohio troopers and we'd probably still get a ticket, but it is no joke that that is something that is a known thing in Ohio. So next time do not speed cause they will give you a ticket.

00:09:53 Erin: But I want to rewind because you've touched on several times where you're from. We know that you're NYPD. We know that it's a different beast out there. But let's rewind a little bit and let's go back to just some simple basic questions. What drew you in to becoming a law enforcement officer and what was your experience like serving specifically with NYPD?

00:10:21 Vincent: Sure, sure. My dad was New York City police. My dad came on the job. He graduated officially, I think my sister was just about a year old. So it was 1969 and I was born in August of 69. I mentioned that, I was born the day of the Moon Day Parade. So when the astronauts that landed on the moon, they had a parade for them on Broadway in New York City.

00:10:54 Vincent: My dad was working the parade so he wasn't at the hospital. My dad subsequently came later. So it's just kind of a funny story, interesting story, because of the history. And it was the weekend of Woodstock. So I was born in that same period of time, that weekend.

00:11:14 Vincent: Now fast forward, my dad's been on the job since 1969. I come along the summer of 69. They lived in Brooklyn, New York until 1971. And then they moved to Staten Island, New York. And throughout the '70s, my dad worked in one of the boroughs in Brooklyn, but a lot of the guys that he worked with, they would come over the house.

00:11:42 Vincent: And I don't know if I should say this, my parents weren't swingers, but when I think about it now, and I look back, my sister and I was supposed to be sleeping in bed and you'd hear all the chaos outside. We had like an above ground pool, couples, girlfriends, wives, all these characters that my dad worked with, supervisors, typical people in their late 20s, early 30s, just having a good time.

00:12:11 Vincent: So I remember that and almost like being a fly on the wall, hearing the stories and the fun stuff, not like the gory stuff. It was always the camaraderie piece, the funny stories that when I tell you my dad is 80 years old, my mother's gonna be 81. God bless, they're still alive. They still have me talk about it. My dad still tells stories from way back when. So it ties into the piece with me being enamored with that life.

00:12:42 Vincent: Fast forward, I realized it was a calling. It chose me. I didn't choose it. And I started writing these funny police stories based upon my own experience. And I feel there's so much power in the storytelling piece because you have this shared connection. There's this thread that connects us as first responders because of the human condition. And most people outside our little niche world don't realize how funny first responders can be. 

00:13:19 Vincent: Now, not all, but if I tell you my fondest memories and when I wax nostalgic about my time, it was the humor. It was the camaraderie. It was that fun part of being able to laugh at yourself, to laugh at the situations you are in. It protected us on so many different levels. And when I tell you it breaks my heart, because I'm in contact with the health and wellness unit at the New York City Police Department, that's non-existent.

00:13:55 Erin: The joy, the laughter, the banter, all of that?

00:13:57 Vincent: Gone. 

00:13:58 Erin: Because they said so or because they took the joy away?

00:14:02 Vincent: I feel that from what I understand, speaking to officers that are still active, which I only have a handful, but actually speaking to a detective that's in the unit, because I was trying to get a pulse on what's going on and see where I might be able to fit in to help, they're treated like machinery, like robots. The supervisory piece from the top down, they are not warm. They're not empathetic.

00:14:30 Vincent: It's do as I say, not as I do. It's a very cold existence. So everyone keeps everything inside. Guys, back in the day, we actually would leave the precinct and go across the street in a lot and just bullshit and drink and have laughs. We would go to people's weddings. We would have Christmas parties.

00:14:53 Vincent: I mean, there was so much within the department, even the people you didn't necessarily care for would come to these things. And that added another layer of fun in a way, because then you would be able in off duty setting, step to someone that maybe you didn't like. It was almost like, okay, we can talk about it here, but when the uniform comes on, you can't. And then of course people would get their liquid courage and that would also create this kind of thing. Apparently now, none of that exists. And if it does, it's in a very small sample size.

00:15:27 Erin: Wow. Do you think they even know what they're missing?

00:15:31 Vincent: You know what? I can't even fathom it because it's so foreign to me. And when I tell you, some of the things that I feel need to be done are so simple, and it takes people checking their ego at the door. People being human. Allow us to be human. From the top down and from the bottom up, we become our own worst enemy and this is part of the problem and forget the politics, forget the things we can't control, forget the bureaucratic structure within.

00:16:05 Vincent: I wrote a post in LinkedIn, I don't know if you guys happened to see it the other day. And I see these things that pop up, these quotes, and they speak to me and it makes me think about things that I think are applicable. And one of the things that popped into my head, and I can send you guys the post, "Be a leader within."

00:16:25 Vincent: So for example, you could be a police officer, you could be a supervisor, you could be anywhere in the structure, up or down. But let's just say the rank and file, and you know those [inaudible] sessions. Now does that do any good to get cynical or even more jaded or even get that blood flowing where you get angry and then- we've all been there. We're human where you have these moments where, "Okay, fuck everyone. I'm just going to do me."

00:16:55 Vincent: You're only hurting yourself. You're hurting your career as a professional. The public gets hurt because now you're angry and bitter and jaded and all of a sudden stuff. How about take control of your own emotions? People talk about emotional intelligence. That's like the new buzz phrase, but it's simple. Be the steward of yourself. Learn to drown out the noise and not to be all kumbaya, but learn to love, lead with love. 

00:17:22 Vincent: And even if it's two people or it's your squad or now it's your command and now it goes up the structure, that becomes contagious. And there's always going to be a percentage, they're not going to buy in, right? That's a them problem. We're looking at the bigger picture. And I think that's part of the issue. We don't look at the big picture. We're self-involved. We're only worried about what's in front of us. We're not thinking about, how does this little ripple become a tidal wave?

00:17:51 Vincent: And it's no different in the space we're in now. When I get my guinea rage going and I get angry, and I think I've shared this with Erin and even you, Cinnamon, when we've talked, there are people hiding in the- I call them wolves in sheep's clothing, right? We have people that are putting themselves out there as their hearts in the right place. And you guys know who they are. They're making it worse because the people that really need us are going to close that door because they come across someone that's disingenuous.

00:18:24 Vincent: And you know how first responders are. They're cynical. They just allow that door to open, that window. And now they see bullshit. They see someone that's disingenuous, that door closes and you know that has dire consequences. So when I think about it, it gets me so angry, but now I realize I have to practice what I preach. I have to drown out that noise. I have to use that to fuel my inner fire and connect with the right people. Keep being that good, positive voice, not making it about me, but being vulnerable enough and willing enough to put myself out there. And that's been a challenge.

00:19:08 Vincent: And I'm still on that journey and I'm growing and gathering strength and really finding, like really fine tuning my voice in where I fit in this thing. But once again, it's not about me. It's about how do we change what we all know is happening. We can't rely on the bureaucracy. We can't rely on the agencies. Now granted, there were some forward thinking agencies and they're really doing some good work. There's people in the space that we're talking about that they really have their heart in the right place, but we have to keep growing.

00:19:46 Vincent: Like I said, I think, I might've said to both of you, a high tide raises all boats. When you understand that concept, it's not about all, "Cinnamon and Erin are getting to shine. What about me?" That's silly. But the problem is that runs rampant throughout first responder agencies. People, they get their feelings hurt and then they do nasty things, unfortunately.

00:20:13 Erin: Well, and we know that there's a lot that goes into that. And you and I have touched on it offline about how past experiences can translate into our current day situations. And you've touched on the emotional and psychological scars that first responders carry already a little bit with what you just said, but I'm gonna pass the mic to Cinnamon, cause I think she was gonna ask a question.

00:20:37 Cinnamon: Yeah, actually, it's just part of-

00:20:39 Vincent: Sorry for being more winded.

00:20:41 Cinnamon: That's okay. No, that's part of doing this work is the passion that goes behind it. You can't do this kind of advocacy work and feel mediocre or a 5 about it. You end up at a 10 and you have passion and there are things that you want to get out there. And so coming from a place of advocacy, Erin and I talk about this all the time. You don't do this work because you had an idyllic career, or you don't do the work that we do because you had an idyllic childhood or an idyllic life.

00:21:19 Cinnamon: So for you, when did you start to notice those emotional and psychological scars that you were carrying as a first responder? When did that level of awareness come to you that some of the things that you were doing were not just because of the way you were or who you were, but were the results of the baggage of the job that you were carrying?

00:21:46 Vincent: Okay. So in my particular case, this is when I have processed these things that have happened, I've allowed to happen, right? I take ownership. I made decisions in my life that I own. I can look back now and I could realize some of the mistakes along the way. Some of the ways I was thinking of things at the time, maybe I was rationalizing, maybe I was covering up and justifying, I own that.

00:22:19 Vincent: So, I say that because to try to answer your question, but in a not a roundabout way, in a direct way, but there's parts to it, there's layers. So, for me personally, I don't think that I struggled per se with the on the job stuff. Meaning I went into this career knowing that there was danger. I went into this career knowing there were going to be some circumstances that were violent because that was the reality.

00:22:57 Vincent: And having a dad that shared some of that, not that he sugarcoated, but he shared enough for me to understand what that world was. The part that I struggled with was the internal piece. I had a hard time understanding that we had people within our organization that were disingenuous. And I wrote this down. You've heard "Rules for ye, not for thee." The hypocrisy within the police department, I had a very hard time with. I struggled with that my whole career. So that's the police part.

00:23:43 Vincent: But the lion's share of my struggles, I had a hard time making peace with that. So I carried that into my personal life where the cynicism grew, the anger grew. And now, the more I think about it, I share with you guys in the beginning, what I was enamored with the job, the social piece.

00:24:09 Vincent: Now, being young in New York City, wearing the magnet, I am a social person. I allowed myself to be put in situations that maybe weren't necessarily the best for me. I would say when I started in 92 to probably 1998, I really did a good job. I kept it in check. Now we're all adults here. We are at a place in our lives where we've had relationships, we've had children, marriages, what have you.

00:24:44 Vincent: I got to a point where I was unhappy in my marriage and I thought I was expressing myself and trying to communicate with my partner and there was a disconnect. And unfortunately, I started living a double life. And I'm not proud of that. You know, I'm not justifying it.

00:25:14 Vincent: But that, for me, was part of my demise, my slow downward trajectory into where I ultimately ended what I call my personal rock bottom. I was told by a clinician further down the line, I was already retired from the police department, that I was this rock that got whittled down into a pebble.

00:25:43 Vincent: When that was spoken to me, when I tell you it was like I got hit with a bolt of lightning, I just got that visual of a strong person becoming less than. And I allowed that to happen up here. No one else created that. I created that.

00:26:01 Cinnamon: Can I ask a quick question in that? So when you said this is my demise, this double life that you started leading, would you also say that it would qualify as coping? Do you feel like the actions that you took were also a way for you to defuse or work out or tolerate continuing in the way that you are already going?

00:26:35 Vincent: So I'm glad you brought that up. And that's a great question. Just so we understand each other, I just recently had a conversation with a retired New York City first grade detective. She's the first female detective, I believe, that made first grade. I want to connect her with you guys. She was part of a human trafficking component. We haven't met face to face. She actually reached out to me on LinkedIn. She's done some speaking.

00:27:06 Vincent: I mentioned that because we had a detailed conversation about what I just shared with you. And it wasn't just the male officers. It's the female officers as well. So when you mentioned coping and her and I had this conversation, we attribute some of it to the thought of real or imagined.

00:27:29 Vincent: We come from a generation where we have one foot out the door. So now if our significant other, we feel we're not being appreciated, we're not being respected, we're not being valued, we're looking elsewhere. And now you add the fact that you're in this dangerous profession, you start telling yourself, "Hey, this might be it for me. I need to enjoy it and get the most of it. And you're going to see comfort wherever that might be." 

00:27:54 Vincent: And whether LEOs or other first responders talk about this because they don't want to talk about the ugliness behind the curtain, I lay it all out there. To me, it's strength. I have no problem sharing my deepest, darkest secrets because I feel that that might help someone that maybe is in that dark place and they're looking at themselves like I am less than.

00:28:27 Vincent: I know when I was in my deepest, darkest point and it happened to me twice, you go through that hamster wheel of emotions. The would-ofs, the could-ofs, the should-ofs. You get angry, you get sad, you get despondent, you fall into this deep depression and it's different for everyone. But then again, some people have similar trajectories.

00:28:48 Vincent: Nonetheless, when it happens to you and you know what it feels like and by the grace of God, you come out of it, you have enough experience to relate to another person that feels those emotions. Their reasons might be different. Loss is loss. Whether it be the death of a family member, a spouse, a friend, or the loss of a marriage or any other kind of relationship- I mean, we can talk about all different examples, but the feelings are very similar, I believe.

00:29:26 Vincent: The last thing I wanted to say, when I think about my trajectory of a career, to your point, Cinnamon, I'm not the poster child of what a New York City police officer, what we want to necessarily show out there, right? I have ugliness. I have some ruffled edges, so to speak. But that, in my opinion, therein lies the power.

00:29:54 Vincent: Therein lies the difference and the change to get the conversation started. I had one of the nicest compliments paid to me most recently. There's a guy, I didn't work with him direct. He actually left the sixth precinct before I got there, but I went to a golf outing in October and a friend who I worked with knew I was writing. He says, "I wanted you to talk to Steve Osborne. He wrote one book. He's been a consultant on like Sex in the City and some other shows." 

00:30:26 Vincent: And I've been sending him some of my rough drafts of some of the stories. He said to me, he goes, "Vin," he said, "I don't want to blow smoke up your ass because I keep it real and I want to inspire you and I want to give you constructive criticism, but I want to say this." He goes, "First of all, you have a voice and that's hard to find and come by." He said, "So that's great." He said, "But the other thing he goes, you don't present yourself as the hero."

00:30:52 Vincent: I use self-deprecating humor. I keep it real. And he said, "When I pick up a book and I see that this guy, oh, I did this, I did that," he goes, "I put it right down because it's bullshit." Now, did I have moments where I could say, "Yeah, wow, you really stepped up?" I don't think that helps, to be honest.

00:31:13 Cinnamon: So I'm listening and...

00:31:15 Vincent: Sorry, I'm talking too much.

00:31:18 Cinnamon: No, no, no, no, no. I'm thinking about what you're saying and we're still in it, but I think we've ebbed and flowed because that's the nature of this stuff between going from you're admired one day and you're condemned the next, bad cops, all that whole conversation. And so when you're hearing that, how does that mesh with the idea that you recognize not all cops are great and you recognize that some cops are genuine and other cops are disingenuous. 

00:31:57 Cinnamon: And you know that there is that thing out there about there are bad apples and what happens when you pull one apple out. And so when you are in this huge agency and you're like, there are these people in here that align perhaps in a variety of ways with what people are talking about out there- I can tell you, like, I can call my sister a bitch. Don't fucking call my sister a bitch, right? 

00:32:30 Vincent: It's like with your own children. 

00:32:32 Cinnamon: Right. Like, Erin might be able to say, "My kid's being an asshole today," but I know better, even as Auntie Cinnamon. Don't be like, "No, she's being a bitch," because like, that's just not okay. So when you're having these experiences- and this is such a part of your struggle. And then at the end of your career and maybe before, maybe I'm unwise or naive thinking that when it started coming to our attention that that was the beginning. But how do you make that mesh with the idea you're recognizing that people in the agency are shitty and the community is recognizing that people in the agency are shitty and you're like, but don't call my sister a bitch. Or maybe you're not. Like, how does that work?

00:33:18 Vincent: That's a real good question. so I can only speak for myself. And I don't want to make myself out to be something I'm not. But I consider myself a little bit of an enigma. A lot of times throughout my career, I'd be out socially and no one thought I was a cop. I mean, don't get me wrong. I have certain aspects. But a lot of my social ways of communicating, you wouldn't think I was a cop.

00:33:50 Vincent: And as a man, and from my generation of man, and especially growing up in that close-knit Italian Catholic community, guys don't speak like I speak. They don't communicate about the things that I'll talk about.

00:34:06 Cinnamon: Feelings.

00:34:07 Vincent: Exactly. So to this day, at 55 years old, I have my phone here and it's buzzing. I'm part of a group text with three guys that I came on the job with that we we've been hanging out, doing things together and they ripped me to shreds. Try to at least, I shouldn't say they do, they try to. Metrosexual, who's this Vince Scotto, because now they see the interviews. I keep it real, but it's good ribbing because they do it to my face and I know they talk well about me behind my back, I would think.

00:34:46 Cinnamon: That's who you want as your friend.

00:34:48 Vincent: For the most part. Nonetheless-

00:34:49 Cinnamon: The people that talk shit to your face but promote you behind your back. That's the ideal.

00:34:55 Vincent: Nonetheless, I realized at a certain point, I don't want to say I'm different, but there are some differences. And even within my own family, I have this struggle because- I love my parents. I love my sister, but I've said to them, especially when I was going through coming out of this the second time, I remember telling them, I said, "I'm on an uneven playing field with the three of you."

00:35:20 Vincent: I said, "You asked me a question and I give you brutal honesty, directness, whether you like it or not. I throw myself under the bus." I said, "But when I ask it of you, you clam up." I said, "How do you expect?" Because I get the hit from my family that I'm not empathetic. I said, it's not that I'm not empathetic. I said, "You call me three o'clock in the morning, I'm going to be there, but I'm not going to commiserate on the phone with you over bullshit. I cut it off."

00:35:51 Vincent: So how that ties into the police department and your question, it's walking a tightrope. I was referred to by my own father as a boss fighter. And I said, "Dad, I'm not a boss fighter. I said, "I stand up for what's right, not what's political." So, I struggled with that within the job because I did not kiss ass, and I'm proud of that. 

00:36:18 Vincent: I had opportunities to do a lot more, and even in my situation, I still had opportunities without being political. I didn't take advantage of some of those because my family was more important. Being the best dad I could be and being involved in that aspect of my children's lives was more important than anything in the career, and I recognized that a long time ago, and I'm okay with that decision. 

00:36:43 Vincent: But while I was on, I was vocal with certain aspects that dealt directly with my sphere of influence. So, if we had a supervisor above my level, whether when I was a police officer, if it was a sergeant, lieutenant, or captain, as a sergeant, if it was a lieutenant, a captain, or chief, I would show up to a scene and that supervisor was trying to give me the business. 

00:37:17 Vincent: I stood my ground, but you know what saved me? I knew how to articulate in a way where I said it without physically saying it: "You better step the fuck back because if you push me, this is what's going to happen." I was able to articulate it in such a way where they left me alone because they knew here's a guy you push, he's going to fight. 

00:37:43 Vincent: Now, it's very hard to do, and not everyone can do it. I had this way for whatever reason because you know what I always fell back on? My work spoke for itself. I was the guy you couldn't question what I did out in the field. I wasn't a fuck up. I wasn't doing anything bad. 

00:38:06 Vincent: And now, I was a standup guy where I was respected by my peers. And then, as a supervisor, I would never ask anyone to do something that I wouldn't be willing to do, too, so there was that respect piece. And I got the job done. I took care of my people. Anyone I worked with, they always knew if they needed something, they can count on me. So, that paid dividends. 

00:38:32 Vincent: And here's the other piece. We had police administrative assistants. They didn't get treated well. Mostly women. Oftentimes, they were minority. I treated those people like they were the chief of police because I understood the dynamics. I share this, and I didn't do it with this intention. It's just who I am. I'm a social person. I would ask about their lives. I'd bring in coffee. And they appreciated that. 

00:39:04 Vincent: If I needed anything and I just said, "Oh, Rose, could..." [snap]. Like that. Because there was the level of respect and appreciation. I share all this because unfortunately, that's the rarity. Some of us are like that, but the majority are not. They're transactional. And that, they struggled with.

00:39:28 Erin: Well, what you're speaking into is really humans at human level. It's not law enforcement. It's not being a first responder. It's humans. 

00:39:36 Vincent: It's people. 

00:39:37 Erin: Yeah, it's just people. And that's unfortunate. And that is something that I would love to see change in our world is the concept of "love wins". And it's that whole "you can catch more flies with honey" and lifting each other up versus shitting on each other because you're afraid there's something you're not going to get or you're going to lose in your life.

00:39:58 Erin: And so, I imagine that you were one of the unique ones, as you were saying, that actually was able to create that boundary and that foundation within your job. And now that you are out of the law enforcement side, as far as actually just walking around with a badge and doing the cop role, I wonder if it translates- that way of being, translates differently, and is better received or still not received as well, or how you would see that as a coach in what you're doing nowadays. 

00:40:32 Erin: Do you feel like it translates better or because you're still dealing with kind of that first responder law enforcement individual that it still becomes a challenge and that you have to kind of build that foundation before they see, "Okay, this is legit who he is"?

00:40:49 Vincent: So, what I've found, in a pretty small sample size, as far as the other side and the coaching piece and the advocacy kind of stuff and putting myself out there, I think there are some people that buy in right away because it drips from my body, meaning my passion. They hear it in my voice. If they see me face to face or even in this setting, they could just see it. 

00:41:19 Vincent: The people that are in it for the right reasons appreciate it. Now, the flip side, because I've seen this, the people that are in it for an ulterior motive and have an axe to grind, because I'm a threat. So, this happened when I was on the job. 

00:41:40 Erin: Pause. Yeah. Tell me more about how you're saying, "Because I'm a threat." How do you mean?

00:41:45 Vincent: So, Chris and I had this conversation. Chris Perry. And thank you for connecting me with him. We were on the phone for two hours.

00:41:54 Erin: I bet. 

00:41:56 Vincent: He's in my circle of fucking around with where I'll send him some funny stuff and vice versa. He shared with me, there's someone out there in this world–I don't want to name-drop, and I don't want to give them any shine, regardless. We can talk off-air. Chris knows the person. Chris referenced that he was at this person's seminar, and he told me something that got me really sick. 

00:42:24 Vincent: Now, I had never met this person. I saw a few little things that threw up red flags. He said to me, "Vin, first of all, this person hardly looks in your eye, anyone, for other than a glancing moment." He said, "But someone like yourself, he would look away because he knows you know what he is," and he's a fraud. So, that's what I mean by a threat. 

00:42:56 Erin: Well, that is Spidey senses at its best. And people are like, "Oh, if you can see this mirror very, very clearly, then I don't want that to reflect back on me." 

00:43:07 Vincent: So, here's the thing, Erin, and this is human nature, right? The human condition. Whether first responders or not, people are people. We're fallible. We're human, but recognize it. Own it. Some people have a hard time doing it. Some people can't be honest with themselves, so how could they be honest with you? 

00:43:27 Vincent: I struggle with that. I am not perfect. I make mistakes. When we get off this interview, I'm sure I'm going to fuck up three more times today, at least. I'm going to say something inappropriate. I'm going to do something that might be offensive, but I own it. I try to live my life in this regard. And I'm a work in progress, and I will forever be a work in progress in evolving. 

00:43:52 Vincent: One of the things I tell my three children, who are 22, going to be 25, and 28, I've been talking this to them since they're little and trying to encourage them, "When you go to bed at night and you're looking in the mirror and you're brushing your teeth, that's the only person you have to answer to.” How did the day go? Okay. Evaluate. I did this, I did this, I was good here, I lacked here, I could have been better here. And you try to be a better version of yourself tomorrow. Some days, you will be; some days, you won't. It's okay. And sometimes, you have to give yourself a little grace. Sometimes, you have to be your own best coach. 

00:44:37 Vincent: I feel as people, oftentimes, and I like to use sports analogies because I'm a big sports person with coaching, we're too much on the defensive, not on the offensive. We're always worried about, not in all cases, but this is part of the evolution—we're worried about what could go wrong, what might go wrong, what we didn't get, what we think we deserve, instead of trying to live in the moment. Try to say, "Okay, I am imperfect. I am not Erin. I am not Cinnamon. I'm Vin. I have to live my life for Vin. What works for Vin?" 

00:45:18 Vincent: It's no different than the food we consume. Cinnamon might love dark chocolate, but every time she takes a bite, she gets a rash. Whereas me, it energizes me. What works for Erin doesn't necessarily work for Cinnamon, right? But at least acknowledge it. Let's not put up a facade. And you both know we're in a world where everything is fake. Everything is AI-generated, digital, living in this fantasy world, and we're comparing ourselves to everyone else. When does that stop? 

00:45:53 Vincent: And I bring that up because it's not only a societal issue, but when it comes to what we're doing, our niche, our underserved community, we need to be our own best coaches and allies, and build each other up, not knock each other down because we all know it's us against the politicians.

00:46:21 Erin: Yeah. And you actually just answered the question, I think. 

00:46:25 Cinnamon: Yes. 

00:46:25 Erin: There might be a little more to it that I was going to ask you next, which was: if you had the ability to shift the conversation, like on a-

00:46:32 Vincent: You know I'm Italian, right?

00:46:34 Erin: Yes. The magic wand.

00:46:35 Vincent: A lot of talking, a lot of hand movements. 

00:46:37 Erin: And also, it's kind of helpful because what I think is important for people to kind of hear from folks like you is how does the conversation around mental health and first responders actually shift? From your own perspective, and as I said, you touched on a little bit, what do you want people to understand? 

00:47:01 Vincent: So, what I would like to see and continue to be part of with this community, with that mission, if you will, that voice, whether it be people that are still in the first responder profession, people on the other side, people that are in the advocacy place, the key–and if my kids were here, they would crack up because this is another thing that they almost mimic me, communication is the key. 

00:47:34 Vincent: If we don't know what's happening and we assume, we shoot first and ask questions later, we hurt ourselves. So, whether it be the water cooler talk where Cinnamon and I are working in a police car together, and we're on patrol, and she says to me, "Did you hear what happened with Erin?" "Cinnamon, what happened?" "Oh, she's sleeping with the captain." "What?" And it could be total BS because she has an axe to grind with Erin because Erin just got an assignment that Cinnamon wanted.

00:48:15 Vincent: Now, I understand people can be petty. It's human nature. But words hurt. So now, what happens? Vin's got a big mouth, and Vin now tells the guys in the locker room, and guess what? What does Erin get labeled? 

00:48:33 Erin: A hoochie.

00:48:37 Cinnamon: A dick climber. I said it.

00:48:41 Erin: I've never heard dick.

00:48:43 Vincent: Are you allowed to say that? 

00:48:47 Cinnamon: Yeah.

00:48:47 Vincent: So now, the reality is that's not true, number one. Cinnamon had an axe to grind, wanted to create these optics. But now, what adds insult to injury, no one knows this other than Erin's partner, her mother's got stage four cancer, and she's going to the hospital every day after work. She's stressed out. She's just barely keeping it together. Now you tell me, is that what we want? Of course not. We don't want that. 

00:49:20 Cinnamon: Well, there's two points. There's two points in that. You got two characters that you get to choose if you're going to be. One is the person who has enough malice in them that they would strategically try to sabotage somebody, but even less demonic or looks like the bad guy is just the simple person who listens and says, "Hey, I don't know if this is true or not, but this is what I got told." 

00:49:54 Cinnamon: Don't be that asshole. That's the kind of person that sits on the fence. They could be good. They could be mediocre. They could be bad. If you're an evil person, you're going to be that. But don't be the person who thinks that they don't get labeled "part of the problem" simply because they say, "Well, I don't know if it's true."

00:50:15 Vincent: So, this is what I said on a wellness podcast back in November. I was asked this question: "What would you say to anyone active or in any kind of first responder profession?" And I said, "Don't be part of the problem. Be part of the solution." It's that simple. Ties into what you said. If you don't have anything nice to say, like we were taught as kids, don't say anything. But don't stand by as a bystander and not take a stand for something that you know is wrong. That's almost worse in a way. 

00:50:51 Cinnamon: Yeah. So, I had a situation, and I think this plays right into what we're talking about. And it might be a very good note to like take us out on because I think what you just said, absolutely on point. In practice, I think it gets a little hairier. Let me explain what that means. 

00:51:12 Cinnamon: So, if I'm a seasoned person on the job and I have beef with the chief, and I can go back and tell you all these crappy things that he's done, and I see this chief go talk to one of the rookies. And chief, they look like you're just getting along, laughing, whatever. Chief walks out, I go right up to the rookie, and I'm like, "Listen, I see what's going on. I just want to give you the heads up. Watch your back. He's going to pretend like he's your friend, and then you're going to assume that he's got you, and he's going to dunk you under the water just like anybody else would." 

00:51:56 Cinnamon: And you think that you're part of the solution, when in actuality, that person is a hundred percent part of the problem. And it's coming from a good place, but it's doing the wrong thing. If this chief is as shady as you think, they're going to show their true colors, and everybody gets to learn their own lesson, because you know how that works. 

00:52:25 Cinnamon: "You can say whatever, but I'm not going to believe it until it happens to me or I see it happen." That does not work. But the idea that I'm helping when actually I'm hurting, that's where I think it gets hairy. And you have to ask yourself, when you're looking at whether or not you're the problem or the solution, you have to be asking yourself, "What is my motive? Does this need to be said? And does it need to be said right now? And does it need to be said by me?"

00:52:59 Vincent: I understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree because it ties into my way of thinking as well. What I feel is another part of the problem with the hierarchy and the politics within a first responder profession, and it carries over into our personal lives, which is part of the disconnect, we don't have the luxury, as you know, to always unpack a lot of this stuff.

00:53:29 Vincent: As far as police services or any first responder, that radio is chirping in a lot of cases, and you have to go from problem to solution, problem to solution, in very quick fashion, which doesn't allow time to decompress. Doesn't allow time to take a breath and say, "Okay, what just happened here?" We kind of push it under the rug, so to speak, and we know what happens over time, right?

00:53:59 Vincent: Whether you want to say it adds to PTSD or other bad decisions in one's life, I found in my personal experience, I was able, at least I thought, to separate my feelings about politics within a paramilitary organization like the beast of the NYPD and not necessarily take that home. But then, I realized I was taking it home because it was creating this feeling of anger and cynicism that, occasionally, I would take out on the wrong person. 

00:54:41 Vincent: But then, the piece about going from incident, problem, solution, problem, solution, that's how I was communicating in my personal life. I wasn't unpacking. I wasn't doing what I'm trying to do now in my coaching place, active listening. And even on this podcast, I do a lot of talking. It's hard. I get excited about something. I want to solve the problem. I see things sometimes in black and white, and I know there's a lot of gray. I'm like, all right, I see this so clear, and the things that I know about. I'm not going to tell you I know how to split an atom, right? 

00:55:22 Vincent: But when it comes to certain interpersonal relationships within a first responder career, the active professional piece and the personal piece, and now, being on the other side of it, I can talk all day about that. Not saying that I have all the answers. I'm not some sort of self-help guru. But I could have the conversation. I could articulate various points or for some clarity. 

00:55:49 Vincent: My struggle... What I've struggled with professionally, personally, and I feel I'm a little more evolved, but it's still a work in progress, and it'll always be—the active listening piece. And that's something that I think, as a profession, we can do more of professionally and personally. Not easy, though. 

00:56:10 Cinnamon: No. 

00:56:11 Erin: Well, I want to say that, first of all, you're not wrong. Active listening is-

00:56:15 Vincent: Thank you.

00:56:16 Erin: One of the challenging parts of life, for sure. We all want to a) fix it, help, or we think we know the answer, and most of the time, we don't, for the other person. We might have our own experience as an answer or a solution, but that doesn't mean it works for everybody. 

00:56:32 Vincent: It's not a one-fit-all scenario. You're right. 

00:56:34 Erin: Right. Exactly. So one, we could talk to you forever. We could make a whole series just from talking to you, I'm sure, between the three of us and our chatterbox selves. But one, I want to know, if people want to work with you, if they want to learn more about you, if they want to know, "How can this guy who is a no nonsense kind of dude be my coach and talk me through the bullshit," how do they find you?

00:57:01 Vincent: All right. So, I don't want to plug myself. I hope you guys know that's not... I appreciate that. 

00:57:06 Erin: Hey!

00:57:07 Cinnamon: That's what we do. 

00:57:08 Vincent: I know. 

00:57:09 Erin: I'm like, the only way that we can change the direction of the conversation is to get more people like you in front of the people that need people like you. So, this isn't a plug for you. I'm asking you to make yourself available for our listener because we need people like you to create that ripple. 

00:57:26 Vincent: I appreciate that. That's very nice of you. Very kind. So, I guess I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but I drink coffee, so fuck them, right? I'm joking. So, yeah, I appreciate that. And I have a couple of ways, I guess. If people want to reach me direct, that might be the best way. And I make myself available. 

00:57:49 Vincent: This is not something that's transactional. This is me from here. 'Cause it is personal to me. And we didn't unpack this. I was in a very bad place in my life, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially a first responder. And I feel I have a way of communicating things, and being, as I say, we use the word in Italian, consigliere—a good counselor, a good resource. I like to be that kind of person. 

00:58:16 Vincent: So, if anyone wants to reach me, you can go on LinkedIn. It's Vincent Scotto. And you can instant message me. You can email me if you want. I have a domain site, and I'm lazy. I got to really ramp it up with some of the podcasts and different things I'm trying to do. It's vincent, lowercase, v-i-n-c-e-n-t, @boyz, b-o-y-z, -in-blue.com. So, it's vincent@boyz-in-blue.com. But girls in blue are included too. 

00:58:56 Erin: And we'll put that too in the show notes. We'll put it on your guest feature on our website, so it'll be an easy click away. But thanks for including us girls, too. 

00:59:06 Vincent: Very important. I think I shared this with you offline, Erin. I got really hot about some joker on LinkedIn. He was calling out female officers. And when I tell you, I worked with some female officers that I could tell you with no joke. And I worked with guys that looked like literally the poster child of what a cop's supposed to look like, and they would freeze. So, you can't judge a book by its cover. That's just ignorance.

00:59:35 Erin: God. Well, that's a beautiful thing to kind of end with today. And we appreciate your time. Happy Valentine's Day to you, by the way. 

00:59:42 Vincent: I appreciate you guys.

00:59:47 Erin: And obviously, we know that we've been- 

00:59:49 Vincent: You got to leave it with love, right? 

00:59:50 Erin: That's right! And we've been connecting offline, and we intend on continuing to connect and support each other.

00:59:57 Vincent: I wanted to tell you, and I'm going to really make a concerted effort—I want to hopefully come to you guys in Kentucky. 

01:00:05 Erin: That'd be great! 

01:00:06 Vincent: Yeah. 

01:00:07 Cinnamon: Hey, I'm basically just seeing this as a giant sleepover slumber party opportunity where we have organized or contributed to the organization of the field of first responder wellness. Everybody-

01:00:25 Vincent: Can I say something that this is not going to go live on? I told you a little bit about my history, right? 

01:00:31 Erin: Uh-huh. 

01:00:32 Vincent: You sure you want to go back?

01:00:35 Erin: Well, listen. Don't say anything- 

01:00:36 Cinnamon: We'll put you in pajamas, so you don't have to decide. We will bring the pajamas that will be appropriate for you.

01:00:42 Erin: And there's different rooms, and different beds, and doors and locks. 

01:00:46 Cinnamon: Yes. 

00:00:47 Erin: But she's thinking like- 

01:00:49 Vincent: I'm joking.

01:00:50 Erin: Yeah.

01:00:51 Cinnamon: Well, right now, we have a friend, actually, who will be there in Kentucky, who over the summer, when I would talk to him on FaceTime, he would see my backyard and he's like, "Oh my God, why have we not planned a camping outing at your house, and we all just sleep in the backyard?" And I'm like, "I guess that's for the summer of 2025." 

01:01:12 Vincent: Is that the summer of love?

01:01:14 Cinnamon: I mean, that's when you were born. So, we could recreate it only with less drugs but just as much love. 

01:01:21 Vincent: Yeah. How about good country music and country line dancing? Then I'm in.

01:01:26 Cinnamon: Okay. So, you're going to have to draw the line there because Erin will disinvite herself. 

01:01:31 Erin: Except maybe I'll be turned out this weekend in Nashville. 

01:01:35 Cinnamon: That's true. 

01:01:36 Erin: Yeah, I'm hoping-

01:01:38 Vincent: [crosstalk]. 

01:01:40 Cinnamon: I feel like there's an aspect of country music has evolved significantly in the last few years with Jelly Roll and Post Malone, and hell, even Cowboy Carter, right? So, I feel, even within the genre of country, there is a place for my sister here.

01:02:03 Vincent: Without a doubt. 

01:02:04 Cinnamon: And this whole mentality that country is not good, it's speaking from a place of thinking that even country itself is homogenous. And I mean, I can give you some classic country from my record collection back here. And then I can also get you some country that is what my people would say, I call bullshit, that is not country.

01:02:33 Vincent: Exactly. They're more curious. 

01:02:35 Cinnamon: Yeah. 

01:02:36 Vincent: So, you get it. Cinnamon and Erin, just to enlighten you just a little bit, maybe we can change your way of thinking. 

01:02:43 Erin: Okay, wait. Before you say this. 

01:02:44 Vincent: Wait, let me finish. Come on. Let me say it. 

01:02:46 Erin: Okay, go ahead. 

01:02:46 Vincent: Just hold that thought. So, the way I would explain country, there was a time where country was very twangy and very hillbilly. It's evolved so much. In fact, Alan Jackson in the 90s said, "Gone country," where it's become more pop in a way. People that maybe had a hard time in one genre found their voice in country. And believe it or not-

01:03:13 Cinnamon: Jelly Roll. 

01:03:14 Vincent: Not only Jelly Roll. Teddy Swims, very soulful, R&B kind of voice.

01:03:17 Cinnamon: Dude, Post Malone.

01:03:20 Erin: Teddy Swims is not country. 

01:03:22 Cinnamon: Yes. 

01:03:22 Vincent: Guess what? He sings with country artists. 

01:03:25 Erin: Oh my God, I love that guy. I love that guy before he was a country. 

01:03:27 Cinnamon: You love country!

01:03:29 Erin: I love that guy before he was a thing! Teddy Swims is absolutely country now.

01:03:31 Vincent: So, check this out. Erin, I'm going to send this to you. So, not only do I love country line dancing, I dance all the Spanish stuff, and there's some Spanish artists that do some mashups. But I also love 70s disco. I have a mashup. It's Teddy Swims doing the door with "I Will Survive" Gloria Gaynor. I'm going to send it to you. 

01:03:55 Erin: Okay. 

01:03:55 Cinnamon: Do you have a dance routine that you've choreographed that you can teach all of us? 

01:04:00 Vincent: Yes. That song, specifically. I have other ones, but that one's a classic and it's easy, and you'll love it. It puts a smile on your face. I'm telling you, you'll feel so energized and happy. 

01:04:12 Erin: Well, I would love to hear it. And I will say that I am not so anti-country. I remember I used to have Shania Twain CDs, and Faith Hill CDs, and Tim McGraw CDs, and those kinds of things back in the day. There are country people that I like. And it's not my go-to. I'm not driving around listening to country. 

01:04:32 Vincent: Okay.

01:04:33 Erin: So, all of that said–

01:04:34 Vincent: Sit with me. We're going to flip her.

01:04:37 Erin: I will let you flip.

01:04:38 Cinnamon: Turn around.

01:04:38 Erin: I will be open-minded. And knowing what you said about Teddy Swims who I– Oh, Bonnie Raitt, too. I just went to see Bonnie Raitt two summers ago with my dad and my brother. When he did "I Can't Make You Love Me" cover, that was when I fell in love with him. Long story short, I'm not so closed off that I haven't experienced it. 

01:05:00 Cinnamon: We have four and a half hours in the car where I get to prep her with "This is what country is today" before she gets there. And we already have plans upon arrival. 

01:05:12 Vincent: I’m so jealous. My son's coming into town tomorrow, 'cause at first, I was trying to wrap my head around the idea of making it work, but he's coming in tomorrow. But you guys are going to have such a good time.

01:05:26 Erin: Oh, yeah. It's going to be like summer camp. So many people we love. 

01:05:29 Cinnamon: I'm dragging her to Robert's Western World on Broadway. 

01:05:33 Vincent: I never went. 

01:05:34 Erin: Oh my God, you've never been there? 

01:05:36 Vincent: I heard about it. I never made it there.

01:05:38 Cinnamon: It's one of my favorite places. I love that place. That and Bluebird Cafe. 

01:05:42 Vincent: And I didn't make it there either. It was on my list. I know.

01:05:46 Cinnamon: What did you do while you were in town? 

01:05:49 Erin: I know what Bluebird Cafe is.

01:05:50 Vincent: I was a tourist. I went to all the tourist spots. 

01:05:53 Erin: Yeah. Well, listen. We could sit here and tell our listeners all about my-

01:05:59 Cinnamon: Yeah, that's for another–

01:06:01 Erin: Getting converted to country fans.

01:06:03 Vincent: [crosstalk]

01:06:05 Erin: I didn't say turnout. But thank you so much for your time. 

01:06:09 Vincent: Thank you. It's a lot of fun.

01:06:16 Erin: Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of After the Tones Drop. We've been bringing you some real mental health insights, and we'd love to hear what you think. If you're enjoying this show, take a minute and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. And don't forget, share this podcast with someone who might benefit from it. 

01:06:32 Erin: A big thank you to Whole House Counseling and Novus Home Mortgage for sponsoring today's episode. And a special shout-out to Rob Maccabee for writing and producing our show's music.

01:06:45 Erin: Just a quick reminder, After The Tones Drop is here for informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for medical or psychological advice. If you're in need of help, please reach out to a mental health professional in your area. For more resources, head over to afterthetonesdrop.com and check out our resources tab. We really appreciate you being a part of this community. Thanks for listening and sharing.