The Zen Enforcer: With Vance Row

EP50: The Zen Enforcer

00:00:00 Vance: In my police career, I had three significant injuries. So I was immobilized completely. It was around that time that I had actually tried yoga for the first time. I think I was just supposed to stumble into it. At the time, that I did, was a very tumultuous time for me in my own head. It's going through my own mental health struggles. I was drinking an incredible amount of alcohol on a daily basis. I like to tell people, look at me, I don't look like whatever you think yoga is supposed to look like, but I just want people to understand it. 

00:00:30 Vance: Listen, anybody can do it. Not about being especially bendy or anything like that. It all comes down to getting out of your head, getting back into your body, and being able to self-regulate your own central nervous system. I don't love that word to vibe. I like the word thrive. So the whole idea is, I don't want you just to survive your career like you're literally coming to the end, crippled, and then you get into retirement and yeah, you'll collect the paycheck for a little while, but that's it. Get rid of that career and then live like 40 more years.

00:01:09 Cinnamon: It's the first responder, the first to get the call, the first on scene, greeted by God knows what, pushed beyond the limits that they don't even set. Then what happens? You're listening to After the Tones Drop. We're your hosts. I'm Cinnamon, a first responder trauma therapist. 

00:01:30 Erin: And I'm Erin. I'm a first responder integration coach. 

00:01:35 Cinnamon: Our show brings you stories from real first responders, the tools they've learned, the changes they've made, and the lives they now get to live.

00:01:53 Erin: Quick heads up before we start. We want to acknowledge that some of the content we discuss on our show can be triggering for some listeners. Some of our episodes may touch upon themes like traumatic experiences, PTSD, suicide, and line of duty deaths. We understand that these topics are sensitive and might evoke difficult emotions. If you are currently struggling with your mental health or have experienced traumatic events recently, listen with caution. Now, if you're ready to proceed, let's begin.

00:02:26 Erin: Well, I hope everybody put on their yoga pants today. We're gonna do a little stretching of the brain and body on today's episode with our awesome guest, Vance Row. We've been looking forward to having him on. Let me just say this. I am a fan of yoga, Vance, I will tell you. And I often invite our clients to use it as a practice, a mind-body practice to get out of their head, get into their body, focus on their breathing, and they all look at me like I'm crazy. Like, you want me to do what? 

00:03:01 Erin: So I am so excited to have one, a man, and I know men do yoga, but also a first responder man who does yoga and very passionate about it and has seen so many benefits and what can be created through that mind and body work. So thank you for taking the time to join us today. Can't wait to hear what you have to say. I will say that we tend to ask our guests just some easy questions before they come on. And one of the things we like to ask is the three best words to describe our guests. And his response was driven, caring, and extra large. 

00:03:44 Cinnamon: I saw that. And I was like, that is hilarious because obviously we can't tell your size just from the computer. But when we get to Maryland and we see you, we will assess if you have accurately identified yourself for how like Amazon will say, you typically based on this, you're gonna need this size. I'm just gonna consult with Amazon and see if you cleared yourself the appropriate size. 

00:04:10 Vance: Right. That'll be the first question when I get to see you in person. Was I accurate or not? 

00:04:14 Cinnamon: I will have a tape measure. Do not be uncomfortable.

00:04:17 Vance: All right. All right. 

00:04:19 Erin: I actually just pulled a tape measure out of my purse. I don't know. Why did, you never know when you're going to need it? But yeah, I was, like, is extra large, like personality or body type? 

00:04:29 Vance: Oh no, it's like stature. So at current, I am six foot four in height. And then I play somewhere between 260 and 270 pounds, depends on the day. And this is a guy that in college, I was an offensive lineman and so I played at 330 pounds. I was a big fella. It's not that I'm real small now, but yeah, I like to tell people is when the yoga stuff goes along, like, look, look at me. I don't look like whatever you think yoga is supposed to look like. And if you scroll Instagram, it's got to look different than me, but I just want people to understand it, listen, anybody can do it. And if that practice comes to you, it'll meet you wherever you are. 

00:05:11 Vance: So my nutshell is to why I'm so passionate about it. I certainly got a tremendous amount of mental and physical benefits from it. That's why I decided that I wanted to teach, because I didn't think that I was going to be able to grab people and be like, let's go to a studio. So I was like, I better learn how to do it, so I can go to them and I can teach them wherever they are. 

00:05:27 Erin: Yeah. If you build it, they will come. Or in your case, I will build it and bring it to you. Yeah. 

00:05:36 Vance: Yep. 

00:05:36 Cinnamon: I may not have been able to fully appreciate what you just said as far as not being the traditional visual that comes to mind, but I just recently started with a new yoga studio here in Cincinnati. And my teacher is male, and he's not very flexible. And it is so comforting to not have the Instagram yoga teacher as my own. 

00:06:02 Vance: Right. 

00:06:03 Cinnamon: Right? It takes away a lot of that pressure of perfection of, this is what you're supposed to look like, you have to do it gracefully or don't do it at all, all that stuff. I feel way more comfortable watching somebody teach me that isn't that and is more realistic like me. There's a lot of things that I could do when I was 18 and I can't do today and I don't want to get body shamed for it. 

00:06:28 Erin: Yeah, especially from yourself. 

00:06:30 Vance: Right. And we're probably our worst critic of all. 

00:06:32 Cinnamon: Absolutely. 

00:06:33 Erin: Definitely. 

00:06:34 Cinnamon: Because nobody else is watching us. Everybody's trying to not die on their own yoga mat. The last thing they're doing is watching to see my flexibility or if my warrior two is straight. 

00:06:44 Erin: I'm sure you're great. 

00:06:45 Vance: Their judgments. 

00:06:46 Erin: So Vance, you are currently with Ocean City Emergency Services, but then you have Yoga Rescue. And as you just said, you're going around and bringing this tool to first responders and military?

00:06:58 Vance: The whole reason that I got into yoga teaching is I wanna teach people that are like me. Now, do I teach regular studio classes? Yes. Open to anybody. I just wanna get people that may not have thought about doing something like this, may be interested. And so that's why I post pictures that I do, that's why I talk the way I do. And I just want it to be accessible to anyone that wants to try it. I'll certainly do Zoom options for those people that are not close by to me. So whatever it takes. 

00:07:27 Erin: Well, I love that. And obviously we're very committed to changing conversations about anything that has to do with mental and physical health. So the fact that you're so passionate to help a bunch of hard-headed folks that tend to wanna be defiant. It's great that you have broken through this little barrier to present this as a gift to others to heal. And you came upon this though after 20 some odd years in law enforcement, right? 

00:07:56 Vance: I do. I like to say that everybody was sitting in their chief's office like 20 plus years ago and that chief is like, why do you want to work here? And where do you see yourself in 10, 20 years? And I got to tell you that my answer would not have been yoga teaching. I don't even know that I knew what it was at that point. And I like to say that it actually found me rather than I found it. And I think I was just supposed to stumble into it at some point. And at the time that I did was a very tumultuous time for me in my own head. I was going through my own mental health struggles. I was drinking an incredible amount of alcohol on a daily basis. 

00:08:35 Vance: Finally, my wife says something to me. She confronts me about it. She shows me some videos of how it was acting. And I didn't make a decision that day, but I was like, we're not having this conversation ever again. So I'm just not going to drink for the next 24 hours. And that 24 hours just started to roll. And now we are four years and a couple months later, still just not doing it. 

00:08:58 Vance: Now as far as the yoga part goes, I told you that I'm not a small fella. And I never wanted to go to a yoga studio because I'm like, oh my God, these two are gonna laugh me out of the room. And plus folks, I sweat, like a lot.

00:09:11 Cinnamon: Glandular issues. 

00:09:13 Vance: Right. A buddy of mine that I used to work with used to say that I can sweat eating ice cream and that's probably accurate.  So I went to a yoga studio for the first time and I was like, this is pretty incredible. And then I went back three times in a week, maybe four. And within the first 30 days of practicing, I told my wife and I was gonna teach this to people like me. And I just was like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And sometimes I guess the universe speaks to you and it's whether or not you try to hit mute or you follow that path. And it's interesting if you let your intuition take over and it kind of, you know, takes you where you're supposed to be, not necessarily where I want to be. 

00:09:57 Vance: And it's just opened all these special doors. And now I'm very passionate about the idea of people not being where I was at a point and where I was at a point and I won't get into the whole backstory and things like that. But I had a very poor work environment, a lot of hours working. My coping mechanism was alcohol. Listen, that is all over the place in law enforcement and the fire service and really in all of it. I wasn't treating myself very well. And that's what I've started to learn kind of in recovery is that you have to put yourself number one, which is something that I never understood before. And I feel like when I go and talk about it, when I talk about self care and actually taking care of your mind, body, spirit, that people are like, oh my God, you know, people grab me after class and they're like, everything you say, I have it. 

00:10:53 Vance: And I'm like, all right, let's talk a little bit more. And usually start to maybe find one thing that we can change. It's not, you know, you don't have to change it all in one day. Let's just, you know, small, subtle, incremental changes. Because if you, if I look back, here we are in 2024. If you go back to this time in 2019, I'm a completely different person. Just mad all the time. Probably blackout drunk three or four times a week. Very unhappy. And I think other people were starting to see it. It wasn't for me anymore. So I'm glad she confronted me. It was a difficult conversation to have. I think she took a huge risk, which I didn't appreciate for maybe a year or two after the fact. But we've always respected, kind of, what each other says. And if it's a, we mess around with each other sometimes and we'll be like, well, listen, we need to talk.

00:11:44 Vance: And it'll be like, look, you bought this kind of milk, but I really wanted this kind of milk, but this was different. This was, we need to talk and you're a mess and you need to not be a mess. So now you have this big fella that's a yoga guy.

00:12:02 Cinnamon: Can I ask a question? 

00:12:04 Vance: Yeah. 

00:12:05 Cinnamon: Cause I think now would be an appropriate time for an expansion on it. But I can't even fathom what it would be like to have to see a video of my behavior when I was actively drinking. And so what was that like? 

00:12:29 Vance: Oh, it was deeply embarrassing. So I remembered parts of it, but I mean, like, I knew I was in a pool. And full disclosure. You know, I'll certainly talk, there's nothing off limits. We'll talk about whatever, the video that she shared me. So it was November of 2019 and we were on a stay-cation with some of our friends. And we probably started playing beer pong at probably like 11 o'clock in the morning, which is fun, you know, and when I was in college, I was, I mean, I was pretty good at it. I don't remember anything in, that afternoon. It's, ‘cause I don't, I can't have a couple of drinks and just have fun. I am not satisfied until like, all the booze is gone. And I can't explain that. I just, I can't control it. So I need to just not have it. 

00:13:15 Vance: So what ended up happening was, the pool was closed and I, so the video is me pulling the pool cover off, jumping in the pool, having my own little private dance party. And I mean, just acting like an idiot. And I think she felt compelled to do it because if she said something like, I need to tell you what you were doing, I'd be like, nah, I wasn't doing it. What, didn't look that bad. But this is it. This is the video I shot on my iPhone. You know, this is absolutely the truth. This is absolutely what was going on. And again, she was incredibly brave and strong to be able to do something like that to confront me. And I think I just needed the wake-up call. I don't know that I knew, I don't know that I knew I needed that wake-up call until I actually got it. And I don't know that I totally appreciated it right at that moment, but that moment ends up changing so many things in my life.

00:14:11 Vance: So, I mean, I look at that as kind of the start date. And then as things come, I jump in on them as opportunities come, I jump in. I do love the yoga stuff. I certainly jump in on a bunch of different training classes. I try to teach it as much as I can. And yeah, it just… life's a lot different now than it was five years ago. 

00:14:36 Cinnamon: So it kind of all started with that video. Like, had she not taken that risk–

00:14:42 Vance: Right. 

00:14:42 Cinnamon: That could have easily backfired. We may not have met you or you may not even be here right now, given what you were kind of going through.

00:14:51 Vance: I just want to add one more component to that. And it is that it had only been a couple of months prior to that, that through all the things that I was going through, that I actually told her that I was thinking about killing myself and I actually had a plan to do so. And I finally got scared enough to say something to her, like something is wrong with me. And it took a police officer that I used to work with, that he was 27 years old at the time and his suicide convinced me that I needed to do something. But the drinking kept going for a little while until she confronts me there. And that's what really turned the corner for me. I sought out people that I knew didn't drink that used to. And I would be like, what worked for you? What did you guys do? 

00:15:41 Vance: If you fast forward now into 2024, we actually have a group of us that meet twice a month just to support one another. And there are mixed stages of recovery. There's people that have been in recovery for 20 years. There's people that have been in recovery for 20 minutes. It doesn't matter. It's just that, listen, I think I might have an issue and what do I do about it? This is just a way that we can support one another. And that's really what it's all about. That's, you know, when I signed up to be a police officer, I had been in team sports for a lot of my life. I mean, like football was the big one. Obviously it was 11 people had to do, we all had to work towards a common purpose. So if 11 of us didn't do the same thing together, we would never do well. 

00:16:30 Vance: I thought that's what I was getting into in law enforcement and in small pockets. I certainly had that, but I got to tell you that there are some people that are, law enforcement that probably don't belong there and I'm not sure why they got in it in the first place. And those people started to make just life difficult. And you always want to support one another, support your friends, support everyone of your colleagues. Again, that's what I thought I was getting into. And it was just sad to see it not like that in some circumstances. 

00:17:01 Erin: Yeah, but on the other side of all of this, you found the world of recovery, you had this wherewithal to say, wow, this really is a problem after seeing the video, as opposed to being like, screw you, that's dumb, and drinking more. Like, because that is a scary thing to face, especially when that is your one thing that's been working, and now here's your wife saying, this is probably not gonna be working for you either, pal. Look at this video. So, it almost tells me that you were kind of like, I just needed that one more nudge to tell me that this wasn't gonna work anymore. And then you created this community that you always wanted. 

00:17:38 Vance: Yeah. 

00:17:39 Erin: Go ahead. Sorry.

00:17:40 Vance:  I knew there was a problem. There was no way that I could say that I didn't think there was. And I had actually quit drinking multiple times and quit for the weekend or proved to myself that I wasn't really in alcohol. But the long and short of it was, I absolutely had a problem because, look, if I'm not gonna drink for the weekend that first day that I come back, I'm going to drink it all. And it just, this was the decision that I just needed to make. And my friends used to ask me, you think you'll ever drink again? No, I can't. It just… it's a, another very good friend of me, friend of mine will equate it to a shellfish allergy, like, Hey, I can't have shrimp. It'll swell up my throat and then I'll die. Well, do you want a beer? No, because that's what it'll do. And it's going to lead to a bad place.

00:18:31 Vance: And I got to tell you that my wife had said stuff before to me about, she's like, look, I can't, I, I'm afraid for your job. I don't want to babysit you and stuff like that. But the video was just, it's irrefutable evidence that, you know, I can't deny that. And so yeah, that was really the turning point. 

00:18:51 Cinnamon: What you just said, I had this little light bulb go off, right? Because I think a lot of times what we hear around alcohol, either in the first responder communities or otherwise is, I'm the one drinking. I'm not doing it to anybody else. It's not affecting anybody else. And so when you are in the throes of that and you have that mindset, you are completely blind. You have a blind spot where the impact plays out on those loved ones. Right? So in your... You're like, I'm drinking. I'm the one... It's not affecting you. But for your wife to say, I worry about if this is gonna affect your employment. I worry about having to babysit you or you hurt yourself or some harm comes to you. 

00:19:44 Cinnamon: So it's almost like that constant worry, even if nothing ever happens. She is now aware of what you, somebody saying, you know, I'm just drinking. Not having seen that footage, but that was her experience. And so she had to be able to show it to you because there's no real equivalent way for you to become aware. And it probably also added that layer of like believability when it comes to how it was impacting the people around you and how unavailable you became, even if you were still in that same space. 

00:20:24 Vance: For sure. Hey, you know, the one thing that I do want to share, and this is, this isn't a time since, you know, when I, after I stopped drinking, I've had this thought multiple times where, you know, I'm sitting in, I'm talking to somebody and we're into, you know, any kind of social engagement. It's maybe we've been there for like three or four hours and I'm really connecting with somebody and you really feel like I get you and they get you. And I wonder to myself, how many of these did I lose? How many of these do not, do I not remember? Because I mean, if I made it two hours into a social engagement, I was probably not in the same head space, not in a space where I was going to remember anything anymore. 

00:21:04 Vance: So, yeah, it just became, I always like to say that my switch was broken, that everybody like normal people, their switch, they start to feel drunk and their switch kind of turns to off and they slow down and mine's broken because I'll start to go faster. And I, and there's no amount that'll, like crunch that thirst. 

00:21:28 Cinnamon: And there's no emergency break that somebody can pull for you. You have to speed down the hill and crash head first into the tree. It's unstoppable. Otherwise, I'm sure lots of… your wife and others would have hit that. 

00:21:46 Vance: Oh, 100%. I'm just so thankful and so grateful that she took that step. And it just put me on this whole different path. So when I look back and I, you know, wonder to myself, all right, what would it have taken for somebody? And I can tell you that like, I would just walk around, I just be mad all the time. And like the littlest things would set you off. And I wish that somebody would have, like, to reach in and be like, hey, you look great. What's up with you? And it just never, like nobody was doing that. 

00:22:22 Erin: Probably because they were all feeling the same way. 

00:22:24 Vance: Right. Or, and the one thing that I say now is, you know, a lot of the class, a lot of the peer support that I go to, you know, people like just check in on one another and stuff like that. I'm like, people don't want to do that. And people don't want to do that because they don't want to hear the answer. Because if I ask you how you are and you're really not in the right place and you own cork, then, you know, these people who are responsible, like, what am I going to do with you? What am I going to do for you? Listen, I would love, if people came to me because I will find resources. And I may not know right off the top of my head, but I know an awful lot of people that you know answers at this point. And I don't want those people to struggle. And it's, you know, so I just try to share all of those things with them. 

00:23:07 Vance: For me, it's not all about yoga. Look, that's what worked for me. You know, that's where I put so much intense focus into that I don't worry about the other stuff anymore. Now, what that did for me is it started to reveal, it started to shed all these, like layers off of me that had just kind of been there for a long time. And you find this not to be hippie dippy, but you come back to this deeper sense of your true self. So the longer I go away from that date of stopping to drink, I actually get stronger. And it's also opened my eyes for a lot of other mental health things. When I'm at the pits, where I'm really in the darkest days, I really thought I was by myself. I did not think that anybody else could be messed up like me. 

00:23:56 Vance: And the truth of the matter is, the more people I talk to, the more people that reach out to me through social media or text me, it is a far bigger problem than what we're willing to, I think, admit to at this point. And look, I'm one guy. I'm not saying all these agencies have got to change, all these agencies have got to build all these programs. I just want to be somebody that, look, you're having a hard time? Text me, call me, email me. I'll at least maybe put you on the path of, have you tried this? Have you thought about this? And not everything's gonna work, but I have a number of different things that I tried this, so I do go to therapy, yoga. I like reiki an awful lot. I don't know. I have also tried acupuncture. So I tried stuff to find what I like. And that's just what worked for me.

00:24:53 Erin: It's awesome. When you got into yoga, okay, so yoga started for you. One, you haven't touched on the mental aspect of it, but also it started because you were injured, correct? And you were trying physical therapy, and I don't really know the whole backstory, but maybe you can fill us in and then kind of–

00:25:15 Vance: Yeah, sure, I'll give you some of this. So it's not that I never practiced yoga before. I had done yoga, I mean, like probably seven, eight years prior to that. So a backstory for me, you know, I go my entire football career and don't ever get seriously hurt. In my police career, I had three significant injuries. One in 2008, one in 2009. In both of those, I tore the bottom two discs in my back. And then the second time, so I was immobilized completely, like laying on my living room floor for months at a time. The second time I had surgery, it was around that time that I had actually tried yoga for the first time. And if you're familiar with beach body products, if you've ever heard of P90X, that was my first experience with yoga. And that is not relaxing at all. 

00:26:05 Erin: Oh, God, it's like soul crushing. 

00:26:07 Vance: I'm like, I'm, I'm like, you can't be serious. You can't make me do another pose. Oh my God, you're a monster. Anyway, and so like, I had seen these studios and stuff like that, but I always had this thought in my mind. And so I'm the problem. I'm telling myself, I can't go. I'm not going to fit in. That they're going to point and laugh at me. And you know how many of those things happened? Zero. 

00:26:29 Erin: No. 

00:26:29 Vance: Again, I was my own worst enemy there. In 2016, I had probably my most significant injury. I fell off my bike while I was working and I tear my patellar tendon on my left side. And so they repaired my knee. My knee is fine, but I have nerve damage as a result of either the fall. The surgery, the immobilizer, the physical therapy, I have nerve damage from something. And what that nerve damage does is it makes my left foot burn all the time. So that's unfortunately what ended my… it eventually ends my police career. And it's also why whenever you see me in flip-flops all the time, or you see me in bare feet, it's just because I haven't worn socks in seven years. 

00:27:12 Vance: Shoes bother my foot if I wear them for any length of time. So it's easier for me to be barefoot or in flip-flops. It works well, then I actually, you know, work at a beach town. So I guess it doesn't look that terribly weird to just be in flip-flops all the time. But. 

00:27:28 Cinnamon: So are you from Ocean City area? 

00:27:31 Vance: I'm not.

00:27:31 Cinnamon: The Ocean City area? 

00:27:32 Vance: So–

00:27:33 Cinnamon: So how did you end up?

00:27:35 Vance: I am borned and raised in the state of Maryland. I was born in Baltimore, not the city, but just outside of it. So the Baltimore County surrounds the entire place. So I spent the first 18 years of my life up there. In the summer times, I would come down to Hushon City an awful lot, and I would spend that with either my mom or I would spend it with, grandparents. And there's all kinds of cute pictures of me being this big, with a big mouth, a hair, and lots of little like [teens]. Anyway. 

00:28:05 Cinnamon: The dog's like–

00:28:05 Vance: Hang on one second. Hang on one second. 

00:28:09 Cinnamon: Time out. I love a good doggo interruption. 

00:28:15 Vance: Right. 

00:28:15 Cinnamon: Right. Look at it. Can you hear that excitement? 

00:28:18 Vance: So here, this is Rosie. 

00:28:19 Cinnamon: So much excitement. 

00:28:20 Vance: This is–

00:28:21 Cinnamon: Oh, Rosie. 

00:28:21 Vance: She was causing problems out there. Sounds like. So this is Rosie. 

00:28:26 Erin: Hi, Rosie. 

00:28:28 Vance: She is our nine-year-old pit bull. This is the dog that I like to show people whenever they're like, pit bulls are mean. 

00:28:36 Erin: Oh, she definitely doesn't look mean. 

00:28:40 Vance: What are you doing out there? All right. You just sit in here. Stay with us. 

00:28:44 Cinnamon: I was letting everyone know that they could not murder you. Right? Like that. 

00:28:50 Vance: No one will get to my dad. 

00:28:51 Cinnamon: Don't even. I see it in your eyes. You want to come murder us, stay away. They were just trying to deliver them. 

00:28:59 Vance: This girl sleeps 23 hours a day. So I guess we got only hour that she was awake. 

00:29:06 Erin: Well– 

00:29:07 Cinnamon: Is she an older dog? 

00:29:09 Vance: She is nine. So we have two dogs that are nine years old. And then we have one that's four. Yeah, she's just about four, sorry. 

00:29:18 Cinnamon: Cause when you say she sleeps 23 hours out of the day, it makes me think she might be more on the geriatric side. 

00:29:24 Vance: Oh no, she's done this from, like day one. All she wants to do in life. 

00:29:27 Erin: She's just a lounger. 

00:29:28 Vance: She just, she is. All she wants to do is sit on your lap and sleep. That's it. 

00:29:35 Cinnamon: Oh, so she's a pug trapped in a pit bull's butt. 

00:29:38 Vance: She does it–

00:29:39 Cinnamon: Is what you're saying. 

00:29:39 Vance: So she, so I've been gone a lot in the last week. And I came home last night and I took all three of our girls for a walk. And that's a pretty big experience in the fact that Rosie doesn't walk. She, like, forgets sometimes that she's a dog. And she's just like, I'm going to hang out at the house. I'm good. But she walked with us last night. And we like, my wife and I like to say that she accidentally walks. Like she sees the other ones, they're all excited. She's like, Oh, what's going on? And then she's like, Oh, I was tricked into a walk. 

00:30:13 Cinnamon: I've been duped again. It's that dog and those kids that are from the van. 

00:30:19 Vance: And then I got to tell you a funny story. So what, because Rosie doesn't walk a lot. So last night, you know, we're walking down the road and somebody down the street from us has this statue of a cow. It's out front of their house. And Rosie loses her mind. And she knows we're coming up on it. Like she, like three houses before we get there, she's like, and then she just starts jumping and barking at it. I would just love to crawl on her little brain and figure out what it is that she thinks that thing is. Just a giant dog. 

00:30:50 Cinnamon: A threat to murder you. 

00:30:51 Erin: Right. Yeah. Like, it's suspicious because nothing never moves. I mean. 

00:30:57 Vance: I know, right? Always looks at the exact same thing. 

00:31:00 Cinnamon: Every time. It's gotta come out when we come by. 

00:31:04 Vance: That's right. 

00:31:04 Cinnamon: Watching this all the time.

00:31:06 Vance: Sorry, we got sidetracked. 

00:31:07 Erin: That's okay. We all have dogs. 

00:31:09 Cinnamon: We like a good dairy conversation. 

00:31:11 Vance: Right. So we like all the dogs. If my wife would just say yes, I'd have 12 of them. But she keeps standing in the way. 

00:31:21 Cinnamon: Okay, so you bring, as you bring up your wife, I mean, I think you need to bring her to dinner when you come to Ocean City. 

00:31:29 Vance: Yeah, for sure. She'll definitely come. 

00:31:31 Cinnamon: So we can meet this woman, because I would love to hear the story about her decision to be like, F this, we are hitting the record button. Because I'm at my wits end and something's gotta change. But because of her taking that action and then you being willing to take further action, what do you see as the differences, like pre-yoga in your marriage and post-yoga in your marriage? 

00:32:01 Vance: So I feel like I'm far more present. Just in our relationship, I feel like we got to a point that she didn't want to hear about work anymore. And I get it. And I feel like that's all that was encapsulating my mind for a long time. And I mean, that's all I had known was to go be a police officer. And for very early on in our relationship, I told her like this, I met her mind you three weeks before I got hired. So I told her what I wanted to do. And I told her that I wouldn't be around, nights. And I think in our early relationship, our early marriage, I was working an awful lot. I was working six nights a week. And the term that she uses is summer widow. She would see me in, like the middle of May. And then like we wouldn't spend any amount of time together until like the middle of July. And I would make a lot of money, but I just wouldn't be around. Like she would literally see me for 15 minutes as I'm, like getting my uniform on and going to work.

00:33:02 Vance: I'm just far more present. I'm far more conscious of, look, this is my work time, but this is then like our time. We purposely carve out time that we can be together. So she quit her job, the middle of last year. And before she did that, we would always, so our Saturdays, that's the only day off we have together, but we would be very intentional about that, that we're not gonna do anything else. If we're gonna do something, we're gonna do it together whether that's clean the house, which is sometimes a favorite, whether let’s go shopping, whether let's go breakfast, it's something, but it's going to be together. 

00:33:38 Vance: And honestly, we can have a good time driving to the grocery store. So it doesn't matter. It just… we need to be together. And some of our, some of the worst fights we've ever had have been because of not spending time together. It's like, you miss each other to the point where it actually starts fights. 

00:33:56 Erin: Yeah. But you're also disconnected. 

00:33:58 Vance: Right. Disconnected is the best word in describing actually. 

00:34:02 Cinnamon: Well, and I can see how somebody might interpret that into rejection. 

00:34:07 Vance: Right. 

00:34:08 Cinnamon: Right. Like you're not choosing me, you're choosing something else. And while you may not think that you're rejecting someone, someone can certainly perceive it as I'm being rejected because you're choosing other things over me.

00:34:25 Vance: That’s true.

00:34:25 Cinnamon:  And then also the abandonment. So I think I'm going to, I want to pick your brain here because I think this is an opportunity. What were the kinds of things that you were thinking that justified the whole business of the summer widow? You know, when you, what thoughts made that acceptable to put work as this huge, all-encompassing priority that shoved everything out of the way? And it sounds like it wasn't even much of thought or a decision, it was just like this automatic, of course that's what's gonna happen because at this time of year, I have this obligation. But in terms of, like balance, when you're working that much, I think it would be beneficial for our listeners to hear what were the things that were happening in your life or the thoughts that you were telling yourself that made that an acceptable thing to do to the point that it got normalized and got nicknamed? 

00:35:30 Vance: First of all, that scenario still goes on. Not in our relationship. I'm telling you that I know 115 other examples where that still goes on. Okay. I didn't know any better. I only knew, when I'm going through my seasonal summers and I look up to these guys and girls that are already being police officers and I'm like, I wouldn't be like them. They work all these extra hours. Oh, so that's the expectation. That's what I'm supposed to do. And so then I was a baby comp and of course I'm gonna get the shit assignment and you're gonna be the one that gets held over because other guys are like, nah, I don't wanna get held over. So a five and six day work week at 10 hours actually becomes like 12 hours. 

00:36:24 Vance: And I mean, it just makes it worse, but again the money's good, but all right, so you want to talk about mindset? There are days where I just don't want to be there. I can tell you that I'm literally just, I don't want to say dead behind the eyes, but you know, dead behind the eyes, where like, don't ask me to think, don't ask me, just because I'm tired, I'm bitchy, and I just don't want to deal with it. Again, I just didn't know any better. This is just what had been ingrained in me. And this is what I thought I had to do. If you take like what I'm watching there, and then you take it back to what my experience was as a high school football player into a college football player, listen to me. 

00:37:10 Vance: When I go to college every August, and it's 100 degrees out, and I have to put on full pads, and my body is so sore, and I got to go, run into another 300 pounds human being. I don't want to do that. And that hurts every single time, but you know why you do it? Cause that's what you're supposed to do. I feel like I took a lot of that mentality when I went into the police world and I, you know, like, I don't want to work another night, but that's what you're supposed to do and that's, and I got to pay my dues and I've got to, you know, and I, I've got to be this, you know, so you're going to get shit on for a little while. And then at some point it becomes your time. And I mean, it took years till I even got a weekend day off. 

00:37:58 Vance: So I would always have, like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off or something like that. So I'd have to take a day off or my wife would have to take a day off just so we'd see each other. And that'd be like in the winter time, but summertime it was hard. 

00:38:11 Erin: Yeah.

00:38:12 Cinnamon: I'm listening to you and I'm thinking of a lot of the complaints that we hear about this new generation coming in who in some regards are not willing to play that game anymore. You know, and there's been a lot of backlash and I think it's interesting how people are reacting as well as how the younger generation is just like, why would you think I would tolerate that? 

00:38:42 Vance: Right. 

00:38:43 Cinnamon: Like, and so, and I heard somebody say like, the Generation X, Gen X, we taught our children in ways to not do what our parents did. And now people are complaining about them. And so we hear it obviously, when new, you know, in the police force and the fire service everywhere, when they're changing the game. And it's because we taught them a different way of being, disciplined them, communicated with them, talked about expressing our feelings differently. And now it's kind of like, I'm watching it. I don't want to say backfire, but for some people who are finding it offensive that they are no longer willing to play the game and get hazed and, you know, pay their dues. Like, you can't talk to me like that just because you are older or have more seniority. So how do you see that playing out in terms of, like breaking that trajectory that's historically been common as well as, you know, the benefits and the negatives of what it means for that generation to talk this way?

00:39:53 Vance: I remember watching people early in my career leave our police department and go to other police departments and I remember actually making fun of them. And I made fun of them because they only wanted to work 40 hours a week. I'm like, oh, that must be nice. You only want to work 40 hours a week like a banker. And because I was so deeply ingrained in, like, this job is my worth, and I have to keep showing up and I have to keep doing it. And a lot of my problems came from, like later in life being so identified and so tied to this job that I held. And it causes so many problems. And I got to tell you, that's one of the first things that I teach out to people like, oh my God, please have a hobby. Because my hobby used to be work. And if I'm bored, if I'm upset, if I'm whatever, I would just do some more work. And that is, it's so unhealthy. 

00:40:48 Vance: Now going back to your question, I don't want to, I didn't blow it off. I promise. I don't know which one's right. I don't know. Like I have a very strong work ethic. I've had it forever. I can't totally explain where it came from, but I also get it. I get that people want to work 40 hours and then they want their time off. As right they should. That's why I say, I don't know what the answer is, but what I can say is what I did for a long period of time is not a sustainable way to run a police department, a fire department. You can't just make people keep working. 

00:41:23 Vance: And I remember our chief of police had asked us, and this is now 12 years ago, he'd asked all the supervisors, commanders, everybody, what are your top three problems that you see in our police department that need fixing? This is 12 years ago, jokes. And I was like, we work our people too much. And it hasn't changed. The more I do outside of, you know, what I once did. And it's not just about, you know, like everybody's like, Oh, what do you want them to do? Do you just want them to come take yoga? 

00:41:57 Vance: No, just do something that's not work. I don't care what your thing is. I don't, listen, I don't care if you're into knitting. I don't care if you want to collect stamps, whatever, just have a thing. Anyway, so, the true answer is you really need more cops if you want to have those staffing levels. And that's a problem in and of itself because everybody's at, deficiencies right now. And as long as you run at deficiencies, it makes everybody keep working extra hours to fill the gaps. So that's not getting better. That's not getting any easier. 

00:42:35 Vance: I live in a resort town. So summer comes every year, surprisingly. And so I'm not kidding. When, and I say it like that because we had commanders that it was, summer would surprise them every summer. Like it's coming guys. It comes every 12 months. I swear, anyway. So–

00:42:58 Cinnamon: It's hilarious I'm just thinking like somebody, I'm imagining somebody looking around going, oh, we were not ready for it. Like, it's like a natural disaster. 

00:43:12 Vance: Like, holy cow. Oh my God. 

00:43:13 Cinnamon: Or hurricane. 

00:43:14 Vance: It's getting warmer out. Maybe we shouldn't wear the turtlenecks anymore. We would go to short sleeves. Oh my God. People are heading to the beach. Summer must become weird. 

00:43:26 Cinnamon: Ill-prepared. And I appreciate you mentioning the deficiency and how the communities expect coverage. They expect somebody to be available. And when you have an administration that that falls back on, you need to make sure you've got bodies and bike seats and cruiser seats and all of that. And at the same time, we have kind of created a world where it… it's a big decision to decide to become a police officer right now. 

00:44:00 Vance: Yep.

00:44:00 Cinnamon: And we used to be, I think, a much more well-respected position. And I don't think if I was a young adult right now, I would sign up for that. And so I think it's important for us to start recognizing that we really need to lay off because we are hurting ourselves.

00:44:25 Vance: For any of our friends' kids that are like, yeah, I think I want to be a police officer. I'm like, can I have 15 minutes? I'm not going to talk you out of it, but I need you to know a little bit more to it. 

00:44:40 Cinnamon: What it actually is. 

00:44:42 Vance: I need you to know that it's not totally what you see on TV. I need you to know that you're going to work a lot. You're not going to steal, you know, you're going to end some friendships. You're not going to be around all the time. You're going to get by on very little sleep. You're going to eat. I like to say like a trash can raccoon. 

00:45:01 Cinnamon: The taquitos from the Speedway. 

00:45:03 Vance: Right.

00:45:04 Cinnamon: They just roll, roll for hours.

00:45:06 Vance: Listen, I'm not gonna tell you I don't do it. I'm not gonna tell you I still won't do it sometime, but it's not good for you. 

00:45:12 Cinnamon: I haven't done it sober. 

00:45:13 Vance: Right, okay, all right, all right. 

00:45:16 Erin: Great, you want to kind of give them more perspective of you're not signing up just to play like cops and robbers here. 

00:45:22 Vance: And I don't have… so we don't have kids, oh well, other than, you know, these little four-legged ones. But I would have a hard time if they were like, Hey, I wanted to get into law enforcement, just, current climate. You know, I know what that life was. And look, I certainly learned some good lessons. I certainly am going to be connected to the police for the rest of my life. And I'm certainly going to try to give back into my brothers and sisters that are still wearing the uniform, but I know why it's a hard sell to get people in there. I mean, you make less money, you're gonna have a hard 25 years. I mean, it's great and have a pension, but you gotta get there. 

00:46:05 Vance: And if you look at statistics, when we get to our retirement date, we live like five to seven years, and that's just not worth it. Because of that level of stress, because of not taking care of your body, you should live far longer than that. So why do that to yourself when there's another option? When you can go make more money, when you can maybe work less hours, maybe you can sleep like a normal person. 

00:46:29 Cinnamon: Where you know that the odds are actually in your favor to come home alive and sleep in your own bed that night. 

00:46:34 Vance: Right.

00:46:35 Erin: Yeah. Well, there's a couple of things, sleep also, this is a nice segue actually. When you were discussing people having hobbies and you kind of made like this, like snide comment that people would give you like, what, do you want us to go do yoga? You know? 

00:46:49 Vance: Oh yeah.

00:46:50 Erin: it made me think, what do, this particular population, what do they think about yoga? What's the story and how do people perceive this as one of their options when you present it to them? That's the one. But in addition, what benefits have you noticed with your sleep because of having this particular practice in your life? So it's like a twofold question. 

00:47:16 Vance: Okay, all right, a couple of things in there. All right. So number one, I wish it was more widely accepted in the law enforcement arena. It's not yet, but they'll come when they're ready. That's kind of the way I look at it. I will tell you, some people think that I am crazy, that I've lost my mind, that I became a yoga teacher and fine. I don't care. I like me, like me or don't. I don't care. Now, as far as sleep goes, yes, it's actually, funny enough, whenever I have somebody come to the class for the first time, I usually ask them to tell me two things the next day. I said, I want to know how your body feels tomorrow. I want to know if you feel like you're more open and able to move. And I want to know how you slept last night because everybody's like, Oh, I slept better. I'm like, Oh, weird. Wonder why I asked you that. 

00:48:09 Vance: But it's all about being able to settle, settle the central nervous system back down, allowing you to process what it is that you've gone through on a daily basis, what you've gone through in maybe a couple of year basis and just trying to get you back into your body. That's what the whole practice of yoga is. And the reason that I think it's such a hard sell is that people come with their own expectations of when I say the word yoga, what that means to them. And it may not be what I'm selling. I tell everybody that is willing to come, there's gonna be some mindfulness, there's gonna be some movement, there's going to be some music. That's it. 

00:48:49 Erin: Just got to add the word tactical to it. We've already decided. 

00:48:53 Vance: We're going to wear all black tights, you know, right? We’re all gonna look like cat burglars.  

00:49:00 Cinnamon: Yes. And you just tapped in on one of the things that you said was music. And I had way back when we started the conversation, I wrote down what kind of music does he play? Because of course, I think we think of traditional yoga music that might sound a little Indian or whatever. But in terms of pulling this population in, I could see Foo Fighters or something that isn't like bang your head rock, but still has enough that it feels manly and that there's a way maybe to re-market it or repackage it. So it can't, we can call it tactical. 

00:49:45 Vance: Here it goes. This is art. So I'm going to give you some names off my latest playlist. This is the one that I used last weekend. And I'm certainly willing to share because all my stuff on Spotify is wide open, so steal whatever you want. Trevor Hall, Mother Love Bone, Stereo MC's, DJ Khaled, Josh Redden, Brett Young, Cold Plague. It's all over the place, but it's all stuff that they recognize.

00:50:12 Erin: It's great. Nothing like some DJ Khaled to get your breathing. 

00:50:16 Vance: Oh my God. 

00:50:16 Erin: Calm your breathing. 

00:50:18 Vance: Yeah. And then he just keeps–

00:50:19 Erin: Here's some Jelly Roll. 

00:50:21 Vance: Oh, oh, listen to me. I am recently obsessed with Jelly Roll. And I do have a… I have a playlist that I have a couple of songs from him on there, but I'm getting more and more into it. Yeah. I like kind of everything and it's more about the vibe in the room and I'm looking for a, kind of a different beat. And it's great when, you know, DJ Khaled just keeps saying like another one and you're like, hey, breathe. And then he says another one because you just gotta keep breathing. 

00:50:50 Erin: Nice, perfect. 

00:50:52 Cinnamon: I love that. 

00:50:52 Erin: You're like, yeah, I play that. 

00:50:53 Cinnamon: So basically we should tell folks that are using the Spotify platform to listen to us, to just head on over to the search, find Vance Row, and then grab his playlist to see if that would maybe change or shift your perspective on whether or not like you could get down with yoga. It's not gonna be like, oh, all the time. 

00:51:17 Vance: You know, I try to limit the amount of hippie dippy because I know that that is a detractor. I was actually having this conversation with somebody the other day who was a military vet, who has also gotten into the yoga teachings. And, you know, for me, it's, look, I know all this stuff and I've heard, you know, and I keep deep diving and keep learning more and more, but there's, I can't share all of it. Because if I share all of it, I'll lose them. And I wanna keep them in there. 

00:51:42 Cinnamon: You gotta ease them into that. 

00:51:44 Vance: Right.

00:51:44 Cinnamon: Like you can't start out with a, you know, shocker journey. 

00:51:48 Vance: I can't be talking about coaches and things like that. Cause people are gonna be like, go on. 

00:51:53 Erin: I'm outta here. Well, have you, do you know this guy? Gosh, I can't, I forget his name every time. I've actually told some of our clients to go check him out who are like, meditations to woo woo. He's, I've seen him on Instagram and TikTok and he's like this meditation guy teaches you how to meditate, but he says the F word, like every other, yeah, that guy. 

00:52:14 Vance: I want to say his name is like Brian. And I mean, like he's like meditating and being like calm the fuck down. 

00:52:20 Erin: Yeah, it's like, yeah, this is how they want to do it. They want DJ Khaled and they want some F words and then they might do it. And then you just add– 

00:52:28 Vance: So I promise you, I'm going to drop some cuss words whenever I'm teaching yoga too, every time. 

00:52:35 Cinnamon: You're like, this is going to burn like a mother. 

00:52:37 Vance: Right.

00:52:38 Erin: So before we wrap up, there is, this is kind of an opportunity for you to like, give us your spiel, you know, wrap it up. Like your whole opportunity here is to give us the why, the how of yoga, especially for first responders and like, you know, tie it up with a pretty little bow. 

00:52:59 Vance: Okay. So listen, the huge-st reason to get into yoga, it's not about being stretchy. It's not about being, you know, especially bendy or anything like that. It all comes down to getting out of your head, getting back into your body, and being able to self-regulate your own central nervous system. And that's a lot of the things that you can learn simply by using your breath, breathing deep in and out. And listen, if that's all you do and sit in a chair, you just did yoga, because you're pulling your mind, body, and spirit back together. Listen, if we do a couple of poses, we'll just call that a bonus. And if you even want to tell me, hey, I want this song, I'll add it. 

00:53:39 Vance: So I do have a YouTube channel. And I've started to put up practices for folks that can't practice with me in person. There's a 15 minute one up there. There's a 30 minute one up there. I'm slowly adding more and more as we go. And it's, you have a rescue advance. If you ever want to have a conversation, I am certainly willing to do this through Zoom. I can show up at agencies. I can talk all about my story. I can talk all about, central nervous system. I have a lady that'll talk all about brain health, all these things. 

00:54:08 Vance: The whole idea is, listen, I don't want you just to survive your career. You're literally coming to the end, crippled and limping. And then you get into retirement, you just can't do what you once did. And yeah, you'll collect the paycheck for a little while. That's it. I don't love that word, survive. I like the word thrive. So get all the way through that career. And then, I mean, just like, live like 40 more years and like bankrupt your agency, bankrupt your town because you collect your pension for so long and they're like, why won't this guy go away? So I just want people to take care. 

00:54:49 Cinnamon: They're sending out birthday cards like happy 100. 

00:54:53 Vance: I just, you know, I just want to give some suggestions on how people can take better care of themselves. Listen, if you want to do yoga, I'd love, if you did yoga with me, but that doesn't have to be the only way we interact, but yeah, I'm down for all of it. 

00:55:07 Erin: Well, we, do you have any other go-to things that you use now? Any other tools that you use outside of yoga? I mean, obviously yoga encompasses a lot of things. 

00:55:17 Vance: It does. Yeah. 

00:55:18 Erin: Any others? 

00:55:19 Vance: So I got into the cold plunges. I was doing that. I have my own like at home one, my big tub that I got from Tractor Supply that I think you're supposed to raise chickens in. But instead I put ice and water and jump in. I like to paddle board in the summertime. Not necessarily this time of year, but there's something very peaceful about being out on that water. At some point, maybe I'll learn how to surf. I don't know. Everybody talks about it. They, you know, like it's almost like a religious experience. And I do like to be in the water. I like to be up in the waves, but I don't, just never got into surfing. Yeah. I just, that walk in the dogs, just kind of be it outside. All of those things.

00:55:59 Vance: There's some, like a combination of all of those that I do on a weekly basis and I can tell when I need a yoga practice. I had to force myself to go back to a studio because I teach so much and then my regular job, like I get so busy and wrapped up and then I can start to feel it in my body that like you need a class. And I can actually, but that's, that is a self-awareness that I have now that I didn't have five years ago and that's kind of just being in touch, like being able to feel the stress coming up and then you could take care of it. So there you go. 

00:56:35 Cinnamon: It's like you traded out, I need a drink for I need a class. 

00:56:38 Vance: I need a class. 

00:56:40 Cinnamon: Yeah. 

00:56:41 Erin: Cause our body tells us when we're squirrely, whether it's a positive thing or a negative thing that we're choosing to use to help with the squirrel-iness. 

00:56:49 Vance: That's exactly right. 

00:56:50 Erin: Wow. Well, is there anything that you feel like we haven't touched on today that you think is important to share and/or sentiment is a note taker. And so she might have something that may have been missed that she wanted to ask. So I want to make sure that we give you that platform to do that. 

00:57:06 Vance: I just appreciate the opportunity to come chat with you all for a little while. I'm really looking forward to seeing you in person here in a little while, but a month and a half. That'd be cool. 

00:57:16 Erin: Yes, it is. It's so cool. We've met such great people in the past, even five months since we've really been just, like stalking people on Instagram and Facebook and like seeing what everybody else is doing. That's been so fun because I'm just falling in love with so many different people who are up to such great things. I know sentiment can say the same. So being able to meet you all in person and give hugs and high fives and say, and to have a nice meal, like it's gonna be lovely to meet you in person. 

00:57:48 Vance: For sure. 

00:57:49 Erin: Yeah, do that. 

00:57:51 Cinnamon: I did find one question. 

00:57:52 Erin: Okay. 

00:57:53 Vance: All right, shoot.

00:57:53 Cinnamon: In all of my notes. I have now, you know, got little marks saying this is a question. You had mentioned that you have a group that meets twice monthly for people who are just wanting to ask questions about stopping drinking. Is that a small little collective that is of, like friends or is that a meeting that we could potentially send people to that are, that they have their own questions. And while we can answer them, Erin and I, we're not first responders. And there's going to be a different answer. If you talk to a first responder that may land completely differently than if I just tell you about addiction or abuse or misuse, you're like, this is how it plays out in our field where I just sound like I'm a chemical dependency counselor. 

00:58:48 Vance: So we had had a, one of our local firefighters had started this group maybe two years ago, and he was in school at that point. He'd also be a mental health therapist. And so as of this past May, he has completed that. This group started with two people and we are now at like 12, if everybody showed up, so we do meet in person, however, there is a Zoom option to it. So yes, if you have somebody that you don't know where to send them, and I can actually send you some other options too. One of which is called warriors anonymous. 

00:59:25 Vance: That is a 12 step group. That is only first responders in, military and it's run through Warriors Heart out of Texas. And they meet every night at 7 PM through Zoom, every night, but Sunday and Monday. So we meet the first and third Wednesday of every month and it's always at 6 PM. And we will certainly offer a Zoom option. So it's either one of you ever want to throw that out to people that they'd be talking to police officers, firefighters, a death investigator, dispatchers. I mean, we really kind of run the gamut and it touches so many different people. And it's just such a wonderful resource. 

01:00:02 Vance: So we say that we are, we have people that are in recovery. We have people that are struggling with trying to get into recovery. And then we have people that what my friend calls sober curious that like, Hey, what's it like not to drink? So we at least, let's have a conversation. It's just about support and community. And like I said before, when I was at the worst parts of my own issues, I felt like I was by myself and I didn't feel like anybody would ever understand. And whenever we share, so whenever we have a new person that comes in, a lot of us will share bits of our story. 

01:00:40 Vance: And it's crazy to me that I would hear going around the table, the stuff that I don't tell people that was only ever in my head. And I can hear them say it and I'm like, Oh shit, me too. And there's just a very strong bond that gets formed in that room. And so like now. I, you know, I know I can't drink, but I also don't want to let any of them down. Because like I would have to tell them. So there, there's accountability there. So, you know, there's a lot of reasons that I'm very thankful that my buddy created this group and it certainly helps some others and it certainly helped me. 

01:01:20 Vance: I wish this wasn't in existence when I first stopped drinking, but it has certainly helped me in the last two years to get stronger and help others. So I still have that purpose to serve and help my brothers and sisters, just in a different way. 

01:01:41 Erin: It's awesome. And we'll make sure that we add all of Vance's information in the show notes today. The YouTube channel, the websites, all of that fun stuff, ways to contact him. I know that we have posted a video of yours on our social media, at least on our Facebook, which I will be sharing again. 

01:02:03 Vance: Okay. 

01:02:03 Erin: And then we will also add you as another resource on our resource page. So that's like a direct, easy click away if for some reason you're like, who was that guy? Yoga guy? I can't remember, but I know it was on After The Tones Drop.

01:02:19 Vance: I mean, and listen, you know, if anybody wants to try a yoga practice and doesn't know, like the stuff on my YouTube channel is all beginner friendly. And then if they want a longer class or they want something private, I will do that through Zoom. They just got to reach out. 

01:02:33 Erin: Perfect.

01:02:33 Vance: I'll make it work. 

01:02:35 Erin: Well, now too, we can share your episode and the beginner video that you have with our clients who wanna, you know, who could use more tools and would appreciate it. So it's all a nice little package deal. 

01:02:50 Vance: Wonderful. 

01:02:50 Erin: Vance, we thank you. 

01:02:52 Cinnamon: Well, and also would probably be more open to trying it in their own home. 

01:02:55 Vance: Sure.

01:02:56 Cinnamon: Than getting lured to a hippie dippy yoga studio. 

01:03:00 Vance: Bang-gongs and chant home. 

01:03:03 Erin: And they'll appreciate it more than Yoga With Adriene, which is who I always watch because she makes me laugh. I feel like we would be friends. 

01:03:10 Vance: Right. No, I think she's good. And she, and her dog makes an appearance like every single time. It's funny. I listen, I do a lot. There's, ‘cause I don't, like, if I'm going to practice on my own, it's not like I do my own class. God, no, I don't want to let someone hear my voice or anything like that. I watch, I find, like YouTube stuff and I'll watch her all, once. Like there's some other people that I like watching. 

01:03:34 Erin: Yeah. 

01:03:34 Vance: So.

01:03:35 Erin: Yeah. They'll probably take to you a little better than her, even though I do. 

01:03:38 Vance: That's all right. I'm sorry. Sometimes I cuss. 

01:03:42 Erin: Yeah. I bet she does too. She just doesn't do it on YouTube. 

01:03:46 Cinnamon: Or she mutes it. Watch for her lips moving, but no noise. 

01:03:51 Erin: Well, thank you so much, Vance. We really appreciate you. We will see you in just a few short months in person. 

01:03:58 Vance: Yeah, for sure. I look forward to seeing the episode come out. And this has been great. 

01:04:03 Erin: It has been. 

01:04:05 Vance: Thank you both.

01:04:09 Erin: Thank you for joining us for today's episode of After The Tones Drop. Today's show has been brought to you by Whole House Counseling. As a note, After The Tones Drop is for informational purposes only and does not constitute for medical or psychological advice. It is not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please contact a local mental health professional in your area if you are in need of any assistance. You can also visit AfterTheTonesDrop.com and click on our resources tab for an abundance of helpful information. And we would like to give a very special thank you and shout out to Vens Adams, Yeti, and Sanda for our show's music.