SPECIAL RELEASE- The Anniversary Effect: When Loss Leaves a Mark

EP87: The Anniversary Effect

Erin: [00:00:00] We, um, have a pretty interesting day today, and we wanted to, extend some things that we are understanding about difficult days to our folks out there, our clients, and, um,

Cinnamon: I think that, it's interesting,when it comes to substance abuse, people always say like, I want a clinician who's been through it, right?

I don't want to try to get sober based on the counsel of someone who's never been addicted. Like, it's such a unique feeling, right? And, um, we don't always get that. In mental health, like we don't say, yeah, can I please have somebody with anxiety, depression, or bipolar, uh, to help guide me through this process, but I think when you have a clinician that even if you don't know what they've experienced, you can really appreciate when you're like, I feel like they get it.

And this was [00:01:00] something that we've been talking about for years. It's one thing to support people as they're going through it.but it's a very different experience when all of a sudden you can say, I don't know how it feels for you, but I've been through something similar. And. Even though people are taking their lives, unfortunately, on a daily basis, we've clearly seen that so much in social media.

It's like, it's our own big deal and it feels way different than anyone could imagine that hasn't been through it. Like, 

it's this club you don't want to be a part of, a Boy Scout badge you didn't want to earn. 

It's just a, it's a, I'm starting to learn that it parallels a lot of like, that it's not as helpful to talk about it with someone who hasn't been through it [00:02:00] because it is such a unique experience.

Erin: Yeah. I was following this guy last night. God, I don't even know who he is. Rob introduced me to him and he had this three consecutive week seminar about grief and loss and about the life that's born from that and this weird, kind of way and not life like we would typically look at it, but the ripple effect that it creates.

He was talking about the coins at the bottom of a welland we know that they're there and it's, it's everyone's wishes but yet nobody wants to go to the bottom of the well to get the coins because then they have to be faced to look at what may or may not happen. But it was just like really beautiful metaphor about how.

Often grief comes and we're not really ready and [00:03:00] we put hopes and dreams in these wells and then suddenly all of these hopes and dreams are at the bottom of this well, and how that translates to grief and loss and,we, Also, we're very comfortable with talking about trauma and how it lives in the body and we often refer to the body keeps the score.

of course, there's people out there that want to say, that's not true, blah, blah, blah, the body doesn't keep the score. And I say, um, actually, Yes, it does. and I, noticed, for example, yesterday I had a massive headache all day long. Like one of those ones where you're just like, uh, I'm going to puke or, uh, I need to just lay down and Tylenol wasn't helping and I did like the massage thing and, um, you know, it's been a couple of days.

Like when I start to get sick, my eyes get hot. yeah, it's weird. I'm like, Oh, this must be [00:04:00] a fever or something. But I noticed like the day before that I had hot eyes. and I'm like, that's weird. I haven't really even been around people to get sick. Right. I mean, my kids have, but then last night I'm like, Oh, it's. It's the anniversary effect. 

Cinnamon: Yeah. Well, and I've been a little preoccupied this week and so I've not, been anticipating it like some kind of like countdown.but I've. I noticed other things happening in my body that were unexplainable until you had said Hey, tomorrow's the anniversary of our friend's death.

Um,you know, What, what, what do we do? Do we do anything? And I was like, Oh yeah, that's the interesting thing about our body is keeping the score. Our bodies don't have to tell [00:05:00] us, Like we don't have to know for our body to know. And. Our body is hoping that the signals that it's sending is gonna be, all that we need to have, I don't know, that reminder.

but yeah, even though my head was somewhere else dealing with other things, My body was going into grief mode 

Erin: and 

Cinnamon: I didn't know it, but like how you had your own aha moment of like, Oh, this is what's coming up. It was like when you texted me and said something about it, I was like, Oh, well that makes things make sense.

And. I think, you know, in terms of body keeps a score and people, you know, it's, it's a day out of the year and why is it so difficult? And there is something called the anniversary effect and there's actual, psychology researchers who are saying the anniversary effect should be a symptom of, maybe not a, uh, a [00:06:00] criteria, but a symptom of PTSYou know,I compare a lot of things to childbirth, Like childbirth is pretty common. multiple babies are being born every day. But if it's your baby, if you're the one having the baby, it's a really big fucking deal. And if even as common as it is, it is still lethal. You know, for a lot of people, so common does not necessarily diminish the significance or seriousness, right?

So you know, as, as everybody is having all kinds of anniversaries, it's still,like, yeah, but this was my person and there's, it doesn't ever feel like there's a way that in the midst of so many of our first responders taking their lives, 

it just doesn't feel like there's a great way. To say, Hey everybody, I want to tell you about my friend who's not here anymore. Like there's just not [00:07:00] the gravity of it. You can't explain it. You know, like people hear about it like, Oh yeah, my, my cousin's ex husband, you know, took their life. But like I would just love to grab people by the shoulders and say, no, I, I need, I need to tell you about my friend.

And I need to tell you what the world lost when he decided that he couldn't do this anymore. But everybody has one of those stories. Especially in this world. Yeah. It's, and, and so when it comes to that anniversary effect, yeah, it might be common, but it's also so significant you know,in the same way that, we talk about the bear, you know, the bear attack and, um, you know, the, the pieces and parts of the experience that[00:08:00] our brain remembers.

So we can,stave off. Another attack in the future, right? Like we remember the beady little eyes and the smell and the texture of the hair when we bump up against it, as we're looking for choke cherries, I don't know. Um,but that's what an anniversary does, right? It's those painful memories that our bodies are still using like cavemen to, to stave off that sense of, Um, danger of a lack of safety, of danger.

Yeah. yeah. And God, it sucks. You know, I'd like to talk about it without, you know, breaking down every time. 

Erin: Yeah. And we know this as clinicians, like we know how, trauma likes to remind us, you know, put your hazard lights on, like, okay, we're coming and sometimes [00:09:00] it'll show up like maybe we experience a particular event and our brain will pull up some old event and be like, is it like this?

Does it look like this? But it'll be something much more horrific. And then we're experiencing that those depths of the event and it's such a different capacity and it's like, thanks brain. I see that you're trying to protect me, but you're not. Right. You're actually kind of making it worse.

Erin: Yeah, this isn't helping.

Cinnamon: literally just thought, like it's, it's that, that grandmother who's like, honey, maybe you, maybe you shouldn't have a second helping. Who's like trying to help, uh, you know, at the holidays. Who's Maybe you've had enough stuffing and you're like, the fuck I have, you know, and all she's trying to do is do a little favor about keeping your waistline slim.

Thanks, Graham. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off [00:10:00] your roll, but squirrel. 

Erin: No, but you're right. here's what I know to be true is that when we experience this kind of pain, when it's this personal, these are the times when we really do authentically feel like we're all alone. And It's not, no, it's not the thinking.

It's like we logically know that we're not. It feels so shitty that nothing anybody could say or do is going to help take it away. And so at that point we're like, I might as well just sit here and hold it to myself. Keep it to myself. 

Cinnamon: Yeah. 

Erin: and I think. In the midst of so much conversation about what are we missing?

What are we missing? Like I swear to God, and I said this on LinkedIn yesterday that I don't know if it's an algorithm thing or if it's synchronicity at its finest or what the hell, but so many [00:11:00] people have been posting about, okay. When are we going to like stop pussyfooting around?

Enough is enough. What are we missing? How are we going to join forces to change this conversation about people? Thinking this is the only way out. But I also want to add to that. I heard stacks intro on the things we all carry from his last episode. And he really touches on this concept of depression and what happens in your brain.

And the fact that you have to use that same brain to figure out how to get yourself out of it. And you're just stuck in this hole. but the way that he said it, and I really encourage people to go listen. To this, the things we all carry is the podcast, if you're not familiar with it, because the way that he described it was just so like, yeah, and I think that's what we forget.

When we can't understand why people [00:12:00] decide this for themselves, because, 

Cinnamon: yeah, it's like an addict's brain trying to get sober with the same brain that is compelled to drink and use. It's really hard. That's why you got to ask for help. You know, I, I helped,a teenager of a friend's daughter on an assignment.

about addiction. And, it was funny. The first question was like, how do you think adverse childhood experiences affect, uh, the likelihood of addiction later in life? And I'm likelike, you know, her mom's like, you need to call Cinnamon. And I'm like, do you know what I do? Likethat's a really odd question for me to be asked right off the bat.

And so, in having this conversation with her, I revisited the fact that when people ask me, "Well, what can we do to help first responders?" [00:13:00] My typical answer is to teach your boys what their emotions are, right? I mean, you got to go all the way back. You got to Get yourself healthy as a parent.

So the people that you're raising are healthy. You've got to make it okay for children to feel their feelings. You got to not say shit like, uh, you're fine. Or, you know, you're fine. I'll give you something to cry about. Like we've got to do so many things different because of what we're trying to do is push out, resources, which is Really, all we can do at this point, we have to acknowledge that we're late to the game, and you've still got the mindset of an adult who has learned their entire lives, be self sufficient, and don't ask for help, you know?

And, While, they still get to ask for help. [00:14:00] We can't discount the fact that we have hammered this idea of self sufficiency and independence and be a man and all this, you know, bullshit into the heads that we're asking the same people. And I'm not discounting the women that have taken their lives.

I'm just talking about,the majority of what we're looking at. and even for the women that are in the service, like they don't get a free pass either. they're probably more hardcore about it than the men are because they have twice as much to prove, but it starts so much sooner than even when we talk about the academy, just like when we started figuring out that cumulative stress started way earlier than when they got on the job.

It started all the way back when they were still living in their parents house. We're just, uh, I think that the more we do this work, the more we figure out different angles that we've got to come from. And I think about what the O'Barsky's said when we [00:15:00] interviewed with them and Chris, you know, was talking about his experience and Tara Obarski talking about the comment about her saying that she thought it was selfish and then recognizing like he couldn't do it anymore.

He did not see a way out. And it was, better to disappoint and be gone from the people that loved him this way than disappoint them for not being the man that they thought he was. Or what Brene Brown says when she quoted the guy that came to her talk, he said, My wife and daughter would rather see me, you know, die than fall off my white horse or however she said it.

 And he said, the women in my life are much harder on me. And the dads and the coaches and the coworker, you know, the boys and all that. And I was like, man, we need to pay attention to that too. 

Erin: Yeah.and some [00:16:00] of these things as children, they're not directly taught. Sometimes it's not like, hey, rub some dirt on it or you're fine.

Sometimes it's in the classroom. The actions of our parents or the inactions of our parents, and we say this all the time. We're not saying that people had bad parents, but it doesn't mean it doesn't affect us when we're four years old. It doesn't mean that we can comprehend, Oh, dad's just had a busy day at work, or mom's just stressed with my brothers and sisters.

We internalize all of that and decide things and create survival mechanisms and techniques in those moments. And we carry those into our adulthood. And, oh, you know, I, I had this, this moment again last night laying in bed and I was like, wait a minute, how do we change this? And we've jokingly talked about it, but we, we are changing it.

This is changing. And what I thought about was our [00:17:00] opportunity to sit at the kitchen table at a firehouse with a bunch of really awesome younger generation people. And there's nothing wrong with the older generation, but how much easier. They shared with us. It was just very easy for them. And yes, they trust us.

We have worked our butts off to build the rapport with them and they know that they can say things and it's, it's cool. But last night, what I thought was, Oh, wait, these, this, these are the guys that are going to become the chiefs. And these are the guys that are going to become, you know, holding the leadership positions.

Not necessarily them per se, but this group of folks. so as discouraged as I was feeling yesterday and I feel like we have built this tiny little army, in the past few days, which I haven't even talked to you about, but we'll talk about that later, of people that are feeling the same way we are, that are like, we, something's missing.

We get to shift directions. But also [00:18:00] in that same breath, it's like, but do we, because we're never going to get into the thick skulls of those who don't want this. But there's a lot of people that do want this. they want to be healthy. They want to have lives that are valuable and meaningful and connected.

So those who do want that are paying attention, and those who do want that are going to be our leaders. So it's that idea that we might be seeing all of these things happening and people still choosing to take their lives, and yet there's an opportunity for it to simmer down now. 

Cinnamon: Well, okay. So along those same lines, hear me out, right? Like when we think about how many first responders Historically have taken their lives [00:19:00] before we were ever talking about this stuff that just, you know, slid right under the radar. And then we start talking about it. And when you're on the inside, you realize how many, uh, uh, obituaries are not necessarily accurate or how that story gets buried.

I have to wonderis part of what we don't know is that there has been a drastic drop in suicides among first responders. It's just people 

Erin: are actually sharing it now and they weren't before. I thought that last night, I said that to Rob last night, yeah, here's the thing. I don't know that it's actually significantly.

changed for the worse. I just think people are not masking it to be some kind of other fatality. and people are reporting it now and it looks different and it's in our face and people are, there's the, all the awareness [00:20:00] crap. And so, yes, sorry I didn't mean to hijack that from you, but I'm like, yes. No, no, I 

Cinnamon: mean, that's what I wanted you to do. That we, we are comparing Notes without the whole notebook. You know what I mean? Like, like there's so much that we didn't know that part of the downfall of knowing and hearing about this is actually the upside of now we're talking about it. Where before it was, Hey, did you hear? Yeah, it must've been a cardiac thing.

I don't know. He was so young. Right. Or, you know, he, I wouldn't have been surprised if he just drank himself to death, and I'm like, oh yeah, but that makes it sound like it wasn't on purpose, right? So the fact that we're hearing about this, maybe it's not this uptick, because we do know clinically. That suicide can be contagious, right? 

Erin: but. [00:21:00] And can we define, I know exactly what you mean, but I want to be very clear in what you're meaning when you say suicide can be contagious. 

Cinnamon: Yeah, I think we can look at our culture and when you, you introduce an idea into a group as an option. it doesn't seem as taboo, right?

So I would even probably point more to children than first responders in this area. Like, I don't know what the statistics were for childhood suicide, 50 years ago, but I do know just like school shootings, taking. Uh, a brain that's not fully developed, who doesn't understand permanency. And, all of a sudden, like I know this kid that did it and I know that this kid that did it and look at all the hoopla [00:22:00] that that kid got after, you know, it was over.

And so now this option is, available to me and I'm aware of it. And I think, well, so and so did it. And,and now maybe I can too. So it's not like a virus in terms of, you know, like the contagion. but it's more of like, when we hear about things, when we introduce things into subgroups that maybe had been a foreign concept, you're going to see it multiply out because it gets normalized.

Erin: Yeah. I want to, circle back around to the anniversary effect real quick and just basically say that there may be days that you feel off and look at the calendar and have those aha moments like Cinnamon did. And [00:23:00] I am one of those believers that grief is not one of those things that's ever finalized, you know, um,and that we get to honor our people and we also get to honor ourselves and we get to honor the grief that we're experiencing. 

and not look at it as a bad thing, but just be gentle with ourselves because. It's gonna happen and I watch this with my husband every year the anniversary of his mom's passing I see this in myself every year the anniversary of my boyfriend taking his life. Like I See this every year With my mom's anniversary of her passing Some years it feels bigger And I think that's depending on where my, my own spiritual fitness is and also where my like, [00:24:00] uh, awarenesses are.

and like, you know, what's going on around me, but nonetheless, it's evident. I do know that a lot of beautiful things have happened in the last 12 months.and we can't deny that. But I also know that still today, it feels pretty crappyand I think letting go of the idea that it wouldn't feel crappy is probably my best friend right now because of course it would. And that's okay.

Cinnamon: Yeah. so this morningwe got a text from one of our friends who knew what today was and that was my God, that was really nice to have your grief acknowledged by someone else who wasn't a part of it, right? [00:25:00] Who, I don't even know if we knew him when all of this went down. 

Erin: We didn't. 

Cinnamon: We didn't. 

Erin: No, we were still at Jason Warn. Right. 

Cinnamon: So to have somebody say, Hey ladies, I know today is going to be hard and I'll be thinking about you. Like that meant the world to me. so reach out to your people and let them know. And also I had another friend text me and asked me about how a meeting went last night. And I said, you know, today is the anniversary of me falling off your pedestal. And, uh, it's a joke, but it also one of my firefighting friends was with me when I found out when I got the news and he had really only seen me as a clinician. And so for him to be there with me and to [00:26:00] watch me drop to my knees and to hear me howl, um, He had his own reckoning of these clinician folks, they're human too, and they're affected by us. And they care about us in ways that we probably can't comprehend. I mean, we had to have a debriefing after that.butI say that to say for those of you who, don't know Erin and I personally or have a therapist that you're not too sure about whether or not they would care if you took their lives.

Trust and believe we fucking care. Um, yeah. Like this is our own personal heartbreak too. Like we, we have other people that, we still, Get to take care of and get to work with, but don't think for a second that we [00:27:00] are above this and that it doesn't affect us. because that breaks our hearts and we miss you and we miss what you could have contributed to the world.

And so, We just asked that, man, just like stay one more day, just make one phone call. Yeah. 

Erin: So, I don't know. This is one of those things where, we said we weren't going to do any recording or posting or whatever, take a break. Butthis is one of those things that felt, one, part of our process.

And two, hopefully it can support you in being part of your process too.two And if 

Cinnamon: you're still having a hard time. After the passing of one of your friends and the frustration that [00:28:00] you felt that they didn't reach out to you or they knew you were available, you, they know that you are interested in this stuff.

You know that, that you would have been an advocate and you're just at a loss, know that we get it. And it's not about what you're doing or what you're not doing. It's not about what you could have done more. It's the only person that can prevent suicide is the person that's deciding whether or not to take their life.

Erin: and it all happens in a split second decision and thought, you know, I mean, not that people don't plan it out, but it's like in that moment. So we genuinely love you guys and gals like yeah, I mean, there's just no way to explain it. And we are gonna fight with you and stand beside you as long as [00:29:00] you are willing to do that for yourself and able to do that for yourself. We're here and there's a lot of us.and for anyone listening, if you are a first responder clinician, if you specialize in this line of work or working with veterans, I'm going to start collecting your information to get our resource page as beefed up as humanly possible for each state, because we can get on our insurance page and find a provider, but we really want to create that army of folks that actually get it.

And so keep your eye out for that. and I'm sure it exists. I haven't been able to find it.

Cinnamon: So. Worst case scenario, we're reinventing the wheel. 

Erin: Yeah. I'm like, let me be the one! Okay. 

Cinnamon: Thanks for coming here and hanging out with me, [00:30:00] Erin.I will say to you, because people have heard how I just kind of like grabbed you by the hair like a caveman and dragged you into this with me a few years ago. but I honestly can't even imagine how this year would have gone if I didn't have you by my side doing this.

To have at least one other person that felt the same way. It like I felt it and I'm really grateful for you. 

Erin: I'm really grateful for you. Thank you for the gift of this world and life. Okay.