Hotline Caller: The Forgotten First Responder

EP 21- The Forgotten First Responder

00:00:00 VO: It's kind of like being blindfolded, having all of these auditory things that you're trying to navigate and give meaning to. I haven't thought about it like that.

00:00:12 VO: I imagine it would amplify that anxiety in a person to be hearing that and not really knowing what it is, kind of like how they put those sounds in, intentionally in a horror movie. 

00:00:23 VO: Dispatchers are the forgotten first responders. People tend to forget that we are there when trauma is unfolding, we are there when the guns are going off and the background shots are being fired. We are there for the full step of the way. 

00:00:40 VO: It's to allow the dispatcher's voice to be heard, you know, to be put out there as much as we've been putting out the law enforcement, the fire service, and also to maybe give a new perspective on what they're up against. Maybe you just don't know.

00:01:04 Cinnamon: It's the first responder. The first to get the call. The first on scene. Greeted by God knows what. Pushed beyond the limits that they don't even set. Then what happens? You're listening to After the Tones Drop. We're your hosts. I'm Cinnamon, a first responder trauma therapist who founded our practice after seeing the need for specialized care following a local line of duty death. 

00:01:31 Erin: And I'm Erin. I'm a first responder integration coach.

00:01:35 Cinnamon: We help first responders receive transformational training, therapy and coaching. 

00:01:41 Erin: Now we come to you to explore, demystify and destigmatize mental health and wellness for first responders. 

00:01:50 Cinnamon: Our show brings you stories from real first responders, the tools they've learned, the changes they've made and the lives they now get to live.

00:02:05 Cinnamon: A quick heads up before we start. We want to acknowledge that some of the content we discuss on our show can be triggering for some listeners. Some of our episodes may touch upon themes like traumatic experiences, PTSD, suicide, and line of duty deaths. We understand that these topics are sensitive and might evoke difficult emotions. If you are currently struggling with your mental health or have experienced traumatic events recently, listen with caution. You may consider taking periodic breaks or skipping the episode altogether. We want to thank you for joining us today. Your dedication to serving our community is inspiring and we're here to support you in any way that we can.

00:02:46 Cinnamon: Now if you're ready to proceed, let's begin. 

00:02:49 Cinnamon: We're having an exciting new episode today, something that we haven't done before. So, we've had lots of requests to talk about the experience of dispatchers actually several times.

00:03:01 Erin: Yeah, or people saying. “Hey, are you going to do something on dispatchers? Because you're hearing a lot of, what about us?”

00:03:08 Cinnamon: So, because we had that request, this is, we definitely wanted to do it. And this is the first time that we get to really focus in on that particular first responder occupation. And we were lucky enough to have actually a hotline call that is talking specifically about not only the challenges of the job, but what it has felt like to have their jobs minimized, to have their work not included in that original conceptualization of what a first responder is. And Erin and I were talking about this, what would it look like if somebody said, I'm doing this first responder thing and you know what, I'm going to go ahead and include the police. That sounds ridiculous, right? We automatically understand that they are first responders and there's not a hesitation to include. And we know that when we started doing first responder work and changing how we were talking about mental health in this, dispatchers were a second thought. And we did have to circle back around and be like, “Hey, grab those dispatchers and pull them in.” And so I think that now what we're in our 20 something episode, it seems like damn time that we started talking about dispatchers. 

00:04:31 Erin: Past damn time.

00:04:34 Cinnamon: Past damn time.

00:04:35 Erin: Yeah, if you follow any of our social media, I've been working on some dispatcher stuff. It's been showing up throughout, but we are just excited that we actually have the opportunity because of this brave hotline caller.

00:04:48 Cinnamon Well, yeah, because it's not just us sharing what we think it is literally the voice of a, I would say a traumatized and hurt, right? Like hurt dispatcher that just wants to make sure that specifically, I would say law enforcement and M service, EMS, that they understand maybe a little bit more what it's like to be in that comm center and the differences. But yet some of the similarities of what it feels like to take those calls versus like being on scene out on the road. So Erin, you want to hit us up with our recording?

00:05:25 Erin: Yeah. 

00:05:27 Caller: Dispatchers are the forgotten first responders. People tend to forget that we are there when the trauma is unfolding. We are there when the guns are going off in the background, shots are being fired. We are there for the full step of the way. And people tend to forget that we are living the nightmare as it's unfolding. And I find that people tend to say, oh, the poor police, the poor firemen, what they saw. And that is awful, what they see. But what about the dispatchers who are on the phone fighting back tears because of what they're hearing on the other end. You know, we're using our imagination of what's happening, of what we're hearing. And they don't think of that trauma that we're experiencing. You know, it's, I just, we need to think more about the dispatchers. We need to appreciate our dispatchers. More people tend to forget about how important our jobs are and how traumatic our jobs are. And, you know, we deal with everything. One police department might have handled one traumatic incident and then another department another. So that's two separate incidents. It's handled by two separate agencies. Whereas the dispatch center, like in my case, and sometimes the same dispatcher dealt with both calls, both traumatic incidences on one person or on one department. It's not spread out like how it is with different police departments or different fire departments. You know, we are there the whole steps of the way. We're on the phone with the person as their house is burning down. It's the dispatcher who is on the phone with the person that has an active shooter going on in the school, hearing the cries. They're not hearing, you know, everything in the background. We need to really start putting a more focus because I know in my case said like, "Oh, yeah, I took that call." I was on the phone with the victim and they just completely ignore what I say and then go and say, "Oh, well, poor such and so." They had to see that. And it just it makes you almost second guess. Should I really feel grief? Should I really feel trauma? Should I feel anything? And then you almost discredit what you're feeling. But then I'm like, "No, like I'm crying daily because of what I just heard. I am super affected by what I just heard. And I'm not going to let somebody discredit that." And that's what we need to focus on. We need to make ourselves important, too.

00:08:34 Erin: You know, it's pretty crazy. And this stood out to me the first time I heard it. And it stands out to me every time I listen to this recording is that, first of all, just the pain that the pain and this caller's voice is I think this is the first hotline call. We've had quite a few come through, but this is the first one that actually brought tears to my eyes that I could really feel the depths of despair and that hotline caller's voice. This is exactly why we're doing the hotline calls. So, people have that opportunity to have their voice be heard even with all the pain, with all the fear. It's just profound. But it was that part where she just says dispatchers are the forgotten first responder or something along those lines.

00:09:12 Cinnamon: Yeah. What you're describing, what I took away from that level of emotion was the desperation for people to understand. It's like, I just want you to know, I need you to know how hard this is, that this affects us in different but similar ways that we cry during the course of the day. We watch that trauma unfold. We're on that line with these people as the worst thing in their lives are happening. We hear a lot of times, fire and police may say, "we show up on somebody's worst day." And dispatchers are the ones talking to the people that are having the worst day of their life and trying to do all the things that they're responsible for. It feels like that caller just feels so misunderstood, minimized, that she just wants people to understand that this is hard too.

00:10:21 Erin: Yeah, I can't imagine the helplessness that is surrounding that particular job. Being that I, well, one, I'm a mother. I think about how would I feel if a mother called in, in desperation because their child's been injured? Being able to keep that level-headed way of being and stay in that professional atmosphere to give instructions, find out where the person is, try to calm them down. Then, of course, dispatch the firefighters, dispatch the police, dispatch whoever needs to go, give them instructions. It's like all of those things that are happening and how everything has to happen at lightning speed. I don't think I'm equipped for that. We deal with trauma all day, every day, but it's just this different level of intensity. 

00:11:09 Cinnamon: And coming at you. 

00:11:10 Erin: Coming at you right like immediately. It's like you know that you're going to pick up that phone and the odds are you're going to be handling some stuff. Now, of course, they have crank calls or accidental calls and that happens or BS calls. 

00:11:25 Cinnamon: Non-emergency. 

00:11:26 Erin: Non-emergency calls, which we hear people talk about often, like those random callers that need a ride to the hospital. You know.

00:11:36 Cinnamon: Sure. Or hey, my neighbors have their radio up too loud and it's 10 o'clock. That's an HOA issue. We don't need to call the police. 

00:11:45 Erin: Yeah.

00:11:46 Cinnamon: But the idea of what she said of living that nightmare with the caller as it's unfolding. To run back through what you said, you've got the task of staying calm yourself, trying to potentially calm down the caller, asking information and getting that information from the caller, even while they might be hysterical or focused on multiple things at once. And then you have to take that information and get it to the proper channels, whether it's police, fire, whatever, and convey to them some semblance of how to get where they're going and what they're going to encounter when they get there. 

00:12:35 Cinnamon: Yeah. And that's like seven things at once.

00:12:38 Erin: Right. Absolutely. 

00:12:46 VO: Hey there, listener. If you could ask any question or freely talk about any challenge related to being on the job and no one would know, what would you say? We are excited to share about our confidential hotline that we created just for you. Through this confidential hotline, you can leave a message sharing a success, a struggle, or simply ask a question. We will spotlight calls and offer feedback and insight from a licensed therapist and a certified coach who work exclusively with first responders. You can access our hotline voicemail by visiting afterthetonesdrop.com and clicking the voicemail tab. Additionally, you can join our mailing list if you'd like or easily follow us on Facebook and Instagram for all the most recent updates. You know the drill. Telephone, tell a friend, tell a first responder. 

00:13:51 Erin: What kind of things are they actually exposed to? I know that they're exposed to medical emergencies. 

00:13:58 Cinnamon: Sure. I think your regular motor vehicle accidents, the MBAs, I always think about trying to explain to somebody how to do CPR when they pull a toddler out of a swimming pool. So, we can think about the ones that are traumatic in an obvious way, right? Or that are hard because there's visibly people injured or maybe somebody's not going to make it. But from doing ride-alongs, I have learned that even the easy or frequent or common calls, there is elements of cumulative stress that come with that or things that they're like, “Oh yeah, it was a non-breather.” It's actually kind of a big deal, but they don't necessarily think of it that way. I was looking at the list while we were preparing for this episode of what would be maybe a more encompassing list of the things that they may be taking calls on. One thing that stood out to me was the hazmat calls or the road spells. At first, it didn't register as a big deal. But then I started thinking about the fact that they are the one person coordinating that initial response while maybe a semi-truck is overturned, the highway is covered with stuff, there's toxins in the air or that can burn. All these people who decide to get out of their car on the freeway and start meandering around and now they're getting exposed to something that nobody even knows yet what it is. How do you manage all of that and get the people where they need to be, if the other people doing what they need to do and know that if you don't do a good enough job, somebody's going to be real mad at you despite how hard you're trying. 

00:15:54 Erin: Well that's been my experience is there's always some kind of back behind the scenes comment. There's ball-busting no matter what. Cops, fire, we know how you guys do. I firmly believe that dispatch is right in the mix of all of that. We're all the best or whatnot. There's always some kind of underlying thing but what I have experienced in my own life is that if something goes wrong, it's something the dispatcher did or did not do or they didn't do something in a timely manner or whatever that looks like. 

00:16:31 Cinnamon: Presented that way. 

00:16:33 Erin: It's presented that way. I'm not saying that, yes, please let me be clear. I'm not saying that that's the truth. I'm saying it's easier to point fingers at the person that is behind the phone that often they're not the ones in the limelight if you will. You know, it's easy to point fingers in that direction and I'm not saying that it's their fault. You hear that. The point is that you hear that.

00:16:55 Cinnamon: Sure. I think sometimes the finger pointing is coming from a place of ignorance too. I'm not even just talking about fire police complaining about how something comes out. I'm talking about the news media when something goes wrong where they're saying somebody didn't do this and then everybody within that region of where that news broadcast goes out to is now thinking that dispatcher didn't do that thing, but that can be a complete misrepresentation. I want to be careful because I don't want to condemn other people, but the expectation that if my crisis doesn't turn out well and I'm mad, I am upset, I am devastated, the easiest place to point fingers is right back at those first responders. Yeah. That's not a healthy way to handle trauma.

00:17:48 Erin: No. Also, it's a deflection and coping mechanism and we understand that. We understand that grief and trauma are not linear, clean situations by any means. But yeah, these dispatchers, these first responders, they're up against the typical MBAs like Cinnamon said, all kinds of violent incidences, traffic incidences, suicidal callers, natural disasters, abuse, domestic disturbances, missing people. The list goes on and on and on. And it's incredible to me, again, that these folks can just shift from one thing to another to another to another all at one time. My first thought is like, "Well, hell yeah, it's hard." "Hell yeah, it's going to create some extreme cumulative stress, potentially PTS symptoms. And then the aftermath, because how could it not?" You know.

00:18:44 Cinnamon: Yeah. And when you think about the responsibility of having to, we just kind of said it and kept moving, but to be responsible for getting that person to either calm down or to stay calm to be able to get that information. We hear a lot how the folks on the scene are able to just move those people out of the way, like the people that maybe present as hysterical and aren't helpful. And dispatchers don't just get to move them out of the way. They actually have to get them to a place where they can give you information.

00:19:20 Erin: Yeah. They can't just be like, ma'am, call me back when you're calmed down. Right. 

00:19:25 Cinnamon: That would not work. And I think as they're doing all of this, their imagination is part of what's essential to do this. They have to be able to visualize what's happening to be able to maybe more effectively convey something to the first responders that are going on scene. But that means that their imagination is active in the sense that they are imagining the worst version of this. And sometimes, at least one time, that has got to be worse than what it actually looks like on scene.

00:20:05 Erin: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think about a horror movie. Something that they do on horror movies is they add sound effects to intensify the other screams or the bangs and that's kind of how I visualize it. Like everything is auditory.  So, I imagine it would amplify that anxiety in a person to be hearing that and not really knowing what it is, kind of like how they put those sounds and intentionally in a horror movie to amplify what it creates in the viewer.

00:20:34 Cinnamon: And then at a blindfold, it's kind of like being blindfolded, having all of these auditory things that you're trying to navigate and give meaning to. I hadn't thought about it like that, but that's a while back. Erin and I went and did a presentation and one of the people in the audience was a dispatcher. And what she wrote down on her evaluation was, some of this didn't land with me because I don't see things. I hear things. And she was talking about how can we work on those auditory traumas that may not be a visual trauma, that it's just like, I can't stop hearing this person scream. I can't stop hearing X, Y or Z. What do I do about that? And I definitely think that when we're talking about the people on the scene, we know how to treat them. We know what to do mental health wise. But when I remember first getting that, I was like, huh, what do we do when the trauma is auditory, and the images are imagined? And we had to kind of rework some of the interventions that we use to make it work for our dispatchers where they can still get effective treatment.

00:22:02 Erin: And it's very, very doable. Definitely. 

00:22:06 Cinnamon: Very doable. 

00:22:07 Erin: We kind of talked a little bit before we really started getting into this episode with some of the things that contribute to the difficulties on the job. And we've touched on it a little bit. The high stress situations and the traumatic content, which we're speaking specifically into the auditory stuff that they hear, the constant multitasking, not getting able to take a break. What were you saying about the lazy boys?

00:22:31 Cinnamon: Oh, yeah. There is not really downtime in the same ways because while you can be ready while sitting in a lazy boy, I'm still going to be in my office chair in the comm center waiting for that phone to go off. And I'm not only answering calls for one department. I'm oftentimes answering calls for multiple departments. So, then you start seeing like there is no break because even though one department may not have a call, another one does. And when that one's over, then another department has a call. And they can just like our caller says, like they don't get that same break. They're covering all the bad things that happen in their region that is much larger oftentimes than just one department's district or one agency's district. So, it doesn't match up. The police department isn't getting the same number of calls as the dispatchers. Just like the fire department, the one fire department isn't getting the same number of calls. And when we hear about that high volume, Erin, you were looking at some of those statistics about what it looks like. And I know if we have a department that has 15,000 runs a year, it's kind of a big deal. And do you remember what those numbers were? 

00:23:56 Erin: You wrote it down on your little piece of paper. 

00:23:58 Cinnamon: A fancy paper? 

00:23:59 Cinnamon: So, it says in the US annually, so per year, there's 240 million 911 calls or emergency calls. And that breaks down to 657,534 calls a day.

00:24:18 Erin: Yes.

00:24:20 Cinnamon: So, kind of going back to your list, I feel like the same things that make it difficult are also things that you have to be skilled in. And we kind of touched on this when we were saying we couldn't do this. You have to be able to work in that fast-paced environment. And you have to be able to do something with limited information. So, it would not work for us to try to bake a cake with half of a recipe. But that's what they do every day. They're figuring out what questions do they need to ask more of. They're having to process so much information. And you're making these high-stress critical decisions on the dime that can easily be life or death that can affect somebody for the rest of their lives. And like we said, there are high expectations of how they handle things. They have to remain, the expectation is for them to remain professional and calm, cool, and collected and polite.

00:25:24 Erin: Which ironically, all of those things that you're talking about right now are the same for police and fire. So, they can't go flying off the handle. Like people, some random person is going to whip out their phone and record them flying off the handle, being a human being. And next thing you know, it's national news and everybody's judging. And that's why it's so beautiful that you're saying all of this stuff. Because all I'm hearing is, wow, isn't that the same with police and fire? Handling all of these things that they can't unsee. And for dispatchers, they can't unhear and having to remain as level-headed as humanly possible while they're doing these jobs. It's like all the same traits and characteristics and abilities across the board. Whether you're on a phone or on the street.

00:26:15 Erin: Hey there, listener. It's me, Erin. I'm here to share a great opportunity with you. You know, life can throw us some serious curve balls and sometimes we need a little extra help dealing with all the craziness. That's why I am thrilled and excited to tell you about First Responder Conferences that focus on mental health and wellness. First Responder Conferences presents a multifaceted two day seminar and networking event for improving first responder mental health and wellness through discussions on the current issues constantly faced by first responders. These conferences will provide awareness, resources, and tools to combat post traumatic stress, depression, suicide, addiction, stress, and overall wellness. These conferences are not your typical snooze fest department training. They are engaging, impactful, and full of valuable topics and resources. First RC brings in experts, psychologists, and fellow first responders who have been through it all and they create an environment of understanding and compassion. At these conferences, you'll hear everything from stress management techniques to coping strategies that can help you stay resilient. 

00:27:23 Erin: We're breaking down the stigma around mental health people. There's no shame in seeking help or talking about what you're going through. In fact, it's a sign of strength and self-awareness. These conferences are creating a safe space for first responders to open up, share their experiences, and learn from one another. And you know what else? These conferences aren't just for first responders. They're also for the families because let's face it, they're the backbone of support by including families in this journey. We're building stronger, more resilient communities. So whether you're a first responder, a family member, or just someone who cares about the wellbeing of our local heroes, I encourage you to check out these incredible conferences at firstrc.org. That's the number one, strc.org. Let's get rid of the stigma. Let's talk about mental health and let's support our first responders like never before. Join me and Cinnamon, along with many other incredible folks, at First Responder conferences, and let's make a difference together. Stay strong, stay healthy, and be safe. Remember, you're not alone in this journey. Let's do this.

00:28:41 Cinnamon: One of those other commonalities that I think can take a toll across the board is what I would call minimal closure. How many times do we hear about somebody experiencing something traumatic and then they have no idea how it ends? They don't know who lives, they don't know who dies, they just have to move on to the next thing. And when you don't know what that outcome is of the call, obviously it can leave you wondering. It leaves that open for you to ponder. And all at the same time, you're supposed to be able to shift gears so rapidly to handle the next call with the same level of care and concern because this is somebody else's crisis now that was equally as traumatic for that caller as the last one. Right? So I don't get to know what happens. I just got to walk through that with the person who suffered, but I don't know how it ends. And that's over and over and over. And it's something that I see them just get used to. Like they accept it, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't affect them.

00: 29:58 Erin: Definitely. And so this episode isn't to like enroll folks into seeing that everyone's appear, although that would be a lovely thing. But it's to allow the dispatcher's voice to be heard, to be put out there as much as we've been putting out the law enforcement, the fire service, and also, like Cinnamon said in the very beginning, to maybe like give a new perspective on what they're up against. Maybe you just don't know. And for our listeners who aren't first responders, I'm sure there's a lot of shocking moments that they hear when they listen to our show that they had no idea. And so I think it's about changing the culture as a whole in terms of how we categorize our first responders, the expectations that we have of them by, like you said, Cinnamon, the media, by people that just really don't get it. You know, I think it's important that we make sure that we highlight the fact that these folks, all of them are human beings too. And we have very high expectations on how they handle situations which 98% of us will never see or ever experience. And probably would not handle well. 

00:31:08 Cinnamon: No, no. You have to have so much exposure to this stuff to be able to handle it like a pro. And that means that you've had to listen to a lot of horrible things to be able to listen to horrible things and stay calm. 

00:31:29 Yeah. Absolutely.

00:31:30 Cinnamon: And along the same lines of like some of the skills that it takes, we're also seeing the same mental health concerns that come out of the work that they're doing because of the level of demand and what's demanded of them and the stress that they're enduring. So you're going to see post-traumatic stress. You're going to see that burnout as well as like the acute stress right after that phone call. The anxiety that comes with like the hypervigilance. Now, I always say like, I don't know all the terrible things that can happen to somebody. But if you do a first responder job, you're way more privy to that. And I like to use the phrase, the general population, we play the odds where we see first responders play the tragedy because they know the possibility of how bad it can be, even though it's not likely to go wrong. If it does go wrong, they know what that looks like. And I think that applies to dispatchers as well. Like they are not even just getting the exposure of like what one department does, but they're getting exposure of what a whole region may do. And they're even just as, if not more wise of all of the terrible things that either one can happen to the human body or two that humans can do to humans. And so it is going to make you more thoughtful and more hesitant to let people that you care about do things willy nilly.

00:33:01 Erin: What you just said, it was like officer Sean Woods, episode 13, even said something like for the longest time before body cams, we were the wall between what happened and what the rest of the population saw and experienced and that we were that barrier. And yeah, and that's kind of what I thought of when you were just sharing that they come up against the same stuff. The compassion fatigue, absolutely that we hear about so often.

00:33:28 Cinnamon: Yeah, that physical mental exhaustion just from hearing all of the terrible things that happen to people. I mean, nobody calls 911 because they won their summer league baseball game. You know, like, hey, just wanted you to know. 

00:33:44 Erin: I don't know. Maybe kids do the darndest things. They learn how to use 911. They're like, what? 

00:33:49 Cinnamon: I need some help with my homework. I did hear that. And I don't remember the story well enough, but I remember reading somewhere that a kid had been told, if you need help, call 911. And he was home alone and needed help with his homework. And he called 911.

00:34:06 Erin: That's sweet. I feel like I've heard that too. Like maybe it was just something that went around or maybe it was, I don't know, maybe it was fake. Who knows?

00:34:15 Cinnamon: Which one of the social media and it was one of those like click bait things. But either way, like, wouldn't that be lovely to think that 911 dispatcher got a little bit of a reprieve and was able to help somebody do their math homework? 

00:34:27 Erin: No, I know that would be sweet. 

00:34:31 Cinnamon: So kind of going back to some of those similarities, like there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't also have nightmares or have difficulty sleeping or you get home from a shift and you're so wired. How do you just wind down and go to bed? A lot of people use substances to be able to do that.  I have a cocktail when I get off work or four to be able to take the edge off to put myself to sleep. The idea of like, who do you talk to about this stuff? Right. There's nobody else is going to get it except for another dispatcher. And we definitely encourage people to have friends outside of their occupation. But then either you're not talking about it or you're trying to talk about it to people that don't understand and then it's just going to feel very isolating.

00:35:25 Erin: With all of things you just said, the thing I was thinking about that the caller said was they'll point out that this caller said that will point out like, yeah, I was the one that took that call. And it kind of gets like it's an afterthought. Like it doesn't get acknowledged. And what she said was like, it makes me second guess if my trauma is even valid. And boy, that is a doozy. Like, am I making this up? Is it really as bad as it feels inside? And I want her to know as well as every other dispatcher that might be listening, it is valid. The things that you're experiencing are real and it is happening and just like every other tool we've given anybody else, this qualifies for you and any other human being in the world, you know, making sure that you are getting a reasonable level of self-care, whether it's talking to someone, a clinician, a friend, somebody that you can trust, you know, making sure that you're getting adequate sleep when you can, you know, getting into those mindfulness and relaxation practices that we've talked about before. But most importantly, like if you feel like something's off, it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to say I'm struggling and that feels really important for me to say.

00:36:43 Cinnamon: You know, the caller, it seemed like what I heard from the caller was I'm doing this. I'm calling this anonymous line, this hotline, because I want people to know that our jobs are important and I want them to know how traumatic they are. And so when you have those two sides of like, I want other people to know, because when they don't know, they say things that make me second guess what I'm actually experiencing. And if it is me being like dramatic, if I cry over this or if I feel so exhausted when I get off work, I just crash. 

00:37:22 Cinnamon: Yeah. And making themselves important too, right? Like that was the other part of it. Like she was even advocating to her peers, like we get to use our voices to make ourselves important. And while yes, all those self-care things are essential and that is one thing that is absolutely in our control. I don't want to end this episode and not mention one step up from that self-care is that institutional care and making sure that if you are running that show, that there are things in place that make this a little bit easier. Right. So that there are those peer teams that you do have those resources, whether it be therapists or EAP programs that you encourage your people that when they are off, they are off. 

00:38:19 Cinnamon: One thing I've seen some departments do is rotate their shifts. So instead of aligning it with seniority, it's more of like we're wanting to keep everybody healthy and we don't want you to have to go through the trenches for however many years before you get to the top of the pyramid and maybe get on first shift where most people are at work. And there's not a lot of things going wrong that may increase the volume in the second or third shift, right? Like in the afternoon, evening or overnight. But that we're creating ways to do this job that acknowledge the difficulty and the trauma exposure and how we have to take steps both as individuals and as systems to support our people. And that's across the board. That's not just dispatchers. It really is like an individual can only do so much if they don't have that institutional support that prioritizes their mental health and they're in an environment that takes this portion of their work seriously.

00:40:28 Erin: Definitely. Bingo. So, to wrap this up, we want to say to our caller, we hear you. We see you. We can't thank you enough for taking the step to be the voice for dispatchers to get this conversation started, to allow us to have the opportunity to speak about this and kind of educate and talk about what it might look like for you all. I mean, this is a beautiful step and a really awesome direction. 

00:41:00 Cinnamon: This feels like that caller allowed us to have her back. 

00:41:03 Erin: I agree. Yeah. So, keep being brave, caller. I hope this allowed you to see that you are supported in many ways and I hope the rest of the listeners, maybe they learned something that they didn't know. 

00:41:18 Cinnamon: And we do think that your job is important. 

00:41:22 Erin: Yeah. So everybody be safe out there and we'll see you soon.

00:41:28 Cinnamon: Bye. 

00:41:32 VO: Thank you for joining us for today's episode of After the Tones Drop. Today's show has been brought to you by Whole House Counseling. As a note, After the Tones Drop is for informational purposes only and does not constitute for medical or psychological advice. It is not a substitute for professional health care advice, diagnosis or treatment. Please contact a local mental health professional in your area if you are in need of any assistance. You can also visit afterthetonesdrop.com and click on our resources tab for an abundance of helpful information. And we would like to give a very special thank you and shout out to Vens Adams, Yeti and Sanda for our show's music.