Thriving in the Wild: With Zach Ferenbaugh

EP23-Thriving in the Wild

Erin: let's get this party started officially. Who is this man in the background? Well, I don't know. 

Cinnamon: this is probably the most excited I've ever been . So this is actually, , my favorite podcaster. , his name is Zach Ferenbaugh. , and I've known him since I was 16. He was born when I was 16 and he is my nephew. He is my sister's kid. And, , I am out in Colorado for work for a week and it did not make sense to not do this and not go on, , and cast with him because we get to talk about mental health all the time, whenever he.

Drives by or flies by, , and it just seemed like we had a bit of a Venn diagram of overlapping, , listeners and. , we pre warned Erin that when we are together, it is a steep competition of who can out talk the other, as well as who has to end the conversation and maybe kick him out and tell him that he's got to leave or that one of us has to go.

Zach: Yeah. It's like at some point there's a slight competition and who can be the stubborn one to make sure that it doesn't. Keep going or like it doesn't go off the rails, you know, 

 really... But it's fun. We have good conversations. That's the point. And I, and it's, it's that way with so many people for me too, where I think to myself, like, I can't get locked into this. To the point of like, I can't answer a friend's phone calls or texts or anything because I just get so distracted that I won't get anything done.

And I'll look back on the day and be like, I spent 50% of the day just texting, you know, and

Erin: Connecting. Oh, you're a connector.

Zach/Cinn: well, I mean. That's a good way to frame it. And I do love to do it, but it's like, it's kind of like other things I've had to stop or slow down in life. lot of things I really like, I get easily attached to them, and then I don't stop.

Well,

Erin: but when you're at Cinnamon's house, it's a whole nother story.

Zach/Cinn: as soon as we become face to face, it's a totally different story, but it's like the texting stuff. It's like, I can't just, I don't know, I'm, I'm so bad about, 

Erin: boundaries with Cinnamon.

Zach/Cinn: Well, and everybody though too, it's like, it's not, so I, I'm just thinking of a world where somebody that also doesn't get a reply is listening to this.

It's not just, it's not just sentiment. And it's like, everybody knows that. Everybody knows if they text me, it might be, and you know, I try to get back at some point, but it might be a couple weeks, months, you know, a lot of times just text messages that kind of build up on my unread, like I glance at them, but then don't go back.

So his notifications say 40

on his text,

Erin: Yeah. Don't worry, dude. mine say 11. That's okay. That's not 40, but look, he keeps them. in there so he can remember to look back. I mean, it's the reminder, you know, they just keep piling up, but, okay. So here we are. We're already on the squirrel level. We're already like squirrel.

Zach/Cinn: was part of the introduction of like, why? And the thing that I love about getting to do this is, , like I've had clients walk in for sessions wearing his merch and so I know that we have listeners in our world that are also following his and obviously I know a lot more about his story than I think just the average person would, and given who he is and where he came from and his own journey around mental health.

It just seemed like. Why would we not take this opportunity? And plus he's so cute.

Erin: is so cute. He's got great hair, great smile. Okay. So. We know that his name is Zach. We know that he's a podcaster. We know that he's your nephew, but

Zach/Cinn: the public public 

Erin: okay. Yeah. So I was going to say, Zach, do you want to tell us what you're doing out there in this world and, why this excites you and all that fun jazz.

So that folks know who they're actually listening to 

Zach/Cinn: just like hey cinnamon had her nephew on the show. , yeah, so the hunting public is something that me and some friends started 2017 and we make hunting videos and post them on YouTube is like the most generic thing that we do. We also do podcasts and I guess kind of the niche that we have is public land and we travel.

So, if you get on to our YouTube channel, you'll see videos from all over the place I bet we've hunted now in 30 different states for different species, but we've really been all over the place and. What's been your favorite? Hmm, I don't have one. Fair. That's a common question and I think anything new is always fun.

And even within the same state you can have something new. Hunting public land and just always challenging yourself to learn something new is kind of what we do and then Whether it's good or bad, we post it, you know, whatever lesson is there, if there's success or failure at the end of it, we post it regardless because we want to show real hunting like 

These are the real mistakes that people make and just hoping that people can learn from the good and the bad. 

 it's a completely different adventure. 

So there's a lot more uncertainty, unpredictability and less knowledge going in. Yeah, and there's like a lot of uncontrollable factors on public land and that's become the draw of it Is that you don't know what you're gonna get yourself into you may have a plan and you're hit and by the end of it the whole plan is completely upside down, but sometimes those are when the best hunts happen Sometimes it goes just as planned and that's great But it definitely doesn't always and you can't really predict that and I think that that's what's fun.

And then therefore you also just get a bunch of experience in different situations. 

you said a couple of things that I'm like, Ooh, I think that we can circle this back, yes, we have this overlap of listeners. It's freaking awesome. And so as you know, Zach, a lot of our listeners, I would say 98% of them are first responders.

Erin: I mean, I'm sure we have some people that just like to hear stories and, or maybe their spouses, but Something you said was about this uncontrolled territory and you know that you're going in, you are doing a job, you are out there to hunt, but there are so many key factors that could potentially throw you off your game could change the game completely at any given moment It could be I imagine obviously the weather maybe all the animals are sleeping there I don't know I don't but the point is is that you're trained right like you are a master at what you do and You're trained in what you do, but at any given moment it all can just go completely sideways, just like how things go for our first responders.

And why that is important is because one of the first things that you said when you were talking about your YouTube channel is we post the good and the bad, because the goal is for folks to learn from it. And that is a profound thing. And, to me, I'm like, actually, that sounds like the good and the good.

Like for you guys, it might be like, we didn't find anything. , but on the flip side, as far as perspective goes. That's incredible that you're like, look, this actually isn't a loss because we're able to share what didn't work, and so much of life is what worked and what didn't work. And if it didn't work, let's shift.

Let's do something different. So because I'm circling it all back around and making it, this little package. There's just a couple of things that I can see. Not only do our listeners love the hunting public, love to hunt, but the parallels of what you do are very, very similar where everything can just shift on a dime like that.

Zach/Cinn: I'm glad that you were like, Oh, I caught something because I did too. I was like thinking, this whole approach of the unpredictableness and you can have a plan and the plan can change. And sometimes when the plan changes, it doesn't go as well as you want. But sometimes when the plan changes, it goes better than you had hoped.

And sometimes when the plan goes exactly the way it's supposed to, in terms of logistics, you still don't get the results that you want. And how do you adapt to that? And to me, that's taking hunting to a different, level to now it's a philosophy. And so, I again, had the privilege to know you since, , I was a teen.

And I've kind of watched your journey, in a lot of ways. it's paralleled mine. one of the things is I don't have kids. And so I've got Zach and his brother and, their cousin and my niece and I can look at all three of them and be like, ooh, ooh, there I am.

And that's, really nice to, be able to have that when, you know, , when you don't actually have kids. But watching the last few years. Of Zach going, you know, from 2017, where this was a new thing to now this is his full blown lifestyle.

there have been some different challenges and all of your previous coping skills. Have not continued to work as your life has changed or different challenges has come up. And that's the other thing that I wanted to be able to talk about was the parallels of one, you are in a hyper masculine male dominated field.

, like our first responders are shout out to our lady parts, but they're just like 3%, , And what it meant for you to realize that some of your old ways of doing and being didn't work with this new adultier adult life and how you kind of broke through some of those standard mindset Yeah, I think that, I guess first point out some of the, new challenges with what I guess I was faced with, with this job is just like what I like about hunting public land. Sometimes I get a little bit thrown off by it too, and from the standpoint of like, I'm just, I'm always pushing, I'm always trying to push, and I'm very committed to one thing. I have a hard time multitasking, like for example, one thing that I struggle with personally is if I'm hunting, I want to hunt. I want to focus completely on that.

I don't want to think about any, I don't want to, I don't want to drive into town and post a podcast, but I have to do that and sometimes that can get me pretty scrambled and because we're traveling as well, there's not a lot of consistency to anything like we can always, kind of come up with some general.

I guess. Schedule? Schedule, plan, stuff like that. Like how to adjust for certain things, but none of those things are consistent. So sometimes I just lose track of balancing everything because I get so caught up in like, I really want to hunt, but then once I'm done hunting, I really want to edit and I'm, very like bingy is what I've been using lately.

I'm all in, I'm all like, I want to do the one thing and I want to only focus on that. I really don't want any other distractions, but that doesn't always work super well, obviously. And that at times has got me to just, I don't know, kind of just freak out and not even freak out. It's just like, I become even more focused on the one thing, which can become a problem.

And like one example that popped into my head. That I've been talking about this one a lot, but, , it's just something that you wouldn't know this from watching the videos necessarily is back in October of 2022. I went to Minnesota, I was with Keith, a buddy of mine, and, , we went in and we had a super efficient, like, scout a new area.

They put a plan together, execute the plan, and I messed up the shot and basically just hit a buck too high. It was a non lethal shot, it was bow hunting, hit the buck above the vitals to where it was just a flesh wound. Ended up, luckily somebody contacted me, 14 days later during the rifle season somebody shot that same buck. Because we have video and everything, you can put the whole story together. So anyway, because of that... It was like everything was going so well, and even couple months before that, as the season started, everything was just perfectly, playing out. Well, then I make this mistake and feel like I'm letting everybody down.

I'm letting, Keith down, who was there filming. I'm letting the rest of THP down and like, I'm letting viewers down. Like I made this terrible mistake and I, and I also just like, unnecessarily wounded this animal and that just. Really upset me and instead of taking a step back and taking a break I just got out of control next thing.

You know, it's like I'm really not texting anybody back I can't do anything but like I'm just dying to go hunting more What did you call it? Like you were shutting down and got even more hyper focused. Mm hmm Like I didn't want to do anything else. I don't want, you want to fix a problem you couldn't fix because you weren't going to be able to turn back time and fix that one moment, but you are still trying to compensate for what had went sideways and like, again, a factor that you can't control is weather.

And we were in Minnesota and that time of the year, generally the average temperature is like, let's say down in the forties, low forties or high thirties. And it was like, And it was just consistently that warm and we had this great hunt early, obviously, and I made the mistake and then it just got worse and worse and worse.

and then as I reflect on the whole season, that's a very low point where. I look back on it, and it's like, I should have just taken a break, focused on some of the things that I did well, but instead, it was like, I just let that one mistake kind of let me get out of control. I think even in the moment, I go into denial too, where it's like, oh, I'm not, you know.

I'm not doing the thing. I'm not doing that. I'm not, you know. This is the problem. Going off the rails here, but I, I was. Everything that you were doing seems justified from your perception in the moment, in the moment, the 2020 hindsight and maybe even somebody else's perception, like if Keith would have said Hey man, so many things went well, let's shake this off.

Go back into town, reset, and try it again. and it's even possible that Keith did do that, I don't know, or if Keith had did that, it wouldn't have mattered. Yeah, I think it's the second part, when Keith, when somebody does that in these situations. It doesn't matter. And I think to, to try to like help that then, there's other examples too, which I'm sure will pop up as we talk, if you're listening to, and you're like, Oh dude, like whatever you get to hunt, like that's not a big deal.

I'm not denying that, but it definitely still becomes a problem when. You're like going out of control. What I like to say is, yes, there are starving children in East Asia, but if I get a flat on the side of 75, like I still get to be pissed about it. Do I have insurance? Do I have money to replace it? Do I have access to a tow truck?

All of those things. And it still gets to suck even if I put it in perspective, right? Right. It ultimately ends up coming back to trying to figure out balance for my life because there's obviously other things that I do too, but I get to a point where I don't, do other things.

I mean, I look back even bigger picture and since 2020 when COVID shut down, anything else that I liked to do, I became even more hyper focused on hunting, editing, podcasting, 

whatever. To where it took me having a knee injury to, snap me out of, a long term, multi year hunting binge. Which, I'm not saying I won't do it again, and I'm not gonna be close to that, but I think one reflecting point has been it's okay to take a break, and there's gonna be a tomorrow, and I think sometimes I just get in my head that there is no tomorrow.

Like, there is tomorrow. There's like a now. Yeah, there's a tomorrow, but there's not two days 

from now until it gets there, and then it's like, I just can't. I can't take a break and just stop and balance out all aspects of what we do where it's like I just have a hard time sometimes chipping away at like, okay, I'm going to go hunt, but then I'm going to edit and then I'm going to get a podcast done and then I'm going to take two days to just hang out at home and spend time with family or whatever.

But I get to where. I'm just going, going, going, going, and then I just make myself insane, really. And then, there's so many different types of emotions that come with all that, but it's just. there's so many things that I want to point out and plug in, the fact that you can sit here and, talk about three years ago or even, October of 2022, it's the idea that you can have that insight, you can recognize what you were doing and still admit and acknowledge that it's quite possible it'll happen again.

But With that, because you know yourself and you do have some patterns, what have you done to disrupt them in the ways that feel effective to you so you don't have, friends that don't hear from you for two weeks or you don't miss out on time with Whitney, rather than going somewhere and do something hunting public related.

 I know we have blind spots in the moment, but it also sounds like there's some overarching insights and changes that you've made. 

I think that what I've done has been Just a, I do talk to a therapist, which has been extremely helpful. Just, you know, how long on and off for about a year. So like during hunting season, you know, that kind of

Erin: What, 

therapist can't go with you? your 

therapist doesn't hunt? 

Zach/Cinn: Oh my God. That may be my next, next true calling is I become the travel 

Erin: hunting therapist.

Zach/Cinn: I'll be the hunting therapist. So that's been kind of. different. Why did you decide a year ago? it was the, I guess this is another issue. I guess maybe I'll find a way to tie all this together.

So another problem that I have is because I become so, hyper focused on things. I realized that I'm very good at focusing on those things, but I'm not very good at, just like, again, balancing. And really what started happening was, is people were pushing me, and my family, specifically aunts and mom, were saying, you know, you should talk to somebody, you should talk to somebody, you should talk to somebody, but I had never talked to anybody up to that point, like I had went through school and struggled with these same things, just different versions of it.

And Whitney actually picked up this book but it was this, therapists accounts of people with ADHD and there were all these different examples and through the different examples he was listing, what Signs they had or what symptoms I guess so like in the story They were just saying their narrative, but then you have this Yeah, meant to all the professional that was plucking different things out and labeling them in terms of mental health conditions or mental health related behaviors Yeah, and as I'm reading that I'm like Whoa, like I check every one of the boxes like if there was 10 people, let's just say in the first 40 pages, cause I think that's all I made it through before I realized it was time to do something.

I didn't finish the book.

Erin: That was all you needed. 

Zach/Cinn: That's all you needed. First 40 pages, but let's say there was 10 people and each of them had like three or four things that made them like a shoo in for ADHD. It was like, I had all of the two things that every one of those ten individuals had and it was like Whoa. I started relating this all back to school and thinking about some of the struggles that I had in school.

And like, one of the things that I always think of is math homework. Like I could sit down and I could generally speaking, get through my homework fairly efficiently, But then I'd hit math homework and it was just always a little bit more of a struggle for me. A lot of times I would save it to the end and I'd be burnt out on doing homework.

I wanted to go outside and do other things and I had times when I was a kid would just spend hours sitting there. Trying to do this math homework, but like something was blocking it and I just never really dove into that I never broke that down. It's just like I hate math, right? Thinking about it when I knew how to do it I didn't ever hate it, it was just that I couldn't focus on it, like, you put numbers in front of me and no pictures, no, like, there's nothing creative in my mind about math, I mean, maybe somebody that's in math has got a different opinion on that, but I just never felt like I was doing anything other than just going through this.

Like, I don't know, going to hate me for this, but it's like just going through some made up, like nonsense, it doesn't make any sense. I'm never going to use this. And I just could never focus on it. So that was one example. And then it got way worse when I was in college too, it was like, if I didn't, understand it completely, I just could not focus on And then as time went on, it became. Not as big of an issue, but I had different ways of figuring it out. Like, for example, where most of us worked before we started the hunting public, we worked at Midwest Whitetail and there we had an office and everything was based out of the same place in Iowa and when I would go into the office, if there was a distraction, if there was other people in there, I would.

You know, maybe spend 50% of the day working the other 50% I'm getting distracted by whatever I could just run into and, that was cool, because I was still in the same place and I didn't have any other obligations.

I had no promises. I didn't have family at the time. Yeah, I was just alone in this town where like my friends were doing the same job I was. So if it meant. a couple of nights out of the week, I just had to go, in and work at night. I would do that. And a lot of times what would end up happening is I'd just get the whole project done.

Like I would upload a show, like a full length edited show onto the website. And I would do that at three in the morning when it was due at 7 a. m. the next morning. And then that's just continued But, it became a problem then. It's like, this lack of focus becomes a problem when I'm traveling, and I've got so many moving parts at all times.

I mean, it's just like sitting down to do this today. I'm trying to get all these gadgets working. It's like I look back on a day, and it's like, man, you spent half the damn day just tinkering around with whatever, trying to get stuff lined up. It's because I'm distracted. And I think that ultimately what was happening and this is, this is, I feel like where a lot of things kind of come together, I would start to just.

Truthfully hate myself because I could never get anything done the way that I wanted to so then I would just get pissed, depressed, mad, angry, anger is a one that I resort to and I think like, again, people watch videos and they're like, Oh, you're always so happy. And it's like, yeah, I am when I'm 

hunting, but then it's Yeah, but then I go home and it's just like, you know, I can sit there and stew on something for a long time and I can get it. I mean, it's kind of a genetic trait, I would say. Self beat up. Well, and the like, 

growly, yeah. Like, Aaron has asked me can we, moving forward, like, can I just never be dead to you again.

Erin: I was Like, 

dead to her a bunch of times in our 12 years. I'm

like, 

okay. 

Zach/Cinn: I guess. It's funny I think one of the things that I try to tell people all the time, and you're close to me, you understand, you already know what this means, I think, I hope, but it's like, I never mean anything personal when I growl and get mad, it's like, it's all internal. It's like, I can snap and be, mean, like, you know, how it gets in our family at times.

It's like, it's a family. It is. It's, it's, I would not say it's in our DNA. I would say it's a learned. Behavior. Okay. It might be in our DNA, but it's definitely a behavior that we've seen over and over and master growler in our family, our, patriarch, like nobody reprimands that behavior.

So it just gets duplicated and we get mean. And there are some people that it probably is. I think, yeah, I was going to say, I think it's genetic 

 the whole like the whole plan people, you can see that same reaction happen. And when you see it, you can feel it because you're like, okay, I've been there. But anyway, that family vibe where you're like, whoosh, I just fell. The energy come off that person and it's recognizable energy. And so you know how to identify and

Erin: Well, here's the thing though. I'm only adopted. I have now been adopted into your family. 

Zach/Cinn: Oh yeah. Jim. 

Erin: so I'm like your adopted aunt too. , but I'm not genetically adopted. related to you guys. And you're sitting here talking about how you're feeling, how you handle stuff, the reactions that you're having, how you obsess and isolate and all those things.

And I'm like, this man's telling my story. kind 

of felt myself getting teary eyed because I'm like,

Zach/Cinn: you see my face get red when he was like, I hate myself. And I'm like, my baby hates it.

Erin: well, but the thing is like, I relate. And there's nobody harder on us than us. It's like, why am I like this? Like I don't want to be around myself. And even down to the anger and the rage and just that snapping, I call it my four year old girl, because it's just like so ridiculously out of character for me being 42 years old to be acting like that.

So the reason I say that is because it is all so correlated with this ADHD diagnosis, and, everything else. Like I don't think that it's unique to your particular family because here I am like, yeah, that's me. 

Zach/Cinn: We just have a lot of 

Erin: yes, 

Zach/Cinn: a small 

Erin: yeah, it's probably like real, the energy you got to sage when everybody parts ways, that stuff out.

Zach/Cinn: I think with our family, the reason that I bring that up is I just have over the years been looking at it and breaking it down too, to where it's like, okay, that's very similar, that's very similar, that's very similar, and then comparing that to other families and other friends of mine and just seeing the difference.

and noticing that, like, not everybody is doing these same things, where it's like, Aaron, who is, somebody that I work with, started THP, like, when him and I first started, friends when we worked at Midwest Whitetail, he was like, man, you'll just go from, like, you know, way up here to way down here in an instant, and you'll be right back up here.

And it's like, I never really noticed that about myself. And then I started thinking about it, and I started looking at myself, the whole rest of the family, like, you know, all the way back to my great grandma. You know, it's like, well, we all kind of do these same things. And then I started to think, too, like, okay, what are my tendencies?

And, how can I adjust? And, like, over time, I figured out ways to cope with it. Like, at Midwest Whitetail, like I said, I just became a master procrastinator, which was... Okay, it got me through, but then as things change, it's, I always come up with this new battle and I think that ultimately when I realized and I don't want to make it sound like somebody was like, you have ADHD dude, you're good.

It's not that way. It just made me realize, okay, okay. I am thinking about things a little bit differently, and I just have to adjust, and knowing that you have to adjust because somebody's helping you work through it, whether that's, you know, the therapist or, , friends, whatever it may be, like, if you're talking to somebody about these things, it's just gonna help you be more aware of, the challenges and, the adjustments that you have to make, and somebody that's also super helpful for me, too, is, Ben, like, Ben and I talk about, like, super.

deep things, like a lot of things that you don't necessarily talk, and Whitney as well, but stuff you don't necessarily talk with everybody about. And I just think that, having people to talk to and not being afraid of being vulnerable in front of people, I guess, is one of those things which back to kind of that idea of the hunters and first responders being a male dominated thing.

It's not easy all the time. You know, it's not always easy to, you know, poor emotions out, I suppose, or talk about certain things that are bothering you. But when you do, it makes you feel better. And then also, you know, the one thing that I know, talking to a therapist has helped me is it's helped me.

Be proud of the things that like I probably should be proud of right like instead of Worrying about all the bad things. It's like well, do you notice that before what you were doing was hyper focusing on the mistakes and minimizing the good stuff If somebody tried to compliment you, it'd be like, yeah, but, and you would dismiss or minimize whatever they were saying to I wouldn't say that I, I wouldn't say that I would do that, like to anybody's face.

In your mind. But maybe in my mind, yeah. Just, yeah. Never, quite good enough. And I think that, I mean, but I think there's also pros to that too, though. Like, I think the advantages of having a GHD, yeah, I think you push, I think, like, yeah, I think in ways it's like, helps me push myself constantly. I'm never content, which I think is really a good trait.

I mean, it can be dangerous. It's a teeters, right? It's a balance. So, can I ask, well, I have, a handful of questions. I probably should be writing them down like I normally do. First thing is, when you first read that book, and you saw all of those characteristics that were similar to things that you recognize in yourself, what was that moment like when you were like, oh, there's like a name, like it's not just I'm jacked up, it's this is a pattern that That lots of people have and there's a name for it.

And so once you can name it, you don't have to reinvent the wheel to find ways to cope. they're already established tools that you can sort through and find the ones that work for you. it's actually a hard thing to explain, and I've thought about that a lot.

Like, what is that moment? and I know how it felt. just. The emotion that I felt was like relief, in a way, because it's like, oh, okay, so there is something there. This is different. I am different. You're not just, bad at certain things. Right. There's a reason. Right. Yeah, and I again, I don't want to make it sound like, I don't know, this is the part that I struggle with.

I don't want to sit here and say, oh yeah, I have this huge problem. Like, I could also... Probably just keep, stumbling my way through it, but when I, learned that this is something that is real, then I was able to address it, finally, where prior, I didn't actually know, You just thought you hated math and couldn't finish it.

Yeah, I mean, seriously, no joke. Like when, I thought of ADHD, I just always thought of a few specific kids that like were just wild cards when I was growing up. and looking at it now, like, obviously I was one of those as well when I, now that I know, but at the time it was just like, oh yeah, that's, so and so he's a little, he's a little out of control.

He can't sit still, whatever, but it doesn't always look exactly the same. And I think also the fact that my mom when I was younger, never really pushed me to address any of those issues, which. She's told me, that she kind of, she regrets that. I think she feels bad that she, helped, you know.

Enabled. Yeah, and it, enabled me to ignore it, really. It was like, oh, yeah, you're fine. there's nothing wrong here. You're so perfect. Yeah, and Well, baby Zachy. Yeah, certain things. The things that I really love that I can really focus on but they're very few the list is short It's basically baseball football and hunting and fishing I guess but like these few things that when I walk into them, it's like I don't care about anything else I just learn, I continue to learn and I can just take everything in and that's such a special feeling.

I think that's why I've become so locked into those things and I can be proud of those things. Those are the motivators to like it also motivates me I could go to football practice and work my ass off and whether I was, worth a damn for it or not, I could be proud of that because I could really focus and I could really try to learn and become better.

And I was always proud of that. But then other things I would just get upset about and mad and frustrated. Feel like you failed? Yeah, I feel like I failed then I would just not want to do them anymore. Like school in general became that for me. Like when I was in college, By the time that was all said and done, it was like, okay, get me out of here.

I don't want to do this anymore. All I want to do is keep editing hunting videos. And luckily I was able to do that. And I mean, that is just so, so lucky to have that fall into place that I was able to do that because I don't know what else I can even do, you know? I mean, I'm sure there's other things, but like, as far as like holding a job, 

Erin: room, 

Zach/Cinn: of my distractions, like I'm, just not, As set up As other people could be to, you know, have a consistent schedule or... I was talking to Aaron earlier and I was like, the interesting thing about his lifestyle 

is it works 

Erin: so

Zach/Cinn: for who he is and at the same time, he doesn't have the structure that might make other things a little bit easier.

Yeah, there's pros and cons to it. So one of the things that I struggle with is trying to go down a checklist of things to do that I would consider them like work, but they're the in between. They're not actually hunting. Like setting up equipment. Yeah, no, no. Like going to the bank earlier today.

Like these in between things that are not work, but they're not Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. So let me go back. when everybody is saying, Hey, you should go talk to someone and your lifestyle is transitioning in a way where your old coping skills aren't working and you're seeing yourself getting frustrated.

First, what was your initial thought when everybody suggested that you talk to somebody, and then what changed for you after you actually did it and got an idea of what therapy actually was versus what you thought it was. Well, the thing, that I always thought was, when somebody would say that, it's like, well I've never done it up to this point, like, and I've been fine, and I'm doing fine.

So why do that? Right? Like I'm doing fine. I'm still getting through the day, the week, the year, whatever you get what I'm trying to say. But what ended up happening was, is I've just became where I was beating myself up. And this goes through waves throughout all of my life.

Like I have a couple key peaks in my life that I can think back to where. it kind of was the tipping point, but I just really had another peak where it was like, I'm actually just miserable all the time. Like outside of the actual act of hunting or locked in editing a video or having a conversation for a podcast.

It's like, you take me outside of that and I'm just miserable because I don't know how to balance anything. Like, how do I get? video done that I'm distracted on, while still going to the bank, while still recording that podcast at 7pm, while still making dinner, while still hanging out with my girlfriend, while still making it to, like, while calling my buddy, like, I can't do it all, and I would just get to a point where, I was, I was so strung out all the time that I was just becoming miserable outside of the act of doing the thing, the thing is hunting and editing. And it's not just a job for you. Like, this is your passion. Yeah. You know, so the idea that... it wasn't even just oh, time to make the doughnuts kind of work.

But this is what was bringing you joy to the point where, nothing else was bringing you joy. Right, right. And I just couldn't find balance and I still, think about certain things and times and I get stressed knowing that it's gonna happen again and it's never gonna stop completely.

Yeah, I don't really know that myself or anybody else in our group is ever going to hit the perfect balance to where they're like, Oh yeah, really nailed it that year. Like, there's just no way we just do way too much. And I think it's because like, you just said some minutes, like we'd love to do it.

It's our hobby as well as it's our job. And that's a weird situation I guess, because for example, I can sit down and work on a video and at the end of the day I am working and that's something that. When I do that, I'm really proud, like I've worked hard, I like feeling proud of working hard.

It doesn't matter what it is, if it's working out, hunting, editing, those are the things that I feel like when I look back on a day, if I check those boxes and I worked hard at those things, I have a good day, I'm proud. But if I am doing something else, I don't necessarily get that same, like, again, even going back to that bank thing, it's like, today I went to the bank, but like, I did like, who cares?

Like, nobody, nobody's paying any attention to that. Nobody's given me a pat on the back for like, yeah, you went to the bank, dude, like, good job. So I don't feel anything for that. 

 I'm the, because I also have ADHD, it's on that other level where I'm like, oh yeah, get it, the, thing of. this is what I'm proud of.

And then these are the things that have to get done to be able to make the things that I'm proud of work. So I have to do payroll. I have to go to the bank. I have to make sure I mail out this check. I have to, scan this document and send it to my bookkeeper. those aren't the things that give me the woos.

And so it makes it even harder. And I really dislike the term attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, because I don't think it's a deficit. I think it's a dysregulation, Like we can hyper focus on some stuff. and so clearly we don't have an attention deficit.

We don't know how to like go down the checklist. Yeah. We dunno how to like go down the checklist of. Okay, I've got this list of things, I don't want to do the first five things that are going to only take probably two hours in the day. I really want to do the thing for, you know, the other, whatever, six to eight hours of the day I want to do.

That you might not even finish. Right. I'm not, oh yeah, well that's like this video that I've been working on, it's like I'm chipping away at it every day. It's like I just want to do that. I want to do my workout, and then I want to sit down, and I don't want to talk to anybody, I get anybody getting in my way until it is done, and that might be three days from now.

But it's like, I have all these other things I gotta do, and I can lock into that video, but I gotta go to the damn bank, or whatever, you know, it's just like the example of the day. Or I gotta make a couple phone calls, or send emails, stuff like that, and I get to where I don't.

Those aren't fun. Those, well... And they're not fulfilling. Yeah, and it's also that in the past, so what'll happen is, is I'll start that email, and then it's like, oh wait. , what was that product that I'm emailing about, for example?

And then I go onto the website, and next thing you know, I'm down the rabbit hole of the website, and I'm, I've spent 20 extra minutes on this email that should have taken two and a half. like to use the example of cleaning the house, right? So maybe I go into this one room to like take all the blankets up off the sofa and fold them up and put them in the trunk and then all of a sudden I realized how much of Ben's dog hairs is on the sofa.

So then I get the vacuum and I'm like vacuuming that. And then I'm like, well shit, it's already in my hands. So I might as well do every single hardwood floor in the house. And then I go into the, dining room and there's dirt and leaves on the floor for my plants. And I'm like, Oh my God, I need to water them.

So now I put down the animal and I pick up the watering can. And even just now, I was like, what was I originally doing? And so to always just feel like I'm failing at something versus, Oh, I know what I'm doing. And even though those five tasks at the top of the list are going to suck, I know why they suck.

And I still know I have to do them because my old way was to dismiss them and go to number six, where now I figured out I can do five. And is that something that you learned? Once you decided to go to therapy and what was the thing that going from I've never had to go.

I'm fine. I could probably live like this for the rest of my life. It may not be an ideal existence, but going from I'm fine and I've never needed it to okay. 

I think you started to answer it, and then we got a little sidetracked. Right. Shocking. like, what have I done, I guess, is your question. Yeah, what was that line that you crossed where you're like, I'm fine, I've never gone to therapy, I hear you all suggesting it, but I just don't think that's, It's necessary because I believed this is what therapy was, to crossing that line of being like, okay, I will go, Oh, Oh, now that I'm going, this is not what I expected it to be.

Well, I think the line that crossed was, miserable, miserable, but I was becoming miserable because I was trying to constantly learn how to balance, but through balancing, I was always trying to like make every happy.

Erin: Be all things to all people.

Zach/Cinn: Yeah, 

Erin: Yeah. 

Zach/Cinn: and we should say, because he mentioned Iowa, and I think this is kind of an important piece.

So where Zach grew up Wapakoneta, Ohio, there were the four of them, and all of us were at least two hours away. And then he goes to Athens. and he's by himself for two years until his younger brother gets there. And then he goes to Iowa and he is the only person outside of his coworkers that's there.

And now he's in Denver and my sister and her husband and their daughter are here. And then. as I like to say, Zach hooked up with the nanny. And so he started living full time here. And then two years ago, his mom and dad moved out here. And then last month his brother and his brother's girlfriend, Andrea moved out here.

So over the course of this time, it's been where we weren't all there, to now, it really is just my parents and Ed and I that aren't here. Like, our entire family relocated. And they live less than three square miles away from each other. Like, we just all walk to each other's houses out here.

So, I would imagine that that had something to do with it. Like, now there was more demands on your time. Yeah, there's more demands on my time. I think that is a big change Before, I could focus in on, making just the work stuff, come together and I could just focus on making that good, done, and it didn't really matter when.

 I'd use that time at Midwest Whitetail as an example earlier of, like, procrastinating and then just doing a lot of stuff at night. Like, the only thing I was giving up then was, hanging out at somebody's house watching other hunting videos, right? It's like... Whatever, and a lot of times too that was paired with those nights the guys that I was working with they were gonna go out with their wives or girlfriends And nobody was really doing anything.

Anyways, like okay, I'll just go spend my entire day working on this video and that's something that I want now, but because I have more, the list is now longer of people that I feel like I have to, Want to make time for. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes. I mean not to sound that I don't want to make time for him It's just I can be selfish because of like the hyper focus.

Yeah the focus. It's like hey, I'm doing it right now Don't get in my way, and I don't like love that about myself, but previously it's the only way I've known how to do things It's like okay. I'm on I gotta disappear well Whitney doesn't like that You know and that's the biggest thing is that I can't balance A relationship.

A relationship. And that can be so many, you know, that can be friendships too. A romantic, whereas all of us, we always have somebody else or it's different when you're somebody's person and you're not available. Yeah. And if I was doing it the old way, I would just check out of everything and just go do.

Whatever it is that I need to do, but I feel like you'd be alone. Yeah, but like I do well in those situations. I mean like you'd be alone like you wouldn't have a girlfriend. Right. Yeah. Right. but I think that's an adjustment that I've had to make is, okay there's more people that want to hang out with me.

And I want to hang out with them, like on this given day, I guess I keep saying with me, meaning I'm in the zone, I'm working on something. Okay. People want to do something else. Okay. How do I break away? Or how do I, how do I balance that? And I think that the problem then that I had, and I guess back to that question is I had hit the peak of like being mad at myself because I was never right.

if I didn't do my work, if I put that off, then I was late. Then if I didn't hang out with Whitney, then All I do is work. and so I was just like always wrong. And I mean, to be honest, I'm not completely out of that phase yet. I'm still working through that phase.

But I'm not saying that other people even view me as always wrong. I think it's that I view myself as always wrong. And that's where I was like, okay, I got to do something different because I'm tired of always being wrong. Like how does anybody go through life and like no joke, how does my mom keep her house so clean?

Like if you could see behind the scenes here, this is like total train wreck right now. Now, I get it occasionally, but I get super focused on that one thing and I'll spend. A day. Or half a day, or an afternoon, evening, whatever. But then I feel guilty about it, and then that's, like, that whole thing playing out.

So it's a cycle. It is a cycle. I'll commit to something, and then end up feeling guilty about it. So hyperfocus, ignore other things. then feel guilty, try to resolve, and then another ball gets dropped because while you're hyper focused on cleaning, then there's other things that you're not doing.

Yeah. So then ultimately, I get to a point where if I'm not doing something for work, then I feel guilty and I just can't stop. 

Erin: 

Zach/Cinn: two quick questions. I don't even want to ask what you were anticipating when you went to therapy because that can be a tricky question, but what surprised you once you started therapy that,, my patterns were predictable.

Like it Yeah, everybody knows you. So I think that was kind of like you weren't terminally unique your problems weren't. Yeah, like it wasn't you were deeply flawed. It was, , okay. So Even though you were fine, and you could have continued, why have you stayed in therapy?

 what, makes you keep going back? Just having somebody to tell, like, even if nothing ever comes You know, for me, something that's super beneficial is just having somebody to vent to that is not feeling let down when I don't do any of the things that are listed in my long list.

It's just like, I'm not failing and. So therapist size, you know what I mean? Well, I like to call it I don't have a dog in the fight Yeah, I'll say I'm gonna have the same thing for dinner tonight. No matter what you did or didn't do I totally whereas you might control what you say to certain people to mitigate their disappointment Yeah, like for example, if I if I start rambling about some of the same things to Whitney, maybe Nine out of ten times it's fine but that one time I say the wrong thing that I like make her feel something. maybe I direct something too much towards something that she takes personally, I suppose. And I think that that's the issue. so if I were to go. to my friends that I work with and I was like, man, I just like, I don't know how to navigate, you know, it's like, yeah, they're dealing with the same shit.

Like, they don't, like, they don't have the answer for it either. Like we're all doing the same thing and it's just, nobody has the answer. So there's just nowhere and there still, I guess, isn't. necessarily an answer. It's just, you have somewhere to go. I think that's the thing. you are like, I've, been able to handle my shit up until this point, because what I hear a lot, I think what Aaron hears a lot is, I don't know what's wrong with me.

I've been able to handle things and now all of a sudden I can't handle things. And it's not So much that you changed, it was that the circumstances changed and sometimes that's just cumulative stuff. And also the whole idea of just having somebody else to talk to. Like friends are great spouses.

Significant others are great. Even coworkers can be great sometimes, but every one of those people have a dog in your fight, even this is why I'm not his therapist, you know? Like this is why family doesn't do it. I would be personally affected by his answers. So to have somebody that you can.

 it all out to not have to worry about how you say it, what you say, what your real feelings are, 

 that whole thing of like, you get caught up, but you find people that don't have a dog in the fight and then you just get the relief of being able to go somewhere.

 I would kind of compare it to unbuckling your pants at Thanksgiving after the meal. Right. You're like, Oh, okay. So let me tell you the whole truth. And so we've got all these, listeners that, at least a fraction of them think that you're pretty cool. And given your story, you can also relate to a lot of the things that make them not want to go to therapy.

And you use the V word, that vulnerability. And what have you learned about your own willingness to be vulnerable through your own journey? of mental health care, getting a diagnosis. are you on medication, or do you just use coping skills? No, I'm on medication, which also I've had bad views about in the past.

I think that's a big part of why I never wanted to talk to people. I was like, just don't want to take any medication. I never did. And then I did, and I was like, wait,

whoa. This is allowing me to go through these checklists, like, I can sit down the night before and write down a list of all those stupid little petty things that I can't accomplish and I'll have them done by 10 a.

m. the 

next day. And then I can spend the whole rest of the day editing and doing the things that I like to do. But I couldn't do that before. I mean, I just straight up could not do it. again, we've talked about it a million times. Like, you get told lazy. It's told that you can't, you're bad.

You're like, well, you can't, you're just not committed. You're not doing this. And it's like, bullshit. that's not me at all. It's just that for whatever reason, I can't click on it right now. I just cannot lock into that right now. maybe tonight at 1am I'll be able to lock into it, which doesn't make a lick of sense, but it has happened my whole life.

 This is kind of that commonality and story growing up. I didn't want to do a lot of things that my older family members including his mom, my sister and other sister and my mom. they were a little, housekeeper kind of people and wanted to learn how to cook and so and clean and.

That was just not interesting to me and so I got tagged as lazy and I don't know about you, it kind of sounds like this and Aaron can even attest to this. I've turned into a workaholic because I don't know what normal looks like. I overcompensate. Yeah, it's like I can prove to myself constantly that I am doing good and the only way to do that is more.

And I think along those lines too, there's certain things I've realized that I use okay, so for example, one reason that I think I love to work out, and I just talked to my therapist about this, one of the reasons I love to work out is if I'm in good shape and I can haul ass up the mountain, you can't tell me I'm lazy.

You know what I mean? it's like a defense, right? It's like, I don't work out because I need to look good. Or want to, I could really care less. It's because I don't want people to call me lazy. And I just think that that's like a defense, you know? And again, that makes me feel vulnerable, it's like, Yeah, it's probably not my most proud thing to say that that's a defensive thing. But it is. Like, it really is. I motivate myself by thinking of the people that tell me that you can't. that rings in my ears, like I can still hear, very specific words of what people told me when I was in middle school all the way up to yesterday.

And I use that as like a drive. It's like, no, I'm going to prove you wrong, and one way to do that is work out, That's also hard work you can prove too, right? Yeah. Like if I can, if I can. Do a 14er. Right. Or if I can beat you in a race or whatever.

It's like I can prove. I can run fast. Yeah, it's proof that I worked hard at that, but you know. Whatever. I'm certainly not slamming any part of our family, but even the joking text that I sent about walking over because everybody was saying, Oh, well, Zach will show up at nine o'clock after all the dishes are done and everybody's eaten.

 And it's usually because he has gotten into a hyper focus mode and it's working. And so, yeah. Just because it is what it is and it becomes a joke Like it basically resonates the same way as being told that you're lazy yeah, it is what it like stop yeah, If I get there at nine, I get there at nine.

And the funny thing is that that has not happened yet. The whole time I've been here in Denver, you have, I don't ever get there. I mean, yeah, they're all see that it's the exaggeration of it. Well, and I think that then ultimately whatever topic it is to people start to believe that, and then you, like if you're the one that's getting.

You know targeted in that you start to believe that and then that can have lasting effects to where even if you do improve okay let's say I am being inconvenient or I'm being a problem I'll try to adjust like you said you haven't seen it because I've been trying to set aside some boundaries and set aside some time.

And I'm here and he wants to hang out with me because I'm one of his favorite aunts. What did you said that? But people don't believe that. And then they never, lose it either. So that's where this spiral of, like, trying to prove something always ends up happening for me, at least. It's like, well, you already believe that.

Well, I'm going to keep working really hard to prove you wrong. for example, somebody might have said something like I mentioned in middle school that they would, no way they'd ever remember saying that, but I remember it. And it's like, you know, they're, they are not thinking about you.

Yeah. Their years of not thinking about that. They don't care. They don't believe that anymore. They don't even remember saying, right. Yeah. And they certainly don't believe it anymore. But here, people That also have these mental hangups, here we are sitting there like, no, I'm still going to prove you wrong.

Right. That's like, it's ridiculous. And it's a waste of time in the long run, but I guess I just think that, yeah, as a whole, I feel that just being able to address that there is some difference and that there is something here and that we can continue to work forward has been the biggest change.

Yeah. Recently is instead of just being like well man like I'm just lazy. 

That's 

Erin: just how I am. 

Zach/Cinn: right 

Erin: over it.

Zach/Cinn: and it is but that's not necessarily working in your favor and that's okay, you know like sometimes it is sometimes it's not and also I think there is that balance of recognizing what you said like I have come to think of a lot of aspects of my ADHD as that superpower and it allows me to do so much that I don't know if I would, I guess I think maybe it's part of my personality, even though it's probably like symptoms.

Mm-hmm. , but they're symptoms that are working in my favor and so I don't wanna negate. No. Yeah. I think there definitely is. I mean, a couple that stick out to me are creativity and then also , isn't the age hyperactivity. So like, if you're listening to this right now, you can tell that Cinnamon and I just have a lot of energy.

That's also something I'm really proud of. I'm proud of my aunt. I'm proud of people that have energy because I think that that's cool. I think it brings like this whole, , Yeah, It can bring out a lot of fun. It can bring out a lot of just like positive energy when people have a lot of it.

It can also, it can also spin and be bad in some situations, but for the most part, I'm really proud of having a lot of energy. And when you say energy, it's not just so that you can like run up a hill, but that you're enthusiastic And you are like welcoming and you're the guy that everybody thinks they're best friends with Because like my mom used to always say cinnamon's never met a stranger and this is this constant battle with Zach and I've been trying to be real good During the podcast, but like Zach and I can out talk each other like the other night and we'll wrap up at this the other night like Zach called and said, Hey, I'm coming through.

Can I stop and sleep over? And I'm like, yes, of course. And he was like, I'm not going to get there until like one. Can you please go to bed? So you won't be awake because I got to get up and work in the morning. Because he knows that if I was awake when he got there, we wouldn't have gone to bed. We'd have just kept talking and talking and talking.

Because this is what we do. And like, I guess one, other example is, and we talk about the energy. It's like a friend of mine that also has ADHD is Colin He's been on, the THP videos as well. Anybody that's watched a lot of them would know. Of Colin from elk hunting videos or Ohio videos.

Anyway, Colin is also that person. He's got so much energy and he's so fun to be around that. there's rarely a time. I mean, if you don't like Colin when you meet him, you probably just don't like anybody, you know, like yeah,

you're just like going into it with a bad attitude I do think that's like a really cool skill. I mean,because not everybody does that and that's okay too, but you got to have both in the world, right?

You got to have the people with a lot of energy and then the people that don't have as much energy and when those two people combine, then it kind of balances the world out. So we're like the host of the party, right? Like, come on in, do you need a drink? Snacks over there, you know, the DJ's name is Bob, like go put in a couple of suggestions.

Yup. 

Erin: Well, I, what, what I wanted to say though, what I really,

yeah, 

Zach/Cinn: this episode? Yeah. Yeah. 

Erin: this past hour and 20 minutes. what I love about this particular episode because it is a little off the rails for what we do. is the fact that there is this common conversation, I believe, and I think Cinnamon would agree with the folks that we work with, that they're like terminally unique in some capacity with how they feel, with how they act, or that it's just centralized to the particular demographic that they are, and what you're proving right now is that that is inaccurate, That this isn't like a, I am a first responder type of thing.

This is, I am a human being, I am struggling with these particular things. I too am in this hyper masculine career and I get it. And there's nothing wrong with me. I just get to learn how to adapt. and yes, you've been doing it, right? You've been hanging on, but that's the difference between surviving and thriving.

 everything you've said tonight, I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's me. It's me. It's me. I'm going to make my husband listen to this episode because I drive him nuts. And he feels like I am, being neglectful in a lot of ways by not being present. And I'm like, I can't not. Do it. And so, like you were explaining about doing little tidbits of editing, any second you can get in between you trying to navigate everybody else's emotions and feelings.

And what it looks like to our loved ones is that all we're doing is working. And it's like, no, I just did the thing. I had dinner, but I have this five minutes that I could do some work. And, so to them, it looks like we are obsessive and like, we don't care about anything else. And it's not, intentional, you know, it's like,

Zach/Cinn: Yeah, that's the word. It's not intentional because it, might actually be that we are obsessive, like

Erin: Yeah.

Zach/Cinn: it's a compulsion that you can't deny, right? Like I have to, if I don't, it's going to eat me. Just give me five minutes, go do it. And then I'll quote be done. But if I don't, I can't even be present because all I'm going to be thinking about is that yeah.

and Erin, I want you to be able to talk. I just want to say one thing is we're talking specifically about Zach and his, coming into an ADHD diagnosis and, what he's gained from it. But really, if we zoom out, it's like, what happens when Your coping skills, your survival skills, or even your thrive skills in another environment, no longer work.

 and when you hit that wall and things aren't fine anymore, how you are willing to get vulnerable, be open minded. And push through that to get to the better side. And like Zach said, he is not cured. He is not perfect. It's an ongoing thing. And my God, I've been diagnosed, you know, 15 years and I still terrible at a lot of things, but at least, you know, and knowing is half the battle 

and it's that overarching theme of like,

there is a good reason to take this on and no one is so.

special 

Erin: special 

Zach/Cinn: can also not 

Erin: also not benefit I think you just hit the nail on the head and on top of that, I want to say to the listeners, if you haven't checked out the hunting public, check it out.

 even if you're not a hunter, I am not a hunter. And I swear I did a zoning night where I I'm like, it's three in the morning and I've been watching hunting videos for the past five hours. And I'm like, what are they, are they going to get it? And like, and like, I don't even care about that at all, but it was, you know, I just saw myself get sucked in.

Zach/Cinn: and 

they're hilarious. 

Erin: not only are they doing what they love, but you can tell they love it because of camaraderie, which our folks can totally understand that connection. it is funny. It's fun. so definitely check out the hunting public. I know you're on YouTube, obviously.

 Are you on Amazon? Is that a thing? Isn't that wild? It's like, Oh yes, I'm on it.

Zach/Cinn: He's like, you can get on Amazon prime, like TV, the Amazon video, and there you can find 

Erin: Yeah.

Zach/Cinn: Yeah. 

Erin: what about the podcast? Where can folks listen to You guys?

Zach/Cinn: So any, podcast platform, you can find it, but we also just started doing video as well, which we created a whole nother channel for the hunting public podcast. There's links in, if you know of our regular videos and you're trying to find the podcast, you can check. First, you could just type in YouTube THP podcast and it'll probably come up.

And then, , if not, we always have links in the descriptions of all of the hunting videos or like the audio podcast. So. that's kind of the new thing I would say. And then, social platforms, same thing, just the hunting public pretty much. I always say just start at Google and then work 

Erin: Yeah, if you type in The Hunting Public, everything's gonna be in chronological order from when the last post was. Probably, for like two pages of Google. . So, I think it's so fun that Cinnamon, you went out there and Zach that you were willing to jump on board and have a conversation about your life, what you do, what you're passionate about, what keeps you going, and some of the struggles that you come up against because it's beings, man.

We're all human beings.

Zach/Cinn: Yeah. And it can look like you have it together if you only see a snapshot, and that's not always a hundred percent accurate. I think that's my 

final thoughts on it all is I think when things are good, they're good. But when they're bad, don't be afraid to like address something, you know, because all of a sudden it can be so bad that you're just, again, miserable.

And that's just not a fun place to be. Nobody wants to be there. And at some point or another, we're probably all going to get there so many things can change so many variables, just like hunting public land. There's so many things that we can't control that can happen to us.

And if you're not addressing those problems, then you're gonna probably have, a harder time. And I just think that, everybody's gonna have different levels of it and never think that, your problem isn't a problem, I guess. Even though sometimes I do that, and I still, I'm gonna sit here and tell you too, like, I'm also very thankful that I have the problems that I do.

I'm very thankful that I have the team that I work with. Very thankful that, we've been able to do all the things that we have done through the hunting public. I'm thankful for Whitney. I'm thankful my family. , definitely, definitely that, but there's still like. They're starving children in East Asia, and it still sucks when you get a flat tire on the side of 75.

That's right. I mean, I'm not too worried about that, personally, but I get your point. Yes, you got this. I thrive in those situations. Like, yeah, let's get that tire. Oh, big problem. You know, ooh, problem on the road. Give me a problem on the road. I like that. Unless we get a drawer stuck. 

That's a whole nother, and we don't have time for that. I could not be more proud of this kid. he is one of my favorite humans and he has been since he was born, even though I did have to, , cancel a date the day he was born because. , I had plans and couldn't go and my mom said, if you don't go, you'll regret it.

And I absolutely would have, but him and his, brother, are the closest thing that I have to kids. And my God, I love them to pieces. And, I'm excited to be able to do this with him and I'm excited that we have a common diagnosis and that, you know, we can talk about these things and, I don't have to ask for an autograph.

And, I just have other, Things that already have your signature on them. 

Erin: You also, share genes. I mean, genetics. Like, that is an autograph right there. 

Zach/Cinn: I guess one other final thought is I do enjoy this conversation.

I feel like it's just something that I'm always down for, and I appreciate you guys having me on to, talk about it. I mean, I feel like it's been a lot of fun and hopefully, it's been somewhat relatable to someone or somebody, has some positive out of it.

Cause sometimes I do feel like Cinnamon and I just get to ramble and so hopefully it's not all just rambling and somebody has some takeaways or. Or whatever. Usually when we ramble it's at one o'clock in the morning and it's just the two of us and we'll have already left Everybody else is in bed The other thing too is also if anybody wants to talk about something You know, you can always reach out to me as well Like if something's bothering you and you may be struggling with something too, like i'm happy to talk about it I'm, not the therapist by any means but and it may take you two weeks.

My like let's be 

real. 

Erin: Which isn't a whole lot different than us right now.

Zach/Cinn: We are the therapists and it's still gonna take 

us two weeks. 

Erin: it is what it is. Well,

Zach/Cinn: So can we put all of your THP stuff in our show notes so people can find us? Yeah. Alright, and then maybe in the future we can do another crossover episode and Aaron and I can don some camo and, go out in the woods with you and hang out around the campfire.

Erin: No,

Zach/Cinn: no, like, we're not gonna whisper!

Erin: to talk low like that. Is that how you do it? Talk low. Cinnamon has no talking lobe abilities. 

It's like, 

it's like her normal level is a shout. 

Zach/Cinn: I've been watching the, mic bounce, and when I'm talking right now it's about halfway. And when I 

Erin: it goes 

into like, it goes into like red. This is why you guys are on the same track. And I'm like, I'm just, this is cause.

oh my joke was Yeah, so on their show, we'll don the camo and they'll be like Don't come out of the woods until you actually. get something. And then it'll be like two weeks later and we'll be dehydrated and crying and

Zach/Cinn: We'll have like that black smeary stuff all over our face and 

Erin: I'm like, 

Zach/Cinn: we'll like have a stuffed 

squirrel just 

Erin: got a squirrel.

Zach/Cinn: in 

Erin: Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Y'all go, enjoy your night. I promised my kids ice cream and now it's 9 PM in Ohio. So let's go get crazy. Hopped on 

a bunch of sugar. Thanks.

Zach/Cinn: Made a noise.

Erin: know. Thanks, Zach. I appreciate

Zach/Cinn: Yeah, 

Erin: We'll talk to you guys later. Nice to finally meet 

you. 

Zach/Cinn: Yeah.