The Drinking Dilemma: Hotline Caller

EP76: The Drinking Dilemma 

Erin: [00:00:00] The hotline has been lighting up lately and that is super cool. That means that one, this opportunity is getting in front of people that people are starting to realize that we have the hotline and they can call and ask questions and share their concerns.

so that's the hotline. really cool, but also the fact that people are finding their voice and having the courage to call in. we recently released a hotline call from our friend in Australia, and now we have another caller who is, inquiring specifically about alcohol this individual is a newly, aged 21 year old 

Cinnamon: Of age. 

Erin: of age and has some questions and thoughts about, should I drink?

I know this is a problem in our culture and my fear is that maybe it will become a problem for me, but I go back and forth about it. So what we can do is Go ahead and play the recording for you, [00:01:00] and then we'll chime in on what we think about it. Sound good to you, Cin?

Cinnamon: Yes, we have lots of thoughts. 

Erin: Do you have anything else you want to add? 

Cinnamon: I just want to say up front, I'm so impressed that, you know, as much as there's lots of conversations about generational differences in the public safety world right now, I think that, We really need to take a harder look at our young people coming in and give them the credit they're due. They are

inquisitive, and they're curious, and they ask questions, and they're thoughtful, and they want to be prepared, and they know they need to take care of their mental health. And to me, that is so much more wise. Then waiting till you're 30 years in and you're on your third marriage and you're drinking too much And you're a jerk to everybody that you care about and you're miserable.

Now Somebody else can say [00:02:00] to these young people like, oh, I'm sorry Did you stub your toe and now you gotta go see a therapist? but like fuck that like don't let those people even enter your mind as far as That being a wise thing to do, we clearly have a suicide epidemic and those are the folks who didn't think it was okay to get help.

You know, some of them did and it ended the way it did anyway, but I feel so strongly like you can't call someone a pussy because they're getting ahead of what we already know is a chronic problem. 

Erin: Yeah. All right. I'm gonna play you the audio. 

Caller:
So, my question has to do with substance abuse. I've worked at the volunteer fire agency for a couple years now, and this year I [00:03:00] turned 21. 

Caller: With the high level of addiction and everything that is common in first responder and fire service, I worry that if I start drinking that I'll develop an addiction to it.

So I go to the other extreme of not drinking anything. But I wonder if that's a trauma response as well of going from one extreme of worrying about addiction and over drinking and yet going to the other extreme of never drinking anything because I'm worried about what could or might happen. So

thank you guys for taking I appreciate everything that you guys are doing. And I look forward to whatever insight you have, so, thanks! 

Cinnamon: [00:04:00] 

So as we're talking like, I know that there is a lot of, substance misuse or, alcoholic behavior or dependency in the first responder world. this person's wondering is it an extreme to say I just don't want to even have to navigate that path like maybe I shouldn't drink at all but then also is that too far extreme and my concern about all this is if we could have evidence that we're not going to become dependent then we should want to drink there is no space in our culture where somebody just decides.

Thanks. Regardless of my relationship with alcohol, as far as can I handle it? Can I not handle it? It's, I don't like it. And I don't want to, and I don't want to feel that sense of being out of control, or I don't need to numb like that. it can be a slippery slope. And I don't think that everybody has to be dependent on [00:05:00] alcohol where they're going to need detox.

If they stop, I think it can be problematic drinking that doesn't serve someone regardless of if it's, falling into the category of what we talk about in AA as far as an allergy, to the body. But about a month before I got sober, I met a long distance cousin, Facebook and what I found out from her was she had never had alcohol in her life because her.

Dad, who had the same last name as I do, was an, terrible alcoholic. So she just made that decision to never ever have to even deal with it. that was not my experience. I did not know that I had a family history of alcoholism and, I don't know if I would have done something different had I had that inside.

 Information, but maybe I would have because I know the people that have come after me, I've been part of the family history now of addiction that has gotten people to [00:06:00] stop, misusing alcohol because I'm one more person to point to of like, see, it's in our family. I want to say to this person, If you start doing this and you don't take care of your mental health, it is really hard to see of the future where you're not using alcohol to numb the shit you see and the pain that comes with it. So, I want to find that balance of like, you're allowed to not drink for no other reason.

Then you don't want to drink and that can be like, not just a night by night thing, but that can just be like a commitment where I don't want to do that. The other piece is if you don't have your mental health in check and most of us don't get our mental health in check until it's out of check, then the organic, slope that we're going to slide into is using whatever we can, whether it's alcohol, food, shopping, sugar, carbs, whatever, to numb the pain we're experiencing, 

Erin: [00:07:00] Yeah. There was a very specific thing that the caller said, which was, is this another form of me being affected by some kind of trauma that it's the idea of extremes, right? So this concept of extreme, I'm going to abuse alcohol potentially, or extreme, there is this underlying sense of cautiousness and concern and fear, even that.

Is causing me to choose not to partake in alcohol consumption. And is that something that's trauma related in some way, shape or form? And here's my thought on that. First of all, just because we turned 21 doesn't mean we need to

Cinnamon: or that we're equipped to handle 

Erin: There's no rules. no one has to drink just because they turn 21.

And yes, in this world, drinking is kind of like secondhand for a lot of people, but also there's a lot of people that are first responders that don't drink or that have shared with me the same thing Cinnamon just shared, like I actually choose [00:08:00] not to drink because I've watched what it did to my dad, my mom, my sister, my brother, whatever. my caution here is especially in a world where word trauma is so loosely used. in every category. It's like,kid gets a bad grade and, gets scolded by mom. That's trauma. like that's how loosely it's been getting used. No, that's actually parenting. And that's talking to your kid about what happened, how'd the ball get dropped? How can we work through this? 

Cinnamon: And even developmental stress, right? Like part of growing up is experiencing stress and learning how to navigate it.

Erin: now, obviously we're clear that trauma is, much more prevalent in the first responder community, of course, based on everything that, that you all see and experience.but. is it possible to just say, look, I'm not sure if this is a responsible choice for me to drink because I know that [00:09:00] there's a higher likelihood based on trauma that I may become dependent on alcohol.

And so for me, maybe it is in my best interest to either not partake or be mindful when I do, but it doesn't have to be a thing. 

Cinnamon: Yeah. And if you would compare it to like now that you have to be 21 to buy tobacco, no one is going to call us and say, you know, I'm about to turn 21 and I'm wondering whether or not I should pick up my first can of snuff or my first pack of cigarettes.

Erin: that's not even a question. and yes, nicotine is very quickly addictive, but alcohol, that's what is so worrisome, is that we're real clear that it's not a good idea just because you turn 21 to go buy your first pack of cigarettes. Yeah.

Yeah. 

Cinnamon: about, well, now I can access alcohol legally, I should, or I should want to, or I've been waiting [00:10:00] anxiously all through my first 21 years for this day to come. I don't know. What would we say if somebody was like, yeah, my kid's about to turn 21. So I'm taking them out for their first, pack of cigarettes. 

Erin: People will be like. 

Cinnamon: We'd call, we'd say that's a terrible pair. Like, what are you doing? But if somebody says, Hey, my, my son just turned 21. And so I'm going to take them out for his first drink. 

Erin: Nobody bats an eye. 

Cinnamon: What a great bonding experience. Oh, that's so cool that you and your kid, that you're not, some stiff that, and your kid will, do that with you and blah, blah, blah.

How did we get so different about those two issues? That there is a reckoning that you are not responsible enough to make a good choice. Until you're at least 21.

Erin: Yeah. Well, it's kind of the same thing I think about when for example, I won't let my kids watch a certain movie because there's like ridiculous amounts of adult content, specifically

Cinnamon: Is this a specific movie or is this just like in general?[00:11:00] 

Erin: no, this is 

Cinnamon: okay. Cause I'm like, what's the movie? I we need to watch, right? 

Erin: don't know, but okay, so there's a movie.

It's got high levels of sexual content. I don't want my kid watching that, but there's a movie where they're like blowing people up with fricking bombs and guns and they're, fighting violently and it's like, Oh, no big deal. So it's when you said that, that's what I thought about.

Like, why do I let my kid do choice a. But better not see a boob, right? So it's an interesting dynamic, how our culture, the culture of being a human being has created this thing that it's like choice A is okay, but choice B isn't, even though they're really one in the same at this end of the day.

not to go down a rabbit hole, which we, All I can think about with this person is one, something that our previous guest Chris said [00:12:00] about the younger generation coming through the first responder world is they're 15 steps ahead of the game in terms of being really aware of their mental health, of their bodies, of their thoughts, of what's possible.

they've been raised by different parents so. I see this collar as being highly self aware and responsible and it does not need to be any more than this might not be a good idea for

Cinnamon: Yeah. And the fact that, we still have 40, 50, 60 year old first responders or retirees that we're working with that are so adamant about. not wanting to do this work or thinking they don't need to do this or even if they're ready. It's still such like a slow going and then you get this young person who's like I'm anticipating I'm looking around I'm seeing that this is a concern.

I don't want it to become mine. How do I be proactive [00:13:00] I mean you say 15 steps? I'm like 15 light years apart and I don't know if this ties in, but I was thinking about my mom and my mom and I share recommendations back and forth, whether it be books or TV shows or movies, whatever.

And one of the things that I used to get frustrated with is I might have a good recommendation in mind, but I know that my mom's not going to like the amount of cussing. If there's the F bomb in there too much. She has zero interest in it. She's like, I just don't want to listen to it. And I couldn't understand how you would let a word get in the way of enjoying a movie that was good.

then I started thinking, about how, the other day, I didn't even get through the first chapter of a book and I shut it off. And I was like, this is terrible. I don't want to listen to a character talk to another character like this. there's a million books. I don't need to finish this.[00:14:00] 

And it hit me that even though I thought it was good and I could tolerate the language, my mom couldn't enjoy something like that. And I wanted her in the past to just get over it. And now I realize no, if I'm not enjoying it, I'm not enjoying it. so there's not one rule of thumb about. What we want to do, what we're okay seeing, what we're okay hearing and what we're not. And at the end of the day, if any one person says, I actually don't really have an interest in drinking. Yes, I'm 21. it's just not my thing. It shouldn't be like, oh, why not? as if there has to be a reason.

Erin: Right. Like, I'm not actually interested in shooting up heroin today. It's just not my thing. And nobody says, well, why's that?

Cinnamon: Right. What, what is that saying? Somewhere, like.Alcoholics are the only addicts that people expect not to do the drug.

Erin: Or that they expect an explanation as to why they [00:15:00] don't. I don't. 

know what the saying is, but You know what I'm getting at, right? Yeah. yeah, I just, think that we don't spend enough time creating space for people who just simply don't want to drink. Whether there is the existence of a history of addiction in the family or not, I It is equally acceptable to not drink without asking why.

Cinnamon: And one thing that I have seen a lot lately that is giving me hope is the number of restaurants that are coming up with mocktail menus. I will be a patron of a restaurant ten times over if they have a mocktail menu. And it's not just for the pregnant ladies, it's not just for the DDs, it's not just for the alcoholics.

It's because those drinks taste better.

Erin: They do taste better. Except my brain can't tolerate it because when I try to drink mocktails It's so weird. My brain says, oh, this is booze and I get weird. Remember when we were out to dinner with Conrad and Vance and I was like, Are you sure this doesn't have [00:16:00] alcohol in it? Because I felt real woozy. But really it was probably because I was exhausted. Anyway,

Cinnamon: The psychological warfare, 

Erin: It's like squirrel. Here we go. Going down that rabbit hole. I think too, and you mentioned this already that I do want to say to our caller is in the world of don't be a pussy, It is completely reasonable to say, no, thank you.

And this goes back to boundaries. if you haven't heard the boundaries episode, it's called setting the line. Please go listen to it because boundaries are for us, not for others. If people don't like the choices you make, that is their problem, not your problem. So do not succumb to the peer pressure.

Of what this culture can bring up. we have the right to make our own choices with our own bodies, with choices that we make in terms of, you know, are we going to put substances in them or not? And we also get to use caution and judging our feelings and making it something that it isn't like a response to [00:17:00] trauma.

Cinnamon: earlier today before you and I jumped on, I was on the phone with our previous guest, Chris Perry, and we were talking. Talking about boundaries. We were talking about this issue specifically, which is so funny. Cause I told him when I called him, I'm like, I know it's Saturday morning, which is why I'm calling you.

 I wanted to call you yesterday at six o'clock, but I knew you're racing with your wife. And I knew if I didn't call today, I'd have to wait till Monday. Cause tomorrow's the day you hike with your wife. And he thought, started laughing. He thought that was so funny. Cause I remembered, and I'm like, I'm respecting your boundaries.

but we were, talking about how, If, I set a boundary and say, don't come in my yard, and then you're at my front door, I don't get to say, well, they didn't respect my boundary, so what am I gonna do? I'm just gonna invite them in for tea. no, I don't get a free pass there.

they're for me to hold up. And one thing that I have absolutely noticed spending as much time in the firehouse or surrounded by law enforcement or whomever, is the way that you get treated about your [00:18:00] choices is oftentimes based on the confidence that you have about your choice.

Erin: Say it again for those in the back. 

Cinnamon: how I get treated about my choices ultimately is affected and can come down to how I act about my choices, how I communicate my choices. if I stand strong in my determination and don't give a flying fuck what you have to say, the nitpicking, the, poking and jabbing. doesn't really last that long because it's not as fun.

But if you have somebody who is full of self doubt and lacks confidence in why they're deciding that, and it's Hey, I'm not going to drink. And waiting to see,I'm not going to drink. You want to hit me right here? If you want to hit me right here, like I can tolerate it. so if I act like I'm afraid of what you think, I'm setting myself up to be more prey like for those attackers that like to play those games, but if I'm like, I don't drink [00:19:00] because I don't want to be stupid. I don't like not being in control 

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: and that's the end of it. 

Erin: or even more honest is, I don't drink because I don't want it to be a problem that I have to resolve later down the line. 

Cinnamon: Yeah, 

Erin: So I choose to remain abstinent. 

Cinnamon: don't need that as a solution that eventually turns into a problem. I have other solutions 

Erin: Precisely. Thank you, Caller. Thank you for having the courage to call in. Thank you for, Taking the time to be curious. I think that is where the gold star belongs in the curiosity, having the courage to call and just inquire about it because really I think that is one of the hardest first steps is being curious and asking the question.

so hopefully we said something to you that landed, that stood out, that was supportive and also for everybody else. that might be questioning this or, curious about this particular situation.

Cinnamon: and [00:20:00] I say kudos for having the level of self awareness to even think about this And then second, to being so courageous to go as far as calling the hotline and asking so you can be confident in your decision.there's a hundred million reasons why. Drinking doesn't have to be your thing and Erin and I will be the first two to tell you that you can be just as entertaining and live an amazing, joy filled, fun filled life without it because we're doing it.

Erin: We're doing it. I also think I'm much more entertaining now because

Cinnamon: You're conscious. 

Erin: All right. I'm conscious. Right. 

Cinnamon: I'm not like 

Erin: Right. 

Cinnamon: out. I'm not passed out.