Tactical Financial Moves: With Ryan Mink

EP85: Tactical Financial Moves


00:00:00 Cinnamon: It's the first responder, the first to get the call, the first on scene, greeted by God knows what, pushed beyond the limits that they don't even set. Then what happens? You're listening to After the Tones Drop. We're your hosts. I'm Cinnamon, a first responder trauma therapist. 



00:00:26 Erin: And I'm Erin. I'm a first responder integration coach. 



00:00:31 Cinnamon: Our show brings you stories from real first responders, the tools they've learned, the changes they've made, and the lives they now get to live.



00:00:48 Erin: Welcome back to After the Tones Drop, the podcast where we explore the mental health challenges faced by our first responder community and how we can support one another through all of it. Today, we've got a guest whose journey from military service to law enforcement and now financial planning has given him a powerful perspective on total wellbeing. Our guest, Ryan Mink, born and raised in Ohio, joined the army right after high school serving as an infantryman with the 10th Mountain Division. He then deployed to Afghanistan for 16 months in 2006 with a unit whose experience was documented in the book, The Outpost. 



00:01:32 Erin: After the military, he began his law enforcement career with the Springfield Police Division, where he served for over eight years, taking on roles from SWAT officer to financial crimes detective. In 2016, however, he made a career shift, believe it or not, to financial planning, working with Three Oaks Capital to help Ohio's first responders plan for a secure future. His focus now is on guiding them through financial wellness to encourage first responders to take charge of their finances as part of their overall wellbeing. He's also active in the first responder community where he volunteers with Honor Flight and supporting organizations like the FOP and Ohio Association of Chiefs of Police. 



00:02:20 Erin: Today, we're getting into Ryan's unique story, his passion for educating first responders on financial health, and why he believes that total wellbeing, financial, mental, and physical, is key for first responders. But before we jump in, don't forget, subscribe and share this episode, please, with anybody you think could find value in it. And in addition, check out our Copper Warrior program for those that are ready to reclaim their mental health. Get more information at copperwarrior.com. All right, let's get started. 



00:02:57 Erin: Hello, sir. It's so great to actually meet you quote in quotes in person. I know you and I have been talking back and forth for like a year, I think on LinkedIn. 



00:03:06 Ryan: Yeah, sounds about right. 



00:03:08 Erin: Yeah. So one, I wanna say thank you from the bottom of my heart for the people that we have sent to you and you've been able to direct to where they needed to go. And I'm not even 100% sure that you're the right person, but I was always like, Ryan will probably be able to point you to the right person if it's not him, better than I could when it comes to anything financial for sure. So- 



00:03:32 Ryan: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. 



00:03:35 Cinnamon: Yeah, can you typically direct them? I don't wanna just assume. 



00:03:39 Ryan: Oh yeah, I mean, that's our bread and butter, right? So first responders for me, of course, I was a first responder, understand their pension, understands a lot of the financial stresses that they have being down that road before. So I can relate at many different ways and at the same time make their life a little bit more easier when making all these really tough decisions that they're really not getting any guidance. 



00:04:07 Cinnamon: Yeah, I think that's a common thing. I can think of at least like three clients right off the top of my head that they don't know the answers, they just assume whatever the answer is. It's really bad. And so they panic before they have any information that could actually make their life easier. 



00:04:26 Ryan: Yeah. And some of it's the water cooler talk, right? It's like, well, so and so said this and so and so said that. You get that a lot. And some of it's right and some of it isn't. And then everybody has a unique situation as with many different things in life. And not everything applies to everybody. So everybody's situation is going to be a little bit different. And depending on what the situation is, maybe one recommendation is completely different than the person that they're riding in the car with on midnight shift. Can be completely different. So, yeah. 



00:04:57 Cinnamon: And of course, they don't know what they don't know. They don't know they're doing themselves a harm in escalating anxiety that doesn't even need to exist. But I love that you have the experience of being in the car and hearing how these conversations go both in there, the water cooler and at the kitchen table and whatever. So you can appeal to that. You're not coming in and saying, how did you get this idea? Why did you make this so hard on yourself? I would assume. Let me ask you, when you do get somebody in front of you that's a first responder, who's looking at how do I retire in two, five, 10, 20 years, like whatever that is, do you have to do a lot of myth busting or damage control. 



00:05:43 Ryan: Yeah, yeah, I do. I mean, I feel like though a lot of times, you know, as you can expect with the, those types of people, people like myself, we're really reserved when it comes to really speaking first, maybe. So it's really just talking to them initially saying, tell me what you know about your pension, tell me what you know about your tax strategy. How do you think about retirement for you? How do you pay off your debt sooner before retirement? I ask them the questions and see what they're thinking. See if the wheels are turning, what they're thinking about. That way I can guide them from there because I think a lot of times that, especially in my industry and other industries as well, they do a lot of talking but not a lot of listening. 



00:06:29 Ryan: And I think a lot of time, if we sit there long enough and you just let them talk, we'll begin to hear some things that we can work on. So yeah, I think that's part of it for sure.





00:06:39 Cinnamon: So if I'm already feeling broke, and now somebody says, hey, why don't you go spend money to hang out with this guy to talk about how broke you are, aren't. How do you address that question, right? Like I can imagine if somebody's trying to figure out how do I get all this debt paid off before I retire, knowing I'm gonna be in a fixed income, and now you want me to defer money from that debt payment over to spend money on a financial planner. 



00:07:08 Ryan: Yeah.



00:07:08 Cinnamon: What is the value in that? 



00:07:10 Ryan: Yes. A great question. A couple of components to that. One of the first things I think about is what is their problem? Whatever it is, you mentioned debt. So let's say it's that, okay. Do I know the solutions to that? Sure. I do. How involved did they want to be with the financial planner? So are they looking for more of a long-term relationship? Are they a one and done? When I came to three creeks, one of my goals was to not only work with people nearing retirement or in retirement was to have the opportunity to influence the way the younger police officers and firefighters think about their money when they're first starting out. 



00:07:48 Ryan: And in order to capture some of that, and for me to get value out of it as well, is I started a subscription model. So just like your Netflix bill, you're paying us a monthly payment. I thought that was very important because a lot of people, their money is tied up into deferred comp or other outside assets that they can't tap into so they don't have the cashflow all the time to do, or they don't have the asset level a lot of times to work with the planner in that capacity. 



00:08:17 Ryan: But usually from a monthly income perspective, they can make things work, right? We don't have to have the five or $600 truck payment. You know what I mean? Like we start thinking about it like that more and kind of shift their mindset there. So that's one of the ways. Also, another thing that I like to do is I feel like it might own rings. And if I talk to somebody, regardless, if they become a client or not, if they talk with me, the one thing I want them to lead with is some sort of value. 



00:08:47 Ryan: So, Hey, we may not be a good fit right now, but maybe there's something of value that I can provide to you today. And you can kind of go off and do it on your own. So I do that a lot for people, right? It's like, well, what do you think about this? Or I have this going on or a buddy will text me to say, well, I just got a call yesterday, my buddy's a Ohio police in fire. He's thinking about going to work for the county his last five years. What's the difference between Ohio police and fire and OH purrs. And he's looking to increase his final average salary those last five years. So it's all these questions, right? 



00:09:22 Ryan: And for me, it's a quick and easy answer. Thankfully, I don't get a ton of those or else I'd be doing that all the time. But if I can help out somebody and point them in the right direction, then eventually there'll be a con. 



00:09:33 Erin: First of all, this is a really, really helpful information. I know people are going to appreciate having someone that can understand this financial side of things because, as you know, and we definitely know as mental health professionals, the common conversation is money. And when it comes to finances, not a whole lot creates more stress and anxiety in a person's life in their financial situation. And sometimes it even prevents folks from coming to see us. 



00:10:01 Ryan: Absolutely. 



00:10:02 Erin: But I want to rewind just a little bit, because as I'm picking apart your bio and looking at all the things you've done, I mean, you have history in the military as an infantryman in the army. You have previous law enforcement experience. You've done all kinds of stuff from Secret Service Task Force to financial crimes detective. And then all of a sudden, one day you're like,

I think I want to go into financial planning, which is like, knowing the adrenaline rush that our folks seek every day, in and day out, and I'm sure you can relate to, I'm like, how does that even happen? That you're like, let me just hang this gun up and go handle people's finances. Paperwork. 



00:10:47 Ryan: Yeah, you mentioned a lot of things there. So I guess a little bit of my background, I could kind of cover that real quick to give you a sense for, I guess, the audience, but for those that aren't familiar, childhood for me was pretty good. I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, grew up in South Lebanon. So just north of Cincinnati there. Great childhood. It was me, my sister, both of my parents. My mom was a stay at home mom during my childhood. But my dad would work all the time, two or three jobs at the same times. Or middle class, nothing special there. 



00:11:17 Ryan: Enjoyed playing outside as a kid. And I know that doesn't happen as much nowadays with kids, especially with mine. But to in particular, influential people in my life. Now, both of my grandparents were first responders. So all my grandfathers on both my mom and my dad's side. So my dad's side, he was actually a retired trucker, but he was also a volunteer firefighter in the little township that we lived in for a number of years. And then my mom's dad, he retired from the Warner County Sheriff's Office, probably I'd say the early 90s, maybe 94, 96. So I talked to them a lot.



00:11:51 Ryan: As a kid, I always just thought what they did was pretty interesting. I really at that time didn't have any inclination to do that kind of work though. I thought I was going to play sports or something like that. But yeah, I think that transition started for me with 9/11. It says so many, I mean, when you hear about the war on terrorism veterans, there's a lot of people that say those same things. So once 9/11 happened for me, things changed in how I thought about the world.



00:12:22 Ryan: After I graduated in 2002, in 2003, I actually decided to join the military, went to their delayed entry program and decided to join the army. So after basic training and all the advanced training and things like that, I ended up getting stationed ultimately with the unit that I served with, 10th Mountain Division out of Ford Drum, New York. And shortly thereafter, I went to Afghanistan.



00:12:51 Ryan: For a long time, probably until 2018, we were the longest serving unit in Afghanistan. I spent about 16 months there. And if you're familiar with the book, the outpost by Jake Tapper, the first half of that book was about our unit. The second half of the book is based on the movie, The Outpost. An interesting caveat there is Lieutenant Keating inside the movie was actually our lieutenant when we were in Afghanistan. So you know how movies kind of get it wrong sometimes. So that was kind of weird watching that and be like, I was like, man, he, there was a good movie, but I thought he wasn't really with you guys. He was with us, but, um, so that was interesting. 



00:13:29 Ryan: But yeah, after that, you know, that was a tough time, right. Being in Afghanistan for 16 months at the time I was married with a two year old, that didn't last very long was I got deployed. So I knew in order to be a father, I would have to get out of the army and move back to Ohio. So that's what got me out of the military. Cause originally when I went in, I thought I'd be 20 years, 20 plus years and retire from there. So life happens, things changed, time to transition into something else, find a new mission. 



00:13:59 Ryan: And well, I just figured it'd be police or fire or something along those lines. I came back to Ohio in October 2007, I believe. And I was looking at the police academies and the fire academies. It was, let's see. Butler Tech Police Academy at the time, it was very hard to really get into law enforcement. They'd take a handful of people out of a hundred sometimes, right? Nowadays, I feel like you can just walk on and get in, so it was a different era then. So kind of fast forwarding, the reason ultimately why I chose police academy instead of the fire academy was the police academy started first. 



00:14:41 Ryan: The police academy was in January, the fire academy was in April, and I didn't want to wait that long, so I ended up joining the police academy. At that time, I applied to a few different places. Springfield PD picked me up first. So I don't think anybody knew who Springfield was until a couple of months ago, but now everybody knows where Springfield is. Yeah. So that's what I did. So I got picked up by them and then I went to a state patrol academy. So I went back to a second academy. So I did two academies in two years because that was their requirement. And then from there it was off to the races. Be on midnight most of my career.



00:15:18 Ryan: I had the opportunity to be on SWAT. I was the firearms and range instructor, active shooter training instructor. I was an FTO or field training officer on midnight shift. But getting to what you were talking about earlier, it was, I saw the tide changing in the profession. A litany of things that were in the microscope with the media and all that. And that was a big influence in how I wanted to move forward.



00:15:45 Ryan: I liked being proactive working on the street and I felt like it would be more of a microscope that I was under. So, you know, all the big cases, right? The Eric Garner was in July of 2014, the Michael Brown, August of 2014, Tamir Rice, November 14. Like that year kind of started it for me and that continued on for several different cases. And I thought, man, like this, I don't know if I want to do this, right? It's like you could do all the right things and still get hammered or still be wrong. And I thought, I think my family's been through enough in general.



00:16:23 Ryan: Is there anything else that I could do? So I thought, well, maybe I need to agree, maybe I don't. But if I can get to the detective bureau, then I can be on day shift, Monday through Friday, 8 to 4, then go to school at night. So that's what I did. There was like three slots back in the detective bureau. There were a couple of homicide slots then a financial crimes slot. And I think 19 put in, I think I was number one on the list and they told me to pick. So I picked financial crimes. I didn't want to be called out on Friday and Saturday night because I knew that would take away from time from studying. 



00:17:01 Ryan: So I picked financial crimes, not really knowing a whole lot about it. So that's kind of how that started for me. I worked back there with some great detectives, one that had been in financial crimes for a number of years, learned a lot from him. That was the same time you're part of that SOFIA team or the Southern Ohio Fraud Investigators Association tied in with the bank fraud investigators and then being part of that secret service task force as well. That's what I did there. That was really the goal to get through the next two and a half years or so, finish my batch force, and then actually get out into the private sector. That's what I did.



00:17:40 Cinnamon: Jeez Louise. Yeah. Talk about the guy who ends up becoming a professional planner. Like, I mean, you planned that and you planned that well and it sounds like your planning worked out as you planned it too. 



00:17:56 Ryan: Yeah. And there were some bumps in the road, of course, right? A lot of, a lot of trying times. But as we know, just like in law enforcement, just like being a firefighter, things don't always go according to plan. But if we have a plan, just like in financial planning, if we have a plan, we have a baseline. We have a starting point and we can get from point A to B to C and ultimately to Z. But in order to get to Z, we got to stay in the game. And sometimes that means when life happens, we have to learn how to transition what we're doing, reassess the situation, right? And then get back on target.



00:18:34 Ryan: So that's how I really thought about it. So there were definitely a lot of trials and errors along the way, but I just focused on the mission. I focused on what's the long-term vision. Shit's gonna happen. Shit's gonna hit the fan. I can't control everything. I can only control what I can control. And if I can do that really well, well then I'll be able to get through everything else. 



00:18:57 Cinnamon: Absolutely.



00:18:57 Erin: I guess my biggest question, just watching when we see folks retire and there's that grief, that heavy feeling of like, I don't know who I am, I've lost my identity. And so we watch these difficult transitions and see how it all takes place. And I'm just curious, how did you, was it like a no brainer? Of course I'm going, like this part of my life has played its part. Without going through that like heavy drop of the loss of identity of everything else. And maybe for you it wasn't challenging, but we just see that happening so often. How did you transition like that? So with such grace, it sounds like grace to us at least. 



00:19:535 Ryan: Well, and that's exactly what I gave myself. I gave myself grace because it wasn't always easy. You're this one thing, right? And you think that you do your job really well. So in the army, I think I did my job really well. Well, circumstances changed and I was able to no longer to do that given, you know, had to decide being in the army or being a full-time father. And I wasn't willing to sacrifice being a full-time father. Moving on to law enforcement. I felt like I did the job really well.



00:20:05 Ryan: Now I'm changing who I am again. Now we know who I am is more than just a job, but that's what we think a lot of times, right, as being a public servant. It's like, this is who we are. And there was a little bit of a gray area in there for me, right? It's like, man, I can't believe I just did this again. I'm doing really well. And then I hit the reset button and now I do really well. And then I hit the reset button and it's like, I'm trying to figure out.



00:20:34 Ryan: It's the ego. I feel like I want to do something different or I need to do something different for my family, but I can't drop the ego to allow me to do it. It's like, that was a battle inside my head and it was challenging at times. I felt like it took several years until I got to a point, you know, I'd say the last, I'll call it five years or so to where I kind of let all that go, which feels really damn good, but there were some dark times.


00:21:03 Ryan: That was a bad time for law enforcement. I felt like I was leaving people that needed me. I was leaving, you know, I think about that now and I hear stories and I'm like, oh man, like I wish I was there. Or they tell me something like, oh, we did this traffic stop last night and this happened. I'm thinking, oh my God, like if I was there, that'd be so awesome. You know, but now I just don't think about it too much. Like I did before, like before it weighed heavy on me. It was like, I was letting them down. And I mean, you talk through that enough with the right people and you overcome a lot of that.



00:21:43 Erin: Yeah. And it wasn't like you just retired. I mean, you had a game plan, like you said already. You moved to something new that you could kind of throw yourself into and embrace.



00:21:54 Ryan: I was pulling the rip cord. I didn't want to give myself a way back. I didn't keep my commission. Now I kind of wish I did, but the reason I didn't is I didn't want a reason to have to come back. I said, there is no plan B, figure it out. It's gonna suck, but we have to be willing to be uncomfortable, to grow and find out who we really are. Like it's essential. And that's when the best growth happens is when you put yourself in uncomfortable positions and around the right people. You know, I don't know who said it, but I've always heard this and I've told my son this, where you're gonna be in the next three to five years are by the books you read and the people you associate with. 



00:22:32 Ryan: And I think that there's a lot of value in that. So that's what I did. I put myself around the right people. I found the right mentors because I don't know everything. So who can help me? We can't go through life alone. We have to have people in our core, people like you, the mental health professionals, people like me, right? Like we need a team. And that's how I looked at it. And I read a lot of books. The great book that I recommend and we recommend here for all of our new retirees is called wellbeing. And it's the five essential elements by Tom Rath and Jim Carter, I believe it is. One of them is a doctor.



00:23:06 Ryan: Very important book, very important for those that's getting ready to retire, that's first responders. You've been this one thing your entire life, now what? What needs to happen is they're retiring from being a police officer, they're retiring from being a firefighter, but what are they retiring to? And until they have that to figured out, they just need to pump the brakes on retirement because you need something to retire to, whether that means, hey, I'm watching the grandkids five days a week.



00:23:36 Ryan: Hey, we're going on these trips or, you know, I'm joining a golf club or a gym. Like you gotta have something to do. You can't just sit at home on the couch and you know, that just leads to bad things. Right. And this book kind of talks about some of that stuff. And I'm sure both of you are familiar, maybe not with the book itself, but just those well-beings and that's how I think about it in our practices. He talks about these five well-beings, your career, your social, your financial, your physical, which also includes the mental and then your community. And it kind of goes in line with everything else. So when I got a hold of that book and read it, that really answered a lot of things for me. 



00:24:17 Ryan: Because I was always felt like a loner, like I could always do everything on my own. And I could for a decent amount of time, but I just knew going forward with all the things that I wanted to do, I just have to let go of some things. Some of it was my ego and I have to be willing to ask for help, right? And I'm really good about that. I don't know everything, but yeah, so that's a great book. So that's a great book. If you guys have an opportunity to read that, they take a deep dive, even on the physical and the mental side, they really talk about different things. 



00:24:50 Ryan: They are like your exercise and mental health, the sleep quality, emotional resilience, your cognitive health with your diets, stress management, and all of these little things, right? Like daily habits and things like that which was really beneficial. Yeah. And so when I think about meeting with new clients and people that I talked to, I really focused on that financial well-being part, right? Because that's really our area of expertise. So I want to make sure that you're filling all these buckets, right? Like if you have these five buckets, well, if we're just filling up one bucket, that feels good. We have all these other things that aren't really working very well and it's not helping you move further or move forward. So yeah.



00:25:33 Cinnamon: So what I hear you saying is if somebody comes and works with you, they're getting a lot more than just financial planning. It's the real thing. Right? Like they're accessing your wisdom and in all transparency while you were talking, I went ahead and found the book. Oh, yeah. And I said, it's Erin. So I'm like, let's talk about this later. It sounds like not only are you going to be able to handle that financial piece and understand what it's like to have that first responder income.



00:26:03 Cinnamon: That let's be honest is not great. Yeah. Certainly doesn't match the possible risks involved. So you understand that, but you also understand. I love what you said. You have to figure out what you're retiring to. And not just retiring from. I hear so often, I'm sure Erin does too. We're going to travel. And I'm like, yeah, and that's really expensive. So when you are not traveling and you're home on the couch waiting for the next trip to come, what are you going to be doing? So it's been a thought, but it certainly hasn't been a plan. 



00:26:35 Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's great. I think that if I can get in front of enough people, it's more than just, I mean, we'll knock the cover off the ball when it comes to financial well-being part, no problem there, right? But I want to help them try to fill those other buckets too. It's not just about, I had people call me something, hey, I'm thinking about taking this job. What do you think there? Well, financially, this hour is great. That's fine. How do you feel?



00:26:58 Ryan: Have you thought about the kinds of people that are there? Do you know anybody that works? I'm talking through stuff like that too, which I don't hate to do. Right. But if I can, I sit through enough client meetings, people that I hear a lot of great different stories. I hear a lot of mistakes. If I can help you avoid the big mistakes, they're going to be 10 times better than you were before you came in. That's really my job is to help you avoid mistakes. And that's actually on our website. If you go out to our website, we want to help you win mistakes. We want to help you avoid the things that you don't know. And they're everywhere. It's a big industry in the financial industry. And I feel like I'm learning every day myself. 



00:27:40 Ryan: I thought I had it figured out before I was even in this industry. I wasn't even close to figuring it out, right? So you don't have to know everything or learn everything on your own. And if I could be that resource to say, have you talked to your mental health therapist, right? I'm part of SISM for the Springfield area. So I'm a peer supporter there, but that's just really important too, right? Like you show up at the office and we're talking about investment returns and estate planning or taxes. And you're just like looking at me with your eyes glazed over, not because of the things that are up on the screen, but it just feels like you're thinking about last night or last week or that last call that you had before you came in. It's like, all right, let's reschedule. You just want to go home. You know what I mean?



00:28:24 Cinnamon: Yes, there's a lot of that we can relate to. 



00:28:28 Ryan: Yeah, like we don't have to be doing this right here right now. If you need some decompression time for, hey, let's take a walk around the block or let's go grab a beer or whatever it is, right? Whatever makes them calm. I guess alcohol would be the wrong answer, but you know what I mean?



00:28:42 Cinnamon: It's certainly the wrong answer for us. But it very well is maybe a good answer for you all. Different hats.



00:28:49 Erin: We're definitely not drinking with our people, but, you know--



00:28:51 Ryan: Yeah, sure. 



00:28:52 Cinnamon: No, honesty, we're not drinking at all. But we're definitely, if we're gonna fall off the wagon, it probably isn't gonna be with a client. 



00:29:02 Erin: Well, you said, you kind of led yourself in on accident to a question that I did have, which is like, what are the most common things that you see that are these mistakes or the most common troubles that you see people coming in with? 



00:29:16 Ryan: Yeah, big one is getting your plan of payment when you're retired. So imagine you and your husband, you worked in at the fire department for the past 25 plus years, you're getting ready to retire. How much do you leave your spouse? How do you know? Do they get 50%? Do they get 100%? Do they not get anything? What do they have going on there? How do you figure out those numbers? What I find is a lot of times they just kind of guess most of the time they would get it wrong just because they really don't have a plan to evaluate.





00:29:48 Ryan: You ask them, they might give you something, but ultimately they come back and say, I don't really know. I would just probably do this. And here's why. There's a lot of math involved in that. If you're going to really get it right, because these are irrevocable decisions. Okay. So once you decide what this is going to be, well, you can't change it. And then a lot of times, what you can find is if you get it wrong, you can end up losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost income throughout your lifetime and retired.



00:30:15 Ryan: So that's a very important piece of they have to get right. That's probably the number one piece because it's your ego. So they have to get it right. It's like when I hear some of my friends who have retired and I find out kind of after the fact and thinking, Oh my God, why didn't they call me? Cause I just assume they probably didn't get it right, but you can't do anything about it now either. Right. So yeah, that's a big one. This is an easy one for everybody to get right but it takes a little bit of time and a very little amount of money. 



00:30:49 Ryan: Most people I see that come in here that are first responders do not have wills. You can get them for free a lot of times. I have resources. 



00:30:56 Erin: Wait.



00:30:57 Ryan: A will. 



00:30:58 Erin: What? 



00:30:58 Ryan: Yeah, a will. 



00:30:59 Erin: I'm like, you do a job that have much higher likelihood of dying on this job and they don't have wills? 



00:31:09 Ryan: Yep. I would say. 



00:31:11 Erin: What? 



00:31:11 Ryan: I bet it's nine out of 10.

00:31:14 Erin: What? 



00:31:14 Ryan: Yep.



00:31:15 Erin: I feel like you can't even like sign paperwork to do this job. Unless you have that in place. 



00:31:21 Ryan: I've said this a few times to people when they come in is like, I'm not even writing a financial plan for you until you get a will. Just go get a will and then we'll talk. Especially if they have kids. So think about guardianship. That's a no brainer. People aren't doing it. It costs maybe 500 bucks. I mean, a truck payment for a lot of these people if it's a one timer and maybe you don't have to update it for many years. They got to get that right. Life insurance. That's another big one, okay? 



00:31:49 Cinnamon: That they don't have it? 



00:31:50 Ryan: Well, they may, but a lot of times the problem is that they're oversold insurance a lot. Guys like me that are planners have a hard time getting into the fire departments and the police departments because there's a lot of gatekeeping that goes on. It's very hard to get into the union halls and PDs and things like that. But the insurance people can get in pretty good. And a lot of times it's contractual, right? It's like, well, we can get in with ABC insurance company and because they have a contract with the city or whatever, which is fine. They need insurance, but I feel like most of the time they're oversold insurance. And what's that mean for this?



00:32:28 Ryan: Well, less cash flow. Right. So why do we have all this insurance? I don't know. The guy said I needed all this insurance. What did they take in your pension benefits to your survivor from the pension? If something were to happen to you? Well, probably not.

Unless they really know the pension too, right? I mean, they would have to really know the pension. And in my experience of being a police officer and insurance salesman's coming into the PD and selling me a policy, we didn't really go through all that. It was kind of like the Kentucky windage on like, what do you think you need? Right. Well, all my mortgage, I own this, I own that. And they kind of tally it all up. And it's just a number that doesn't make sense when you add in those survivor benefits. Those are three big keys right there.



00:33:11 Cinnamon: So maybe our listeners and how maybe even Erin understands what you just said, but when you say they oversold you insurance, so you are spending either monthly or annually more money than you need to for a greater policy because they're saying, well, you might in the event of your death, your survivors are going to want to spend this money, this money, this money to take care of the bills and whatever. And the policy will cover all of that great, except you also have this chunk of change over here that will also cover these things. And so if you reduce the amount of insurance payments that you're making, you have more money to put in your pocket either monthly or annually. 



00:34:00 Ryan: You got it. It's the biggest thing. The number one thing with insurance is replacement of income. Okay. So that's the big thing, right? Like if you and your spouse are both living and one dies, well, you're really trying to replace that income. So how can we replace that income and do all the other things that we want to do? And that's really what you have to figure out. You have to also factor in many times your pension benefits, right? What's covered, what's not covered, are you vested? Those kinds of things matter too. And every pension system is a little bit different in that regard, but that's very important to know. 



00:34:38 Ryan: And then we can kind of start bridging the gap there. I see a lot of times they might have a big whole life policy. Why do we have a million dollar whole life policy? You have like two hundred fifty thousand dollars in debt. There's all these other little things, but it's like, yeah, okay, my wife dies and I get a million bucks. That feels good. But most the chances of me dying is not very great. Right. And the profession is much greater. But if I die in the profession now, my actual replacement income from our spouse on the survivor benefits is going to be a lot higher. Okay, so that's going to replace a lot of that income. So why do we have a million dollar policy when we only need $600,000 or $500,000? And that varies for everybody. Everybody's situation is a little bit different. 



00:35:23 Cinnamon: And when you say you're replacing that income, obviously an insurance policy doesn't keep going. So it's not like every year that I'm alive and they've passed away, I'm getting their annual income.

So what that is, the replacement of the income is for about a year.



00:35:40 Ryan: What do you mean exactly? 



00:35:42 Cinnamon: So you are using the language if we're looking to replace that income. Right now I'm banking on my husband being with me till death do us part.  Which is going to be a long time from now. I'm very useful. But I also know that if his income was taken away, God forbid something happens to him for one year, like, okay, that may be an okay year but what happens after that year? So when you're telling me about this insurance policy replacing his income, what does it actually mean to replace somebody's income? 



00:36:17 Ryan: So what that really means is, is thinking about how much this person makes net, right? So if you're living off 5,000 bucks a month, and now you're only living off of, well, let's say if you combine 5,000 bucks a month, right? And then now your spouse passes away, and now you only have 2,500 bucks a month. Well, we got to figure out a way to not really change your lifestyle financially. Okay. And supplement that income. Right. So we probably need to net about 2,500 bucks a month. Right. And then, so that's how you think about replacing that income. 



00:36:50 Ryan: On top of that, we want to go ahead and knock out all the debt. Most in most cases, I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't do that, but that's what you're going to want to do because well, that's the other side of the coin. If we can replace our income, but at the same time we can get rid of debt, which also increases our cashflow. So that's what you're going to do with that. But what I really see a lot of times is the numbers are wrong. And most of the time it's a benefit to the insurance salesman because they get a higher payout when they sell bigger premium policies. 



00:37:22 Ryan: So, you know, we don't think about it like that. I mean, we sell life insurance and if they want me to write a policy for them, like I'll do it, but I don't care where you get your insurance from, go to State Farm, go to wherever. It doesn't matter to me where you get it. You just need the coverage. So we're not looking to sell anything. I want you to have enough to where it doesn't hurt you if something were to happen. There doesn't hurt your spouse if something were to happen to you. That's the key. 



00:37:51 Cinnamon: So do you feel like there's a difference between you as someone who has worked this Blue collar job who understands what those paychecks look like, that you are motivated by something other than maybe a general insurance person who's like, let's do those things to build up those sales where you're like, dude, I know the kind of money coming into your pocket. I'd feel bad if I was taking advantage of, you know, only know what we know. And this is your field. So do you feel like having that experience of knowing what it's like to be a law enforcement officer using that paycheck to make sure your family gets going from month to month to month, that you have a different maybe like conscience about how you approach this.



00:38:38 Ryan: Absolutely, I do. I'm very cautious on cost. Okay, like nickel and diming of everything drives me nuts. For me, when I think of insurance, it's all about the sales. So their job is to sell you a policy. Here's the thing that they're not experts in everything else. So they're not going to know some of the things that we would know to factor in, to not sell you a higher policy, but their job every time they get in the front of somebody is to sell them policy, right? Like you can't turn down people when your business is transactional. Our business isn't transactional. We're in the relationship business. So my goal is to have you on our team as a client, and then you'll be a client when I retire, right? 



00:39:22 Ryan: It's you'll be working with somebody else here at three creeks. That's going to end here at the business at some point or take over the business at some time, right? So it's different in that regard. And then also too, we only have so many dollars, right? So there's only so many dollars that we have every month. And if we can figure out a way to minimize our cost and really have a purpose for our money, it's going to go a lot further no matter what it's going to allow us to afford the will. That's 500 bucks is going to allow us to maybe buy a trust if we have more complex estate planning issues with second families, right?



00:40:00 Ryan: If you think about husband and wife getting divorced, which happens a lot in the industry, right? In the profession, there could be a reason there where there's trust planning that needs done. It's figuring out all these components between retirement planning, insurance and risk management, getting your investments right and not worrying about what the market does or who the president is that really long term, that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all. 



00:40:24 Ryan: Of course, we just had an election, right? And we got a few calls, a few text messages. Should I invest differently? Should I be more safe or take my money out of the market? I don't know. I'm not a genie. I can't tell you what the future holds with the market. But what we know is, is the market goes up 75% of the time. And if we look out five, 10 years down the road, it's likely going to be up.



00:40:47 Ryan: We can't really be trading our retirement. We just have to invest, keep our head down, focus on all these other things and invest for the long term. So tax planning is another big one, right? Tax planning is super important. Nobody wants to pay one penny more than they need to pay in taxes. And we helped them figure that out. Shouldn't they be doing Roth conversions now at a younger age instead of waiting until they get a little bit older when they have all this taxable income in retirement? It could save them thousands and thousands of dollars in retirement by just thinking about their investments differently. And then ultimately the estate planning side, managing your debt, how to get stuff paid off faster before they retire. That's a big component. I don't like for my people to go into retirement with a mortgage if they don't have to, right? Because that's usually one of their biggest expenses in retirement for those that have that still. So yeah, it's all those things. 



00:41:41 Erin: Wow. It's like, it's funny because I am 43 years old and I'm still not quite a grownup. I was joking with Cinnamon yesterday about how my little brother has always been super responsible with finances and like he's invested and he's bought homes and all the things. And I'm like, how do we grow up in the same family? And I am so terrible with money and he's so responsible with money because even, and my husband is 53 years old and he's like, we're gonna die soon and we would like to retire before that happens and we got to figure out what we're going to do so we can at least have a couple years of good times. And it's like, man, just trying to get by every day, the things you just don't think about. 



00:42:26 Ryan: I think that's so true. I think it's balanced. And I feel like a lot of times most first responders don't have financial planners. They just don't think about it. They say, well, hey, I got this job. One day I'll have a pension. I have my Ohio for a comp. I'm probably good to go. Well maybe.



00:42:43 Cinnamon: Financial planners are bougee. You've got to have more than paycheck to paycheck. Like, I got a plan for my money. It's going to be gone by the end of the month because I got shit to buy, right? They're like, so the idea of like what you do, that's my first thought, right? And my husband is in the financial business. The idea that what can you offer me as someone who's struggling to make sure I don't have like $17 in my bank account between now and my next paycheck? What value does something like a financial planner add to someone who isn't Warren Buffett? 



00:43:21 Ryan: Sure. Yeah, I mean, think about it. Most of my people, 90 something percent are police or fire. Right? So if you think about that, I mean, those are all my people. So there are people that have figured it out. But to your point, for those that are still working and it hasn't accumulated assets, that's why I thought number one, it was a good strategy for a subscription. Cause you can't afford 125 bucks a month if you really want it to. My idea is balance. So if they're really wanting to move the ball forward and get these things right, eventually they're going to get to a point to where it's not going to be a big deal. They're not going to think about it anymore. Right. 



00:43:58 Ryan: So it also, also too, I mean, a lot of cops and firefighters think that they have it figured out and they don't, but we think that because we're problem solvers. That's what we do. We show up to calls and we solve problems. Well, that's what I do too. I just do it for them because there's a lot of holes and that's my job is to help fill those gaps and I'd like to say that we have more no judgment free zone here, so I don't care how you invested in the past or that you don't have the will or whatever it's like you came into the office. All right, let's get to work. What do you want to do? When do you want to retire? Should you buy that home now? Should you wait?



00:44:38 Ryan: Right. How much home can you afford? All these things. What debt should I pay off first? Let's get a game plan together and move the ball forward, because I think ultimately that's the key. And if they feel like you're sincere, you're not going to judge them for their past, the things that they bought, because I've seen some crazy stuff, a lot of debts, a lot of different things like that to where it's like, okay, let's work through it. What do we need to do?



00:45:05 Ryan: It's not about what they've done. It's about where we can go from here. So I think that's a big component too, but there's so many ways that we can help. And then, like I said before, even if they have a couple of questions and we don't work together, if I can provide a little bit of value to say, here's how I think about this, this is what I would do. And then just go do it. Maybe they don't need me right now. Maybe they'll need me in 10 years. I don't know, but if I can help them and provide value, then that's what I'll do.



00:45:33 Erin: Well, clearly we've learned that that you've provided.



00:45:36 Cinnamon: I may be calling you soon. Ryan, do you also work with non-first responders? 



00:45:42 Ryan: Well, yeah, I mean, think not everybody is married to a first responder. So think about spouses and things like that. So whether they're, I mean, mostly Ohio public employees here in our business, or here at Three Creeks, but you know, we have doctors, professors, business owners, things like that too, but overwhelming majority are public servants themselves or they're married to. Like high 90s, those are our people. That's who we serve best. Families that are tied to the pension system. 



00:46:15 Cinnamon: Okay, so Erin and I work with a lot of volunteer departments. No, we know that volunteer departments usually get the least amount of quality mental health services. And a lot of times their exposure, what they're not given is that time around the agency or a department kitchen table, whatever you want to say, to kind of process a lot of that. So one of our goals has been to make sure that we're reaching out to the people. Yeah, they have jobs. They're out of the goodness of their heart, which Erin has the hardest time wrapping her head around. But I grew up with it. So it's a little more familiar. 



00:46:56 Cinnamon: So let's say I'm just a volunteer, and I'm not part of that pension program and my job or my primary income is something else. Can I still call you? And clearly I heard what you said, but I also know our volunteers that are listening, I want them to hear you say it. You can still understand where they're coming from. And to be able to help them without that judgment or questioning of what they've done in the past or how'd you get yourself in this situation? 



00:47:26 Ryan: Yeah. That's definitely not my mentality at all there, right? It's definitely, I mean, I look at it like this, and maybe this is bad for business, but I try to help anybody I can. It's not always about the money. Sometimes you just find a friend or through good conversation. And I look at it like this too. If I can do good things and provide great advice or just talk through something with somebody, even if they're not a client, let's find me. I think part of that's karma too, right? It's like, if I do enough good things for good people, it'll come back at some point. I just don't worry about it too much. 



00:48:03 Erin: I keep muting myself. My daughter's home from school sick. But, so you didn't get to hear my big sigh when you said that this idea of just helping that next person, it creates that energy. And you can tell you genuinely care about people and what their futures and current live financial situation looks like because like I said before, we watch it all the time. People can't even come to see us sometimes. And sometimes it's like ridiculous, whatever, they can't afford that deductible. And it's like, but this is gonna be the means to an end for that not to be a problem. So it's so sad to see people struggle like that. 



00:48:43 Ryan: Yeah, I totally agree with me. For me, there's definitely a lot of value what we do on the planning side, but just to have a normal conversation outside of business, right? Cause you have your business conversations like, hey, you're a client or maybe you're not a client. But we have to get through these things to figure out how we move forward or how I can help you going forward. But ultimately, when I think about all of those other things, like even providing value just through my experience of reading or listening to podcasts or whatever it may be, if there's a way that I can help, whether that's helping them confront some of the hard truths, talking about value and vulnerability personally and professionally, like I've kind of went down that road a little bit.



00:49:26 Ryan: Getting into those daily routines, you're getting up and going in more. If you're a spiritual person, maybe you need to start going to church a little bit more or finding that mentor. I think mentors are huge. If you can find the right team, the right person, you never want to be the smartest person in the room. So you have to be willing to put yourself in uncomfortable situations and get around the right people. I just feel like if you can do that, you're going to look back 10 years from now, you're going to be like, how the hell did that happen?



00:49:56 Ryan: Well, you did all these little micro things, right? These little daily routines got in this rhythm, got in the system. And it just happens. It's really hard to explain. But for me, I think that's kind of how it worked out for me. Not to say that I didn't have the ups and downs. I surely did. I was really focused on the end result in getting to a certain place in my career to where I could look back and be like, holy shit, how did this happen?



00:50:27 Ryan: Just grind every day. There's always a new challenge. There's always something to be pissed off about or scared about. Like it's not, okay, let's talk about it and move on. Let's get through it. You know, and I know you're in the mental health space, so I get it, but some things that bother me sometimes is rehashing that stuff. So for me, I mean, everybody kind of learns differently or has a different thought on this maybe, but I have a hard time, unless it's a necessity going back in time.



00:50:56 Ryan: Whether it's an experience that I had or whatever, like I don't think about the past too much anymore. I did before, but I'm very careful for people that wanna live in the past. So people that wanna live in the past is not really where I'm at in my life. I'm living for today and what's gonna happen tomorrow. And I have some control in that. And a lot of that control comes from my daily actions. 



00:51:23 Erin: Absolutely.


00:51:25 Cinnamon: I feel like a little amen is coming. So you led right into my next question, because as mental health clinicians, we get to see some of those compulsive behaviors that can get folks in situations. So I'm going to use myself as an example to make sure I don't offend anybody or break any confidentiality. So let's say I have a little bit of an Amazon issue. And every month somehow you see my statements and you're like, Cinnamon, we've got to curb this shopping thing because this is really impeding your ability to do what we planned on doing. 



00:52:05 Cinnamon: And I'm like, okay, I got it. I understand. I come back time after time again. At what point do you say to someone, I think that this is not a financial issue. I think there's some other stuff that's going on that's leading you to either spend the money the way you're doing or unsave the money that you're saving? Like have you ever had to refer someone to deal with a bigger problem because it starts to show up in their financial planning? 



00:52:38 Ryan: Yeah, a couple of times. So kind of going back from the start there when you were talking, one of the things that popped in my head that I think about when it's, well, I'm spending in on this and I'm spending on that and I have all these little habits that doesn't help me financially, mentally, whatever it is, right? Because they're all kind of interconnected, right? So if I'm spending a lot of money on things that I shouldn't be spending money on. Well, we may just think is affecting just affecting our financial well-being, but it's actually affecting your mental well-being as well. Right. Subconscious. And that's a problem. 



00:53:10 Ryan: So going back to another book that I read that was an awesome book, I think the guy was James or Jim Shields. I don't remember how to spell the name, but it's called the Family Board Meeting. It's going back to the roots. It's a short read, maybe like a hundred cent pages. You could probably read it in like a couple of hours. But ultimately it's really figuring out those goals, those financial goals, those life goals. Because when you start to have a plan, I'm not just talking about a financial plan, I'm talking about a life plan, right? Where do you want your kids to go to school? 



00:53:44 Ryan: Or, you know, when do you want to retire? Where do you want to move to? Like, what do you want your weekly routine to be with you and your family? Are you having dinner without the TV on or putting their phones away and spending good quality time and having great conversations around the kitchen table? That family board meeting changed my perspective on how I organize my whole life, right? And they talk about one thing that I remember specifically, they talk about putting these rocks on your calendar. What does that mean? 



00:54:14 Ryan: Well, rocks are something like short of somebody dying. If I put this on my calendar for the year, and this is great going into the new year coming up. So what are the things on my calendar that are really important to me? Like it's super important that I would do for myself or my family or with my family. And let's put them on the calendar. More date nights with my wife or I'm going to do a daddy-daughter date night. Like we're going to go to the Columbus crew game or whatever it is. Right?



00:54:46 Ryan: Put them on the calendar, hold yourself accountable, right? The accountability factor out, get some structure. And then that way you start to say, okay, I'm wanting to do these things and spend my money on this, but we're gonna be buying tickets to the concert that me and my wife are going to. Is that gonna help me or hurt me? If I spend this money, is it gonna help me or hurt me? Is it gonna help my family or is it gonna hurt my family? If I go out drinking every night, and I'm coming home late and the kids and the wife are asleep. Is that helping me or is that hurting?



00:55:21 Ryan: Is that helping my family or hurting my am I putting too much pressure on my wife to do all the things that she does? But then maybe a lot of the things that I need to be doing. Okay, there are my actions behind the scenes helping me or hurting. And if you can have a real come to Jesus moment with yourself with that and write it on the freaking wall or something.



00:55:43 Ryan: Get you a dry resport. I have a dry resport right there. I ride on all the time. Have some accountability. Let the ego go and plan accordingly and get all your ducks in a row that way. Because when you start doing that, your life just changes. It really does. Like you start moving in a positive direction real quick. So yeah, there has been times like that with clients to where not a lot, but it's two in particular that could think it's just I felt like they weren't getting enough sleep. They were working too much. It's like, stop working overtime. This stuff's gonna pay off. We're on a timeline. Like you don't have to pay it off early. Take time off and go spend it with your kids. Just do it. 



00:56:25 Ryan: Assuming that you're on a shift minimum so you can get time off, right? Don't put more pressure on yourself because the job's hard enough. It's the hardest job in the world is to be a first responder. So why are you putting all extra pressure on yourself? You gotta surround yourself, put the right people and the right team and then hold yourself accountable big time, write your goals on paper or on a board. And that's how I would dissect all that, because I do see it from time to time to where it's like, I don't know, like I met with him today. We went through everything, but he was just off today. 



00:56:57 Ryan: Like, I feel like maybe he should talk this way. So maybe I'll reach out to him later tonight just to see how he's doing or what he's doing. And then if I can connect with them offline, if they're local or something like that, that's something I would do, too, if it made sense.



00:57:10 Cinnamon: This is fantastic. I have a running list, as you've been talking, of client names that I'm just adding to be like send to Ryan. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, he said that. Oh, that would apply to blah, blah, blah. And I think that I hope that folks out there listening are also going, oh, that applies to me. Let me call Ryan. Blah, blah, blah.



00:57:34 Ryan: I mean, think about it. These are some of the greatest people in the world. Down the earth, all over the earth kinds of people under the most stressful kinds of careers, the jobs, I mean, you name it, right? And it's like, we got together collectively, we got to focus on their total wellbeing. Like, and that's why I look at it too. Like we lift all boats, right? It's not just me, you know, making money, helping these guys out. No, I want them all to make a lot of money. I want to help them avoid whatever mistakes they are. And it's part of lifting all the boats, right?



00:58:07 Ryan: I know if I can help them be successful, well then they're probably gonna help somebody else be successful. Or maybe they can focus more time on their kids and have a better relationship there. My goal is to help take things off their plate, not add to it, right? 



00:58:21 Erin: Yeah, thankfully. And so I'm wondering, because obviously you're here in Ohio and sounds like you serve Ohio. Do you have relationships with other people? Obviously our listeners are all over the country. So what would you suggest for them because we'll put your stuff on our resources page. But what about everybody else? 



00:58:42 Ryan: So clients in Missouri, Florida, Pennsylvania, Texas, really all over. I mean, if you think about it from a financial planning perspective, we can really help anybody. Now from a marketing perspective, if you think about just marketing, well, in our industry, it's very easy to be a generalist, so to kind of be average at all things. But we really focus on our niche for public employees because we have a really, really, really good understanding of the pension system. So between me and the owner of the business, Todd Gurnow, who used to work for STRS pension system for seven years here in the state of Ohio, and between him and I, we know the ins and the outs of the pension system. 



00:59:23 Ryan: And if we don't, the answer is very quickly just by whether it's giving them a call or calling their internals at the pension. So there's ways that we can get information to very quickly. The only caveat with other states is we can do all of those things, but if they have pension related questions, it would just take a little bit more work on my end to figure out what they're doing, wherever they are. The good news is a lot of that stuff is applicable with how we read through the pension. If somebody is a Pennsylvania State Police Officer, well,  I'll just read some of his pension documents, talk with them or their educational benefits people apply that to how we do things here and we'll get it figured out that way. 



01:00:10 Ryan: So I don't know all the answers from all the other pensions and all the other states, but when it comes to Ohio, we can get those users pretty quickly. 



01:00:18  Cinnamon: Good to know. And I was thinking, and I don't know if this is why Erin also asked, but we're licensure oriented. So unless we have a license in that state, we can't practice. And so you there are states in particular that you're licensed in? Or do you have like an overarching like you can work in whatever state, the following states or how does that work for you? 



01:00:40 Ryan: Now, I would have to be licensed, but all we have to do in our industry for license is pay a money. That's all we care about. 



01:00:47 Erin: How lovely when that happens. 



01:00:48 Ryan: Right. So just as an example, if I pick up a client, let's see what state do I have somebody in. Let's say Oregon. I don't have anybody in Oregon. If I had a client or a prospective client call me from Oregon, well, I could talk to them, say, Hey, let's figure out if it's a good fit through our discovery call. Maybe it's a good fit. Maybe it isn't. If it is, and we move forward. The first thing I have to do is go into our internal system and buy the license to work in that state. Which all those, all the states are different prices, right? So yeah, so that's how that works. So some states are really expensive and some not so much.





01:01:27 Erin: Man, if only were that easy. 



01:01:29 Cinnamon: But no tests you have to take and no transcripts you have to provide, no blood you have to give, fantastic. Good for you. 



01:01:37 Erin: So just so people can actually hear it, cause not everybody goes to our show notes or our resources page, what's the best way for folks to find you and connect with you? I'm sure people will have questions after this. 



01:01:49 Ryan: Yes, if you go to our website, 3creekscapital.com. You can type in the, in Google three creeks. You can spell it out. You can put the number three, but 3creekscapital.com. It'll take you to our website. You'll know it's us when you get there and who we serve. We just built out this website this year. Our other website was pretty good, but this one's way better. And it's more of a custom website for us. So you see at the very beginning of this financial planning and education Ohio police officers, Ohio firefighters, Ohio professors, retired workers, two of those really Ohio public employees, teachers, and that's who we serve. We're in the service business too. 



01:02:27 Ryan: So just as they're serving our communities, we're serving them. So that's how we see it. We have pages for each pension system. So if you're an OP&Rs member, you can click on there, right. And it talks about a little bit about OP&Rs and what they should know, whether it's avoiding the number one mistake, understanding one fall elimination provision or the government pension offset. We have our own guides on each pension system there. And then we have case studies with clients, but they're not the real client names, right? But it's things that really happened and these case studies and success stories to how we plan for our people. 



01:03:03 Ryan: So yeah, that's a great resource. We have a ton of educational resources on there in our knowledge library. The library, we have some e-guides, everything from how to minimize your tax liabilities, the top five mistakes that Ohio employees make, tax return preparation checklist, talking about HSAs, all that stuff, bi-weekly payments for your mortgages, all these things. And we're constantly trying to add that to our website and then also videos on our YouTube channel where we talk about the pension and other financial topics. 



01:03:41 Erin: Okay. An abundance of resources.



01:01:43 Cinnamon: And I did a little stalker move and it is the digit three at Creeks Capital on the website. So you punch in the number three, not T-H-R-E-E. 



01:03:55 Ryan: Yeah. And check out our reviews. We've got quite a few reviews. And just you can see what other people are saying. I value reviews a lot, right? Like if I'm going to go to a restaurant, either they need to be referred to me or I'm looking up the reviews or whatever. Right. Because I like to know what I'm getting into. I mean, I'm a former first responder. Like I like to have some kind of knowledge. I'm not shocked when I get there. Right. 



01:04:19 Erin: Don't get caught off guard. 



01:04:20 Cinnamon: You don't like to walk in a blindsley. Well, and I mean, that's how we get most of our businesses through word of mouth. And I think that to me, it's so much more valuable to say, hey, I worked with this guy, Ryan Mink, and he was so helpful. Like you should go check them out. Check him out as well. I think that to me is so much more of a powerful endorsement than if you Google first responder financial planning and you somehow managed to massage SEO to get yourself on top. I appreciate your suggestion and throwing it out there because not everybody is willing. They're like, no, actually don't look at those things. Just look here. 



01:05:03 Erin: Well, Ryan, I appreciate you so much. And obviously we got to reschedule and just staying connected with you. And like I said, taking care of the people that we've sent your way. And yeah, you're clearly helping a lot of people and this is something that is important for people to know. And so it's great to have had the opportunity to spend some time with you today. Is there anything that you feel like we didn't ask you that would be supportive for our listeners to know? 



01:05:29 Ryan: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think we covered a lot of things. I just want to emphasize the importance of not only my industry, but just about the profession and taking care of yourself and one another. We have one life. And everybody has value. And I feel like a lot of times with the job, with the profession, people are just, they lose hope. And I think that's it. I think that we need the opportunity to come together as a community, build a team of people that can get us through this next phase in life, because to say, or think that you're going to do any of this or all of this on your own.


00:01:06:11 Ryan: You're really just fooling yourself and it's a dangerous game to play. And there are a lot of people out there willing to help, you know, with, with what you guys are doing extremely difficult job, right? You're balancing a lot of different things at one time with emotions and, and just real life things. And it's, and it's very impactful for them. It's very uncomfortable too, but going back to what I said before is when we're most uncomfortable, that's when we have the most growth. So if we can kind of push through that. Keep our head down, put our eyes forward and push through that. We'll come out on top. And if I can never be a resource to anybody, whether it's financial related or not financially related, call me. I'm here to help any way I can.



01:06:58 Cinnamon: You do have that peer side of you too. 



01:07:00 Ryan: Yeah, I got that a little bit. 



01:07:03 Erin: Awesome. 



01:07:04 Cinnamon: Again, thank you so much for being with us today. I look forward to getting to know you more, like offline, keeping an eye on what you're up to. And thank you so much for taking the time with us and taking the time for our folks and your folks too. 



01:07:20 Ryan: That's good. Well, I appreciate your guys' time.


01:07:27 Erin: Thank you for joining us for today's episode of After the Tones Drop. Today's show has been brought to you by Whole House Counseling. As a note, After the Tones Drop is for informational purposes only and does not constitute for medical or psychological advice. It is not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please contact a local mental health professional in your area if you are in need of any assistance.




You can also visit Afte and click on our resources tab for an abundance of helpful information. And we would like to give a very special thank you and shout out to Vens Adams, Yeti, and Sanda for our show's music.