Strings Attached: Investigating the Web and Illusion of Control

EP37: Strings Attached

Teaser
Intro

Erin: Today is one of those opportunities to relinquish control, isn't it?

Cinnamon: Yeah,  I was just gonna say, One of the things that we've talked about since we started doing this was, Because of the way our lifestyles are, personally, as well as the work that we do, it was always a good idea to have, a couple episodes up our sleeve.

And this would be the week to have an episode up our sleeve. And you have done an incredible job, on the fly kind of

Erin: Pulling it out of my ass. In a beautiful way! Yeah.

Cinnamon: in a divine, in a divine spiritual way that met our needs and spoke into where we were, as well as our larger community in a lot of ways, every day and also on special days.

Erin: Well, and that's the thing with this whole episode is, for the first time in seven months, I was willing to say, what if we didn't have an episode this week, because not a whole lot has gone, quote unquote, according to plan over the past couple of weeks for us. And in that moment, I realized how much I just surrendered, like, what's the worst thing that can happen? Just about nothing. I could think of a lot of things, but they're not real. They're not true. 

Cinnamon: And nobody's gonna hate us or quit listening to us if

Erin: have a human moment,

Cinnamon: had to, right like if we became human.

Erin: right. And that is when this idea popped in my head. About control, I know specifically for us, this week has really put both of us in a position that we've questioned how much control we actually have with the things that go on around us.

Cinnamon: Or how much Letting go and trusting the process we're actually doing Because I would say that's more where I was coming from you know that I Let go and I wasn't controlling And then I found out I was you know So I think it's on both sides of that coin the people who think that they have relinquished control and trusted something greater themselves have had a lesson and the people who thought they had controluh, had a lesson.

Erin: Yeah. And without going into too much detail, this past month has been full of Tragedy and loss and watching people that we care about deeply no longer be on this earth. And that's been a super hard pill to swallow. Each experience had its own deep, I don't know even what I'm looking for. Each experience had its own unique experience within it for whatever reason, based on who the individual was. But either way, no matter what it's been hard.

Cinnamon: Yes. I actually went and got a massage last Monday and as I was laying on the table, flashed back to one of the last few times I was there and I remember crying and the tears were going through the face hole and hitting the floor and As I was laying there, I thought, what the hell was I crying about? I have no recollection of, you know, kind of, I feel like it's been a few weeks of, hold my beer, 

Erin: Yes. 

Cinnamon: right? Like, when we thought it was bad, if we thought things were tough. The universe was like, here, hold my beer, and see how tough it can get.

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: And  it all just feels like a little bit of a blur. Yeah, memo, are you there? God, it's me, Margaret. Enough of this shit.

Erin: Yeah, we, see that we, can handle it and we don't want to. And that's the tricky part about life 

Cinnamon: Yeah. Thanks!

Erin: is that old saying like, God won't give you any more than you can handle. It's like, okay, I'm clear on what I can handle now and we're still moving and we're still going and doesn't make it any less difficult, challenging, heartbreaking. I will say, in the midst of all of this, I had the opportunity to experience a three day intensive training all around relationships with my husband. And in fact, we kind of oversaw it. By oversaw it, they call us captains. But basically what we do is we organize the whole thing, we bring in any staff that's going to help, we invite people to come.

We hold the space. We make sure everything's organized and things go off the way they go so that the trainer can create magic, quite frankly, within the room. And when I went into this training, I was actually a little apprehensive because mentally I was really feeling some deep feelings and because, oh man, 

Cinnamon: You're probably emotionally cash, too. Like, and physically.

Erin: Yes! And, this relationships training isn't about just intimate relationships, it's about relationships as a whole. So it invited us to really look at past relationships and family and parents and exes and all these things and loss was a big part of it. Who have we lost that we feel like there is still opportunity for closure or connection or whatever that is for each individual. On Friday night, the first night, I remember leaving and we were debriefing with our staff and I was so full of rage. I mean, I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever experienced this level of rage. And all I could say to the trainer, When she's like, so, you know, we're going around like, what,what are you taking away from tonight?

Like, what did you create? What are you noticing? And everybody's like, connection, like, and it got to me and I was like, I am so fucking angry right now. I was like, I don't even know. I was like,I don't even know what to do with this. I mean, and I was tense. and she was like, good. And I'm like, I'm so tired of being up against this wall where I'm so close to some kind of breakthrough or awareness and I just keep smacking into it.

And she's like, you know, there's an opportunity tonight to just do nothing but. Release that anger, like explore it, figure it out. And she was like, you don't have to know what it is to work through it. And I'm like, and me being controlling, I'm like, yeah, that's bullshit. 

Cinnamon: Yeah, I do. 

Erin: Yes I do. How am I supposed to work through something when I dunno what it is? She's like, could be a collection of many, many, many, things, but that's all I could remember was experiencing rage. And then that night I had this like binging light bulb moment and I'm like, oh, I know what it is. It is the fact, one, that I always think I need to know what it is, and that I need to be in control at every waking moment of my life because of whatever belief I have about, you know, shit's going to fall off the map or, you know, it's not going to be done right or maybe it's even FOMO, you in some capacity. And when I said, Oh my gosh, the control is in the surrender, it's actually, it's like I get to...

Cinnamon: I hear you say that. I've heard that so many times from you and it's like every time you're in a situation and it's not a one time lesson, it's a situational lesson. Like not, oh, why can't I learn this lesson? It's here's a thing that I don't know what to do with and I have to realize that that lesson isis the one I apply to this situation. 

Erin: and it's every time. I mean, I did a three hour workshop on it, for people but there was a difference this time and the awareness of it, it was, more than awareness. It was like integration. And that's the irony behind it is that surrender isn't doing anything. It's actually letting go of everything. It's being in the flow.

Cinnamon: Which feels so scary.

Erin: Yeah, but you know what? It didn't this time.

Cinnamon: What's on the other side, Erin?

Erin: It didn't feel scary this time. It felt like I could breathe. And that's the word I've been using a lot lately is like, I just feel smothered in so many areas of my life. Like, just like I cannot breathe. And after I had that moment, I was like, I could breathe.

And I've been experiencing joy, like real joy. I've been experiencing this. of it's okay. Like I can take care of myself without being fearful of letting people down. I can do what's best for myself and my family. I can still be present in a different capacity for my clients. And that was the other thing is we talked a lot about masculine and feminine energy.

And my story has been, well, I operate in heavy masculine because I work with a highly dominant masculine. sometimes even unhealthy masculine energy with our work and then all of a sudden I was like, wait a minute. That's actually Bullshit, that's not true at all because the truth is

Cinnamon: That's what we're trying to take them out 

Erin: Right, and if I can zoom out and look at how I work with folks It's like I might have to come in kind of like I got balls that kind of energy at the beginning So 

Cinnamon: Yeah, like day one and two and then you flip to your maternal side. 

Erin: Yeah, that nurturing, holding space, it's gonna be okay, feminine safe space, and oh my gosh, that, oh, I just felt like I got let off the hook. It felt so good.

Cinnamon: Unfortunately, not yet, but I'm,right behind. I'm coming. I'm gonna catch up. 

Erin: and mean, I, of course I 

 Cinnamon: You you, You had a thing, yeah, like that, acted as the catalyst to, and as much as you weren't sure that that was where you needed to be, and you definitely questioned, like, should I back out at the last minute? When I spoke to you on, I don't know, Monday, Tuesday nightum, it was very clear, that you were very clear that as difficult as you thought it was going to be, it ended up being exactly what you needed.

And I think that's what I meant earlier when I said like, letting go or surrendering, especially when we have military, folks or a paramilitary environment, like how do we not sugarcoat it and we call it what it is, which is surrender, and still get folks like that to buy in, like our friend Gabe, he doesn't use the word Retreat.

Do you remember this? Gabe doesn't use the word retreat when he tells a story. He said something like, we push forward to the back or something, some twist on it. Like there's that, like never say die kind of thing, you know, like we'll never retreat, but we will be wise enough to know when to turn around and head back the way we came.

Erin: Yeah, like when it's time to stand down. 

Cinnamon: Yeah. 

Erin: It's interesting that, and this is human nature, to want to control. And it's so based out of fear. Gosh, it really is. There, what is on the other side of this? That's, it makes me very vulnerable. 

Cinnamon: so part of my recovery, our recovery, all of our recovery has been that component of spirituality, of leaning into this higher power. And there have definitely been days,in the last 13 where. I've noticed, oh, what's my spiritual connection look like? Like, am I spiritually fit? Like, what, what am I slacking at?

And what I found was when push comes to shove, my spiritual fitness is on point. Like, that is the most profound thing that has really helped me get through. These last few weeks other than constantly trying to tell the therapist and me to be quiet and that's probably more gentle than what I'm actually saying to her but it really has made such a difference to Have that spiritual connection to something greater than myself because I think the biggest lesson I've learned and you and I have talked about this is if we can find Blame or fault, or responsibility, as yucky as that feels, it still feels better than how terrifying it is to realize you have none.

No control. No responsibility. Like, if there's nothing that you did wrong and bad shit still happens, that's terrifying.

Erin: Yes.

Cinnamon: And I've been sitting a lot in that, and working from terrifying to comforting.

Cinnamon: And that is through that process of surrender. And what do I say? Just because it's not our plan doesn't mean that it's not the plan. And just because we don't like the plan doesn't mean it's not how it all is supposed to happen. It just simply means we don't like it.

Erin: Yeah. Oh, that makes me think of my husband's song. That he talks about that. You could say it's such a shame or you could say it couldn't go any other way. You know?

 Cinnamon: Any Other way, that's it. I was like, the only way? 

Erin: I can put it on here because I won't get dinged for copyright. Um, 

Cinnamon: yeah, I mean, you could, but that would be a whole different conversation if he tried to sue us. 

Erin: Ha ha, would be like, yes, please put that on there.

Cinnamon:  Put that on there.

Erin: so that's kind of what allowed me to be in this space to receive. it sounds so woo woo, but to like receive this data as to what today's episode would be about. Because when I got out of my own way, when I let go of the fear of letting listeners down, letting you down, letting whoever down, like what about our clients that use this as a resource in between sessions?

I was like, Oh no, there's a lot of people out there in this world that have their own experiences with control with either. holding on so tight that it blows everything up, or having the ability to realize that they don't have control of a lot of things outside of their hula hoop. And so I decided to reach out To the universe to the interwebs and kind of put out a request on various channels on Facebook and the post said, Hey, control, what's your take on it?

And do we actually control the things in our lives? And who would be interested in having a conversation with me? About this. And so oddly enough, I was actually so beautifully surprised that I had a lot of people reach out and they're like, yeah, I'll talk to you about this. And that was super cool. I had to pick. 

Cinnamon: yeah, I saw it say like not only will I talk about this But I will make myself available to talk about this regardless of what time it is That you are available to talk. I mean these people were they wanted to share their experiences and I think part of that comes from the value that people have already seen in our work, in our podcast.

And also it speaks to the importance of those lessons for each individual person. You know, like how often do we get asked, would you like to share one of the hardest lessons that you've got on the other side of? 

Because I think this is it. Like, this is the, question 

I read something this morning, how is it that so many of us.

We are still doing the work, eat, sleep, entertain cycle in our lives. And we haven't taken the time to think about the bigger picture of why we're even here. You know, we just get into, and I may date myself with this, but time to make the donuts. You know, that, old guy that showed up every morning at Dunkin Donuts and he just had this monotonous life. 

Erin: I'm only laughing because Rob left to go to a gig this morning and he was like, all right, got to go make the donuts.

Cinnamon: see, okay, yeah, that's it, right, is that we get so distracted by so many things that we forget that we are spiritual beings having this human experience and, Brittany Murphy, God rest her soul, she said this thing in an interview once where she was like, whenever I have hard emotions, I just like to think that I Was in some spiritual realm and I was approached with the opportunity to come to earth and take on a human form and Have human experiences and that meant that I was going to be able to access this huge range of emotion and some of it will be phenomenal and some of it will be so ridiculously painful and I had the opportunity to take advantage of that.

And so whenever I have painful feelings I just remember what a luxury it is to be able to be here and be present and feel that degree of pain. And, like you, I was raging and I have said, I don't think I've ever experienced a level of anger quite like that. And I didn't know where it came from. Well, I didn't know I had that kind of anger in me.

and you were talking about in the training, your trainer was saying, okay, so sit with it and, and, just let it be. And if something comes to you out of it, great. But to me, anger is such an aggressive, forward motion, right? Like there's no softness in it. There's no sinking into it. There's no vulnerability in it.

It's a very aggressive attacking emotion. Whereas like sadness might be. more gentle and soft and an opportunity for reflection. But when you're too busy marching forward towards the enemy, it's hard to, find that. And so that's been an interesting process to figure out how to look at my anger, how to be gentle with myself when I'm having it, and how to find some vulnerability in that anger.

So I can peel it back because I've said before, anger feels really shitty. I don't like how anger feels in my body, but man, I didn't want to let it go of it this week. 

It was like a baby and I didn't want anybody to take, 

Erin: Yeah. Because then what does that mean? That you don't care? That, 

Cinnamon: Yes, that was exactly what it is. It was like, if I get to a place where I'm not just overwhelmed with anger and grief, then what does it look like to someone watching me? From a different realm. And that was my biggest thing. I didn't want anybody to quote, look down on me from the skies, and not think that I wasn't devastated by this.

I didn't want to laugh. I didn't want to have fun. I didn't want to forget. It was like I needed to have a hold of that to make sure that it was apparent and it was no human witnesses that I was worried about. Our brains are so maddening. 

Erin: Being human, is not for the weak.

Cinnamon: No, 

Erin: So, I will say that I did end up talking to various people and I ended up narrowing it down to four different people that I spoke to. And for our listener, I want you to know that this is going to be a little bit different of quality because I did use some software. It was a recording of a phone call.

So please be patient with the quality of audio because there's so many really neat nuggets and each phone call that I had with these people. And. ironically all in some kind of giving position in their life as far as career goes. One is in cyber security which protects us in a different kind of way.

And she is tough as nails, and I've also seen so much softness which she had kind of the same revelations I've had as of late. one is a clinician helping people heal from. Injury more in like the physical therapy kind of realm. One is both retired firefighter and cop.

he did both who has struggled with addiction and other concerns in life. being raised in a strict Baptist home with a father who controlled everything. And then the final one is. A man that I love so much. to me, he's like this guru. but he's a retired assistant chief who was standing chief for fire department for a while. And his take is like, so powerful. The one thing that he said that really stood out to me was, control is the problem. Like control is the thing. It's the problem. And I was just like, Oh, I love you. So please take the time to listen to each call that we have on this show today. because there's such beautiful nuggets from each one.

And I hate to say it, but I'm so excited to say it. I hate to say it because you probably don't want to hear it listener, but I'm excited to say it because it confirms that we, I think have the opportunity to surrender. And that is each one kind of came to the concept and idea that we really don't have control over anything outside of ourself and our reactions. That's it.

Cinnamon: Well, and don't you think that this is, I see it both as ironic and serendipitous and whatever else, but our time with Ed, you know, I had somebody in a session listen to the little reel that we had with Ed about the control. and when you can control something for five minutes, it makes you think that you can control everything.

And so it's almost divine timing that Ed's episode was what it was, and then now we're talking about this. 

Erin: Happens every time, girl. Happens every time.

Cinnamon: and How many times, Erin, do you think that you have said in a session, Something along the lines of like, trust the process or when you've trusted the process can you look at the evidence of how things have turned out for you, 

Erin: Mm hmm.

Cinnamon: and this is one of those things where that's hard to go there right now. and I think that's what time and distance does. 

Erin: we're going to go ahead and, and turn it over to the. Recordings now, the, yeah, our guests, our guests. And, you know, I did make an agreement that I would not really say who they were. And none of them said I couldn't, but I just feel like that's not necessary.

You'll get enough about them just by listening. So this is going to be a longer episode probably, but be patient. There's something for everybody on this episode. So we hope you find value in it.

Cinnamon: and I would definitely just want to say thank you, Erin from both me, who wasn't functioning, as well as our audience, who has come forward to Wednesday mornings at 4 a. m., when this drops. And I appreciate that you had this pop of creativity. Which is not unlike you, you're full of creativity, but that you found a way to move us from breakdown and potentially skipping a week so we could just be fully human to perhaps giving us exactly what we needed this week.And

Erin: Oh 

Cinnamon: this was a little bit tricky, I'm not part of these conversations, I'm not part of these recordings. So I am just as excited as our listeners are. To hear what magic you made with all of these people 

Erin: yeah. And now we've got new technology and you're welcome. And thank you for surrendering to the process and trusting the process for this one. 

Cinnamon: So Going back to that question of Why are so many of us caught in that cycle of you know Sleep, work, eat, entertain, sleep, work, eat, entertain and not being reflective on their experience as Human, I think you just showed us how to do that How to have a human experience and be able to reflect on it and create some meaning that validates why we're here beyond eat, work, and sleep.

Erin: Hmm. a lot in there. There's a lot in there. Aw. Yeah.

Cinnamon: eating, working, and sleeping, the only reason we're doing it is to figure this shit out. It's a decoy, 

Erin: Yeah, we gotta have tools. We gotta have ways to actually practice all this stuff. And so yeah, the decoy is that. Oh boy, it's getting deep on here.

Cinnamon: I know.

Music Break

Caller #1:

Caller #2:  Can you hear me?

Erin: I can hear you. Can you hear me?

Caller #2: Yes, I can. 

Erin: But the topic that I've been really interested in lately is this idea of control and, you know, what does it mean to other folks and do.

Do other folks really feel like we have control in our lives and so I appreciate you're one of the first, first responders I've spoken to about this. So I'll be curious to see what your take is on the whole thing.  It's very interesting. When you posed it as a question, I started to think about it and I was like, oh, damn,  here we go.

So what, when you read the question, what came up for you? You know, control to me was the first 17 years of my life.  My father was a Baptist preacher. Control was very dominant from him and my mother. And control was, you're going to do this. You're not going to do anything else. You're going to do this.

You're going to be at church on Sunday, Sunday night. You're going to be there Wednesday. And then you're going to be there next Sunday.  So I didn't really break control from him and her until I was 18.   And, um, 1981 came around.  About six months till I graduated and I thought, you know what, I'll fix the B 18. I want to do what I want to do. And I went down to the Chevrolet dealership, found a brand new 1981 Z 28, said, I want it.  And they're like, well, you got to get your dad's sign.

I said, no, I don't. They're like, yeah, you do. And it was about three weeks before my 18th birthday. I said, all right, I'll be back. And I talked to him about it and he said, You don't need to do that. You need to just go to college, spend your money on that. I was like, that's not what I want to do.  I want to be in control of what I want to do. 

And so I waited that 3 weeks and after I turn 18, the next day I went down there. The sticker price on the car was 12, 200. I paid him 11, 500 in cash, drove it off the showroom floor.  I was in control at that point in my life. Yeah, it was almost like a rebellion to the control that happened. It was utterly rebellious. 

I drove it up into the driveway. He looked at it. He said, you have messed up. I said, no, I haven't.  Well, you know, yes or no. My control at that time was that you have had control over me for that many years. Now I have control over my life. You can't touch me. I'm an adult, according to law.  And fast forward 40 whatever years,  my control over my life escalated after that point.

And I thought, well, nobody can stop me.  And there was one person that could stop me. That was God.  And he did stop me several times, but I didn't recognize it and so I just kept on going and I started my career as a fireman  as a fireman. You really don't have control over people. I mean, you, you don't tell people to do what you want them to do as a fireman  and then I left there after 10 years and became a cop.

And as a cop, they tell you, yes, you have control  over people, you're taking away their rights.  Once you tell them to stop doing what they're doing, show you their hands, you took away their control. They no longer have control over what they do.  Well, they do, but there'll be consequences. Exactly.  So unless they want to face the consequences of not listening, they will put their hands up, right?

Right. And there are those who did, thank God, more than didn't,  but I guess as the cop, the whole atmosphere is, by God, I'm the law.  I'm Johnny Law. I'm telling you what to do.  I am in control of this entire situation. It's not true. I mean, you're not totally in control.  And so, I had a hard time with that.  I had a hard time with being put in charge of task force that I was in control of, and that would be 10 to 20 officers at one time. 

I was ultimately responsible for what they did. So I was in control for what they did  and  it took a while for me to realize that.  I'm not totally in control of this. These people are going to do what they want to do. They're going to start their own control. And it didn't help that I was  self medicating with alcohol.

And that kind of led up to where I was at when after my, I had my shooting in 2014  and I got shot. And, um, everything went downhill from there. And I realized I was not in control of anything. I was like,  I cannot control this.  I mean, I got gangbangers looking after me,  looking after my family, wanting to know where my wife works, wanting to know where my children go to school, and I couldn't control that. 

So I just realized  alcohol was not allowing me to control this, and  I pulled away from it, and I have not been totally faithful to it. I mean, I've fallen several times. I know a lot of people have,  but for me personally,  When I have several months of sobriety and I fall, then it takes several months for me to discover, why did I fall?

What happened? And I can isolate it,  and that's controlling me. I'm controlling the fact that I realize I fell. Why did I fall?  I've done well for a while,  and I say a while, it's six months plus,  but even though you have sobriety and you think you're in control,  Anything can push you over the edge.  There are so many things.

I mean, just like yesterday, my nephew, he fell at work, had a brain bleed, and now he can't drive for six months, and  we're looking at all kinds of things, and  Me and him were really close. We hunted, we shot together, we went to the range, and I just can't imagine my nephew in this situation. And so  being in control goes back to my faith.

And my faith started in January of 2022 when I went to John 316 Ministries in Arkansas. It's a spiritual boot camp for men with addictions and that showed me how to deal with this.  And once I got that message from his dad yesterday,  try to hold it together,  I knew that he  will be okay. Because I'm not going to fall. 

I'm in control. Of the fact that the drinking leads to worse repercussions in my life. It always has, it always will.  That's why I'm sitting here as a retired police officer with three DWIs as a felon.  I have come back to my faith with God  and told him, Look, you didn't do this to him on purpose. This is a reason.

There's something going on. I know that. And I accept that. And I pray about it. And so. Maybe I don't know. Well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to hear about your loved one. And and that right there is one of the most powerless things. Yeah, no, not someone you care about has been injured and there's nothing you can do about it.

And so I think and what I'm hearing and what you're saying, it sounds like. You've kind of gotten to a point where you're clear that, and please, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you've gotten to a point where you realize, like, I am in control, but only in how I handle things, not in what happens around me.

Would you say that's accurate?  That is true. I am in control of what's in front of me. I can't be in control of what's around me. It breaks my heart. So Yeah. I just have to be in control of my emotions and I trust in God to take care of this. And so that's a control issue is trusting him and having faith that he will take care of him  and he'll take him where he will.

And I'll be okay with it.  Yeah.  So what I'm hearing you say is that you have trust to me, that sounds more like surrender than anything. That sounds like the complete opposite of control. It sounds like you are trusting that your higher power. Which is God will take care of your nephew, and there's nothing within your human power that you can do in this moment. 

Yeah, there's nothing I can do. I give it up to him.  My control is gone. I mean, when I grew up, I thought I was a pro. Doing what I wanted to do,  and all this kind of stuff, and then as I grow older, and especially after my job, Being a cop, I realized, you know, I'm not in control of anything. I mean, it could have been well,  I could have been dead.

So  it's out of my control and so control.  I give it to the Lord, and that's just where I'm at.  Well, I really appreciate your time and you sharing  your experience with this. That means a lot, and I'm sure our listeners will relate to your experiences and feeling like, as a police officer, that you have all this control, until you realize, uh oh, maybe I don't all the time.

Yeah. So, and, and that you have learned that. Turning it over and and putting your control and prayers and letting God handle things for you. I mean, that to me feels like quite the opposite. So, I really appreciate your point of view and yeah, I look forward to talking to you more soon. Yeah, you're welcome.

Thank you for it. I appreciate it. Of course, my pleasure. I'll talk to you soon. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. Bye.