Ultimate Surrender: With Monica Braun

EP26-Ultimate Surrender

00:00:00 Monica: I started off my career in Jersey City and I eventually transferred to the Trenton offices. I was talking to one of my parolees, then she started telling me about when she was molested as a little girl. And then all of a sudden I started getting flashbacks. I always knew something happened, but I never could remember the details. We had an organization called Cop2Cop, and they gave me a number to a therapist. So I spoke to her, I dealt with the issues, but I minimized my drink. I already had told myself that the next time I messed up, that I was just going to go and kill myself. And I said, God, please help me. And that's when I called 911. Doesn't matter what I did, I just could not get out of that hole. And it was just a dark place that I never want to be ever again. And I know that if I drink, that's what's going to happen. I'm going to die. So I fight on a daily basis.

00:01:04 Cinnamon: It's the first responder, the first to get the call, the first on scene, greeted by God knows what, pushed beyond the limits that they don't even set. Then what happens? You're listening to After The Tones Drop. We're your hosts. I'm Cinnamon, a first responder trauma therapist who founded our practice after seeing the need for specialized care following a local line of duty death.

00:01:31 Erin: And I'm Erin. I'm a first responder integration coach.

00:01:35 Cinnamon: We help first responders receive transformational training, therapy, and coaching.

00:01:41 Erin: Now we come to you to explore demystify and destigmatize, mental health and wellness for first responders.

00:01:50 Cinnamon: Our show brings you stories from real first responders, the tools they've learned, the changes they've made, and the lives they now get to live.

00:02:07 Erin: We're teeing up today's episode a little bit differently than we normally do, which is we are introducing our guest after the fact. Let me tell you why. Before our interview started with our guest that we're going to have on today, she was vulnerable and trusting enough to share a very challenging call that she had made to emergency services in regards to her seriously considering taking her own life. Now, while Monica asked that we don't share the 911 call with our listeners, she wants to keep it close to her vest. She does use this call for trainings and in various academies that she goes and speaks to. She asked that we keep that 911 call private.

00:02:57 Erin: So I say all that to say that we were all three a little bit knocked off our axis leading up and leading into this particular interview because, of course, we didn't know what we were going to be hearing. And then, of course, she had to relive it all over again. So, it did take us a little bit of time to kind of rewrite ourselves from where we were. But just to let you know a little bit about our guest before we hop into the interview, our guest today is Monica Braun, and she is a resilient and courageous individual whose journey through life has been marked by remarkable strength, transformation, and a powerful commitment to helping others.

00:03:35 Erin: Monica grew up in New Jersey. She was born in Patterson, New Jersey, and in 1998, her law enforcement career began. In July of that year, Monica embarked on a new chapter of her career when she entered the Parole Officer Police Academy in Sea Girt, New Jersey. Graduating exactly one month after the tragic events of 9/11, she was thrust into the world of parole and law enforcement during a challenging and tumultuous period for our nation. Monica served as parole officer in Jersey City until December of 2004, when then she was transferred into the Trenton office, where she dedicated her service ever since. Her commitment to her profession is exemplified by her 25-plus years in law enforcement, during which she has faced numerous challenges and experiences that have shaped her journey. 

00:04:24 Erin: And Monica will get into this part a little bit, but in 2011, Monica's life took an unexpected turn, leading her into a dark place. A buried childhood memory, triggered by one of her female parolees, unleashed a series of nightmares and flashbacks that sent her spiraling into a struggle with addiction and mental health. Her battle was fierce, but Monica's strength prevailed. She found the courage to ask for help, despite her lifelong belief in her self-sufficiency. On March 3rd, 2019, she stood at a crossroads with a gun under her chin, contemplating ending it all. Instead, she found the strength to reach out to God and ask for help. This marked the beginning of her journey to recovery, with her sobriety date set as March 6th, 2019. That day, she entered rehab in Florida. 

00:05:12 Erin: Today, Monica's mission is to share her story and inspire others to seek help and healing. She emphasizes that it's okay to ask for assistance, even for first responders who often carry the heavy burden of their profession. She speaks to recruit classes, sharing her journey during their in-service training, and is a presenter at the CIT training in Burlington County, where she bravely recounts her experience over and over again.

00:05:42 Erin: A quick heads up before we start, we want to acknowledge that some of the content we discuss on our show can be triggering for some listeners. Some of our episodes may touch upon themes like traumatic experiences, PTSD, suicide, and line of duty deaths. We understand that these topics are sensitive and might evoke difficult emotions. If you are currently struggling with your mental health or have experienced traumatic events recently, listen with caution.

00:06:08 Erin: You may consider taking periodic breaks or skipping the episode altogether. We want to thank you for joining us today. Your dedication to serving our community is inspiring, and we're here to support you in any way that we can. Now, if you're ready to proceed, let's begin.

00:06:29 Erin: I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm actually, I just pushed, record because I didn't want her audio on our recording. But I think that what we're talking about right now is important because while they don't need to hear the recording, I think the fact that it even occurred is very important for the listeners to hear about the level of distress.  And so, we are with our guest Monica today. And Monica just shared with us a very powerful and deep emergency services call that was made by her when she was in a position of distress and needed help. And so while we're not going to play that recording for you to protect her, we think that it's important that you do hear where she was and what we gathered from that particular call before we kind of get into her story as a whole. So Cinnamon, can you re-ask that question? And I'm sorry, Monica, I didn't mean to...We were in a zone and then I'm like, it felt important to be recording.

00:07:31 Cinnamon: Like I said, that I can only imagine that when you do your presentations that takes the experience of your audience to a completely different level and makes it very much real for them and not just a narrated story. The dispatcher had asked your name several times. And you didn't respond with an answer until a couple minutes in. And so, I had two thoughts about that. One, you were clearly in distress, and it could have just been a lack of processing, a lack of being able to hear what she was saying, not being able to put together, she's asking me a question that I need to answer.

00:08:12 Cinnamon: Or it is a big deal that you reached out to your own people by way of 911. I think when we talk to folks, that's a huge issue of where do I go? Who do I sit next to? What does it look like in an emergency room? And for you to call 911 speaks volumes to where you were mentally that this was a desperate situation. But was it the cognitive piece where you just weren't processing? Or did it feel like, yes, you made the call, but as soon as you gave your name, that was maybe the point of not turning? Where you could make a call and be anonymous, but once you disclosed who you were, that was like a completely different level of asking for help.

00:09:01 Monica: I think it was a combo of both. I remember bits and pieces of that, me calling and at the end when the officer came to my door. In between, I didn't remember until I heard it. But I think it took so much of me to make the call that I think it was just like, just come find me. Like, you don't need to know who I am, just come find me. And then I guess eventually I did. I just said my name. I guess maybe at that point I had fully given up, not given up, but just surrendered to the fact that I needed help. So, yeah, I think it's a combination of both. I'm not sure.

00:09:43 Cinnamon: And that would make perfect sense that they were both at work in that moment and the level of vulnerability that that took, which obviously you have to have an immense amount of strength to be willing to be that vulnerable. So thank you for saving your own life, and thank you for letting us listen to that. I appreciate it.

00:10:10 Erin: Yeah, it's so fantastic to have you here. We know that you had to cross some hurdles and bridges in order to be here today, but the cool thing that I want our listener to know is that you reached out to us as an interested party to get on here and tell your story, because that's what you're up to now. Is going around to different groups and telling your story so that folks can see, I imagine, that they're not alone and that there are tools and ways out of those distressing situations when you might feel like there is no other option.

00:10:48 Erin: And so, thank you to your department for allowing you to be here today and for kind of jumping through the hoops that it took to get here. And so, Monica, if we could kind of rewind a little bit. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you're doing these days, what department you work for, where you're from, all of those details. That's kind of the platform that we hold here is an opportunity for you to share your story in this space. And then we might interject here and there to ask questions, just to kind of elaborate. Does that sound good?

00:11:23 Monica: Sounds perfect.

00:11:24 Erin: Okay, great.

00:11:27 Monica: All right. So my name is Monica. I started off my career in Jersey City and I eventually transferred to the Trenton offices, which is where I am now. I work currently in the office of administrative services. So, it's more of an admin position and wasn't by choice, but then I realized that it was a blessing and, you know, God put me there for a reason. So that's where I am. I have over 25 years and I will be retiring November 1st. Yes, I was going to wait, but my shoulder's killing me. I need to get surgery done to my rotator cuff. I'm sure a lot of other folks out there can relate to that.

00:12:18 Monica: And I just think I need to do it for me and, you know, I was staying because we were setting up a wellness program in my agency and I wanted to see it through. I think I need to retire and doing stuff for me again. I forget sometimes and I still want to do the people pleasing and, you know, help others where, you know, I have to reel myself back and say, no, you need to retire, take care of your shoulder and everything else that needs to be taken care of. And, you know, I still will be helping out. You know, I told my department that, give me a call if you guys need anything, I'm available. I'm just going to be nursing a shoulder back to health, so I'll be around. So I'm still going to be helping. I just won't physically be there. So that's where I am. I'm ready and excited to start a new chapter for sure.

00:13:15 Erin: Well, and I think that whether you're active or retired, you can have that same level of impact when it comes to the wellness aspect. What you can't always do when you're active, but you can do when you're retired, is that level of guilt-free self-care. Right? Like you are the priority and you help over here versus work being the priority and you get your own crumbs, right?

00:13:48 Erin: How did it feel to finally say, I'm going to choose me. I'm going to retire. I'm going to do this.

00:13:56 Monica: It was bittersweet, actually, you know, excited because I'm a crier too, so.

00:14:03 Erin: No worry, don't worry.

00:14:07 Monica: I didn't think that day was going to come. You know, I worked really hard to get to that 25 where I can retire. And it feels good that I was able to get to that point where I can retire. Because I didn't think that was going to happen.

00:14:25 Cinnamon: Yeah. Is that because you didn't know if you were going to be here to see 25 or that you were going to be able to continue in the work for the 25?

00:14:40 Monica: Both, you know, at first it was, you know, not going to reach my retirement because, you know, I just can't deal with life anymore. And then when I… when all that happened, there was like, Oh, my God, I worked so hard to get to this point and I'm going to have my job. And all that work I did was for nothing. That's how I felt. So I think it's a combination of both.

00:15:06 Cinnamon: Well, I think you're an example of something so important that I don't want it to the moment to pass by and not mention it is that to be in the situation that you were in and to ask for help and to be able to get the help you needed and to come back. I feel like there's so many people that would probably think being in your situation, you are beyond the point of return and how incredible it is that you can actually be in that car with that gun, make that 911 call and still be where you are today, which is on a healthy recovery journey with a retirement ready to kick in.

00:15:56 Monica: Yeah, it's incredible. Really, it is. I'm very fortunate.

00:16:02 Cinnamon: So, I think you're a testament to how it's you're never too far as long as you're still here.

00:16:10 Monica: Yeah, as long as you have that fight.

00:16:13 Cinnamon: Yeah, absolutely.

00:16:19 Erin: Hey there, listener. If you could ask any question or freely talk about any challenge related to being on the job and no one would know, what would you say? We are excited to share about our confidential hotline that we created just for you. Through this confidential hotline, you can leave a message sharing a success, a struggle, or simply ask a question. We will spotlight calls and offer feedback and insight from a licensed therapist and a certified coach who work exclusively with first responders. You can access our hotline voicemail by visiting afterthetonesdrop.com and clicking the voicemail tab.

00:17:00 Erin: Additionally, you can join our mailing list if you'd like, or easily follow us on Facebook and Instagram for all the most recent updates. You know the drill. Tell a phone, tell a friend, tell a first responder.

00:17:25 Erin: Monica, would you be open to, kind of talking to us about what happened leading up to that time? And you can be as specific as you feel comfortable with. But what did things look like for you? Obviously, you were in this active career. I'm not going to necessarily assume that whatever got you to that point was solely from the job at hand. But can you tell us a little bit about what was going on with you leading up to that phone call?

00:17:56 Monica: I'll start off with that day and then I'll have to backtrack and a little description or, you know, a little, little information on how I got to that point. So, I clearly remember the day. It was a Sunday. It was cold out and it was our first snow. I worked that morning from six to two. I came home. And at that point, I was drinking daily. And, you know, I thought it was a genius where I would open up a beer, put it on the counter, drink other stuff. And then when my husband would ask, oh, you're drinking, I'm just having one beer. I wasn't lying, but I didn't tell him about the other stuff in between the sips of beer. So my thing was, I like to drink while I cook. 

00:18:45 Monica: So, I was making dinner and my husband mentioned our son who has some developmental issues, more cognitive. He has very bad decision-making skills. So we were dealing for several months with him telling us he was going to work, but then going somewhere to park and sitting there for these four, six hours and he was supposed to be at work and then come back home like she was working. At that point, he was 26. So, my husband has a history of heart issues. He had several, of lesions done, a cardioversion, blood pressure goes through the ropes. I was really concerned about his health and the issues with our son really made that worse for him, his blood pressure. So I don't know how drunk I was at that point, but I guess I was really drunk by then. And he told me and it just enraged me. 

00:19:51 Monica: And I went up to talk to him and I don't remember the exact words, but he says something to the effect of, I don't want to talk to you or get out of my room. I don't want to talk to you, something like that. And I punched him in the face. And at that point, I left his room. I had already, you know, with suicides, it's always, we always have a plan. There's, it's not just a, or the moment thing, like people may think. I already had told myself that the next time I messed up, that I was just going to go and kill myself. I wasn't going to do it at home because I didn't want my family to have to deal with those memories in the house. So I took my off-duty, because that weapon has a softer trigger pulse. It's easier to fire than my duty weapon. I had my no shoes on, just like fuzzy socks, my Wonder Woman pants on, and a t-shirt, and I left. 

00:20:53 Monica: Went down the road and I sat there and I had the gun under my chin and my finger on the trigger and I just couldn't do it. I couldn't pull it. I have a crucifix hanging on my rear view mirror. And for the first time, I truly asked God for help and I said, "God, please help me." And that's when I called 911. And then in the meantime, my husband's calling me. I'm trying to hang up with him and I'm hysterical. And it was the hardest thing I ever did was to make that call. It was the hardest thing. And it's funny because I was a teenage mom. And I raised my daughter by myself with the help of my parents, but basically by myself, put her through Catholic school. I went to college while I was working and all of that. I did all that. And that was hard, but for me, that wasn't, that was just what I needed to do to raise my daughter. That was just, I don't know, it was like a natural thing to do. You know, get your shit together, finish school, go to college, you know, raise her. 

00:22:12 Monica: That was hard. I know it now, but I don't, didn't never realize how hard that was for me to do and still do everything that I accomplished. But, making the call asking for help, way harder in my mind to do. Rewinding back to how it got to that point, I'm trying to think of the year. I think it was 2012. I was talking to one of my parolees, a female, and I forgot what the situation was, but then she started telling me about when she was molested as a little girl. And then all of a sudden I started getting flashbacks of what happened to me. And I started visibly shaking and I got her out of my office. She was like, are you okay? I was like, yep, I'm fine. You know, just go home. I'll see you at home. 

00:23:11 Monica: One of these days, you know, I'll see you then. And I remember coming back to my office. Then dropping off whatever I had, I might have had paperwork in my hands, I'm not sure. Went to the bathroom, splashed water in my face, calmed myself down, said, "Okay, you know, calm down. You got to do your work." This next part I don't remember doing, but I was told later on that I did. So apparently I went into my lieutenant's office, told him what happened. And I said, "I'm okay, I'm going back to work." And I went back to work. Then the nightmares started and you, waking up in the middle of the night, screaming, top of my lungs crying. And, you know, I've always knew something happened, but I never could remember the details. Cause you know, our brain is a wonderful thing. It does that for us. 

00:24:12 Monica: And I don't know why that day I had that flashback. I've worked with people with that have, you know, dealt themselves with sexual abuse for so long that I don't know why that day, just whatever happened to that day, it clicked. And I started getting those memories and my husband was like, you need to do something about this because you can't live like this. And in the meantime, I'm drinking so I can fall asleep. And then I'm drinking so I don't fall asleep because I don't want to start the dream or the nightmares. So, I'm drinking for, to fall asleep and not to fall asleep. So here in New Jersey, we have the, an organization called Cop2Cop. 

00:25:02 Monica: So I called them and told them what was going on. And they gave me a number to a therapist who I love her, Dr. Marshall, she's the best, who deals with first responders in, military. So I spoke to her. I dealt with the issues. I, you know, till this day, I don't have any flashbacks. And if I did, I think I can deal with that. But I minimized my drinking to her. I told her that I drank, but I minimized how much I was drinking, you know. So she never knew the extent of my drinking. So eventually I stopped seeing her and the drinking continued to the point where again, my husband was like, you need to do something about this. And I didn't think I had a problem at that point, but to appease him, I said, okay, I'll call Dr. Marshall again. I still minimized how much I was drinking, but I told her a little, that I was drinking a little more than what I used to tell her. 

00:26:05 Monica: And she always told me, I was like, you know, you might want to think of, about, taking medication because you have PTSD and then you have depression and anxiety. But no way, I'm not taking medication. If work finds out that they're taking my gun, I will not be able to do my job. No, no, no. So, I spoke to her for some time. I don't remember how long. And then eventually I said, you know what? I think I'll take medication. Always asking, are you sure that they're not going to find out? No, they're not going to find out. So I took the medication and I was feeling better. And I wasn't drinking as much, but I was still drinking. And somehow I convinced the psychiatrist to take me off the medication. I said, no, I feel good. I think I can get off of them. Well, that was because I was on medication. I was feeling good. And she did. I'm shocked that she did, but she did. 

00:27:05 Monica: And at that point, I was like, all right, so if I stick to beer and wine, I'll be good. This is the hard stuff that really gets me out there. I was a blackout junk with the, I liked vodka and whiskey. So those two were my nemesis. So wine and beer took to them. And I thought I was okay for a little bit until, you know, wine and beer wasn't enough. And I started with the hard stuff again and sneaking it and buying bottles, hiding them in the house, going to different liquor stores because I didn't want the owners to think I was an alcoholic because I wasn't. So that lasted for years and me trying to, you know, hide it from my husband. And my husband's also a cop, K-9 handler and retired combat vet. Yeah, he knew I was drinking and I lied to his face and he never called me out on it. 

00:28:16 Monica: And not sure why, but he never called me out on it. And so I kept drinking to the point where I was calling out of work a lot because one thing I made sure was I did not go to work hungover because I didn't want to be a liability to my partner or everyone else out there. So I took a lot of time off. I blew a lot of my time doing that, but I couldn't go to work drunk. That was, you know, one of my big things was you can't go to work like that. God forbid something happens and then they take your blood alcohol and then you're done because you're intoxicated at work. So I made sure that that wasn't what I did. I did the bare minimum at work because I just wasn't, my mind was just not into it. You know I, when I was at work, I did my work and I concentrated on that. 

00:29:12 Monica: But as soon as it came time to leave, it's like that switch turned on and all I thought about was, "All right, I'm on my way home. Do I have any bottles at home? If not, then which was the liquor store I was going to go to?" And that was my life for the last two years of my drinking career. It was just wondering if I had enough liquor at home and where to go get it if I didn't. And, you know, my mouth would start to water the closer I got home because I knew I was going to be able to get a drink. In 2017, so that was five years of that, I started thinking, maybe you have a problem. And every day I would drive home from work and say to myself, I'm not going to drink today. I'm not going to drink today, and drink today. But as soon as I got through that door, bottles were calling my name. 

00:30:14 Monica: And November of 2017, I actually called a rehab and it was one that dealt with just first responders in Florida. And it was, a day after Thanksgiving. And I'm not sure if it was that they were short handed or what. They said, they took my information down and said, someone will call you back. But by then I had already changed my mind. And you know, then it was another two years of hell of drinking and hating myself and not thinking I was worth it. I just had lost hope. You know, I felt that I was a burden. You know, I was just causing pain and just a distraction at home. You know, it was just, everyone walked on eggshells around me because they weren't sure how my mood was. And I just hated being home. Yeah, that's how my last two years of my drinking was just feeling less than. 

00:31:21 Monica: And, doesn't matter what I did, I just could not get out of that hole. And it was just a dark place that I never want to be ever again. And I know that if I drink, that's what's going to happen. I'm going to die. So I fight my addiction on a daily basis. And I never thought that that's how addiction worked. When I went to rehab, one of the therapists said, you know, when you get home, your addiction is really going to try to get you to come back. And if you do, it's going to be 10 times worse than when you stopped drinking. And I was like, yeah, whatever, I got this, you know, I'm cured, right? I went to rehab, I'm cured. 

00:31:13 Monica: But I did take in everything they told me. I was just a sponge. I was just like, please help me, give me all the information I need to stay sober because I need to be alive. So I remember she said, when, because not if, it's when your addiction starts talking to you again, because it will. Just tell it to go fuck itself and repeat that as many times as you need to for that thought to leave your head. It's like, all right, okay. She's crazy, but okay. Yeah, that's not gonna happen. So I go down to rehab on Ash Wednesday. I came home on Holy Thursday. So to me, that was a sign from God that if you can make it through this, you know, you're, you're going to make it and you're going to be okay. 

00:33:05 Monica: So good Friday, I'm making dinner. And sure enough, I was home no less than 24 hours and it was calling me and I was like, holy shit, she was right. And I told it to go fuck itself. I don't know how for how long, but I did it until that feeling went away and it went away and it scared the hell out of me. Because I was like, oh, my God, this is going to be a lifelong thing. Like I have to work daily on my sobriety. And it wasn't something that I thought, you know, I used to get upset at some of my pro leads if they went to rehab and then came out and then like used right away. I'm like, what are you doing? Like, you just went to rehab. Like, why did you use again? 

00:33:52 Monica: And now I know why, like that, because then your addiction is so powerful that it takes over if you let it. And I just never understood that. And I do now because it's definitely something that takes over everything. It takes over your entire life. You know, alcohol became my friend, my confidant, my lover, my, you know, everything. Nothing mattered unless I had alcohol and it just almost ruined my life. I don't want any other first responders to feel that they have to be stuck in that darkness and that there is hope that you can, you know, get out of that and get help. It wasn't easy getting to, you know, 2019 to where I am now. You know, I had an IA investigation for work. I had simple thought domestic violence charged against me. And I had to deal with all that and being suspended without pay. 

00:35:01 Monica: There was so much that I had to deal with and I made it through with, you know, without drinking and it wasn't easy. And I thank God that I had money saved, that I wasn't worried about paying bills. You know, my husband was like, well, how are we going to pay the bills? I'm like, it's okay. It'll work out. You know, I'm trying to be positive with everything. And it did, you know, there was nothing I had to worry about. Charges were dismissed. I got suspended from work. I think it was 60 days. I don't really remember, but I was able to get back to work. And I had a lot of restrictions. 

00:35:44 Monica: They took my gun for a year. I had to sign it in and out on a daily basis and I couldn't take it home. And I had to take a alcohol test monthly for two years. And I did all that. And, you know, at first when they took me off the streets, I was pissed off and I just had to, you know, accept the fact that that's how it was, you know, it's for a reason. I'm here for a reason and just go with the flow. So I did. And then they eventually. They had put me in evidence and I enjoyed it and I was, you know, doing okay. And then they pulled me from there, checked out, pissed off, at again, because someone decided that I shouldn't be around evidence, which most evidence units don't have, alcohol in evidence. And I didn't have access to anything. So, but again, I was mad, but I was like, you know what, it's for a reason.

00:36:46 Monica: And that reason was that now that I'm in the Office of Administrative Services, I was asked to help put together the wellness program for our officers. And if I was somewhere else, that probably wouldn't have happened. So, you know, I, things that happen in life right now, I just take it as it is. It's, you know, it's meant to be, you know, just go with the flow, you know. Another thing that I was told in rehab was, you know, don't time travel. Don't go back to the past because you can't fix it or change it. And don't travel to the future because you don't know what's going to happen and there's no point of getting yourself all worked up. Just deal with today, right now, in the moment. And that's what I try to do. It's not hard. I mean, it's hard. It's not easy. You know, sometimes my old self comes out, but I do reel myself in, you know, those meditation and some breath work that I thought was ridiculous when we did it in rehab, but that's what I use. 

00:35:55 Monica: And it's like, oh my God, this works. And thank God that I did it and learned how to do it because it has saved me from some outbursts. But yeah, that's my story in a few minutes. It was very hard, but it's very rewarding to get to this point and to be able to, you know, tell my story. I've gone to different places to tell my story. One of them is RCA, the one in Devon, PA. And how I got that was at my husband’s gig. So my husband's retired, but he works still with canines. And so they had a canine team at the facility making sure there was no drugs inside. And it happened to be the first responder unit that he went to. And whatever reason, he felt that he had to tell them about me and give them some encouragement. Like my wife, you know, this is what happened to her. She's doing okay. And so with him saying that, one of the directors said, Hey, do you think your wife would be okay with coming in and talking to everyone? I was like, of course I'll do it. You know, getting permission from work, of course.

00:39:16 Monica: And so he was going to do that. So I did. And. I try to tell my story as much as I can just to give people hope. And I talk to the recruits when they graduate from the academy. We usually have two classes a year. So I asked if I can tell my story and I've been doing that ever since 2020. It's rewarding just because I did have a couple officers ask me for help after they heard my story. And that's why I do it. You know, some people are like, aren't you embarrassed? Like, why do you tell people what happened to you? I was like, no, it was like, more of us don't talk, then there'll be more people that will take their vibes. And it's so important for people to know that. Yeah, you can go through a lot of stuff, but you can still work on it and you can still be here. 

00:40:14 Monica: We're human beings. Things affect us. A lot of people think just because we are the helpers, that we don't need help. Of course we need help. I always think the normal people, like civilians, if they heard half of the things that we see and read or deal with, they would be just as crazy as we are because it's not normal for you to listen to all that trauma and for it not to affect you. It's impossible unless you're a robot and we're not. 

00:40:47 Monica: While I was down in Florida at Florida House for rehab, during my last two weeks, I believe, that I was there, a dispatcher came in, female dispatcher, and she was also an alcoholic and reason for being there was due to all the trauma that she heard while working. And that really made me think about and respect the job of the dispatchers. And what I ended up doing was I think I had maybe 11 months sober and I decided to try to find the dispatcher that helped me that day. 

00:41:31 Monica: So I reached out to their communication center and I told them what I was trying to do and I eventually got an email from her boss and gave me her email address at work. So I sent her a little message, you know, thanking her for what she did for me that day. You know, how her calm voice was what helped me and, you know, kind of always thought of her as my angel that day. And she did respond back to me and sent me an email and it really touched me because me reaching out to her actually helped her as well. 

00:42:15 Monica: If I could read a little bit of the email she sent me, she says, I wanted to take the time to email you back to let you know I am so happy you're doing well. I have thought of you often since that call almost a year ago and I have wondered how you were doing. As a dispatcher, we all have certain calls that stay with us, and yours had stayed with me. There have been many days after work where I have questioned if I am making a difference, and now I know for at least one person I have. I am very proud of you for getting help and for staying sober. Just know that even though we have never met, that if you need anything, even just a talk, you can always reach out. And then she gives me her personal email. 

00:43:00 Monica: And it's funny because this past year, during my anniversary, for whatever reason, I just was feeling down and I just, I don't know, it was just, like all the emotions that I was feeling prior to my incident came back to me. And I never work on that day, so I didn't work and I kind of do a self-care day for myself and I just do things for me on that day. And I came out of a doctor's appointment and when I looked at my phone, she had sent me a message saying that she was thinking about me. So I just wanted to acknowledge the dispatchers and all the hard work that they do. 

00:43:51 Monica: They hear the raw emotion of the callers, and they truly are the first responders, because they have to stay calm in someone's most chaotic and most awful period of their time, going through whatever it is that they're going through, and they do their job to help us. And, you know, she holds, her name is Chrissy. She holds a really important part in my heart for being a calm voice to help me that day. So I just wanted to make sure that her and all the other dispatchers know that we do appreciate everything that they do. And we do, I do anyway, know that they also get the same trauma that we do. And I guess that's all. I just wanted to make sure that I acknowledged the work of the dispatchers and what they do and deal with on a day-to-day basis as well.

00:45:05 Cinnamon: Hey there to all you fearless folks who've been tuning in to After the Tones Drop. You know, we've been dishing out some real deal mental health wisdom for our first responders, and we need your help to keep it rolling. So here's the deal. Take a minute and do us a favor by leaving a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. And listen, we're not expecting a novel here, just a few lines about what you're appreciating about the show. whether it's our interviews, perhaps the educational aspect, or just our goofy humor and metaphors. And your feedback, it's like the gasoline in our engine, fueling us to bring you more of the good stuff. So let's keep that siren wailing and those reviews pouring in. Thanks. We appreciate you.

00:45:57 Erin: Monica, I just want to say that, the first thing I thought when you talked about, I don't know why they pulled me out of evidence and put me here and now I know because I got to help develop this wellness program or, you know, you are one of the front runners and getting that rolling out for your department was, and maybe you saw this, I know that we're friends on Facebook, but I posted something that just said, this was like two nights ago, what if God ruined your plans so that your plans wouldn't ruin you? 

00:46:30 Erin: And I just thought, oh my gosh, if that isn't the saying of all sayings, that so often we think, well, this is a bunch of bullshit. I deserve to be here, or this, that, or the other, or why am I here, or this, that, and the other. And then all of a sudden, in hindsight, we can look back and be like, I know exactly why that happened. And here you are, because you're right. If you all aren't telling your stories, then there's a good chance that other people will take their lives or they will think that they're all alone. And the more of you that step up and say, and have the courage, one, to tell their story, but also to tell the people that are like, aren't you embarrassed? Hell no, I'm not embarrassed. You know, that is incredible. And I'm just so thankful that you have that courage. I don't know, Cinnamon's raising her hand. I don't know if she could unmute herself. Okay.

00:47:25 Cinnamon: I can, or I was able to, but I hadn't been able to for about seven minutes. So you must have done something magical or that was just when God wanted me to speak. You know, I think when I hear you respond to somebody talking about the embarrassment, it's the embarrassment is what got you to that place. And embarrassment will kill us, right? Like that shame, the guilt, the embarrassment, the worry about others, judgment, all of that. I think that's a powerful opportunity to be able to have someone ask that question, right? It's not about that person who's asking it. It's about the question. So we can say like, yeah, embarrassment is real and the guilt and the shame is real. But it's also what damn near killed me. And I can't afford to let my concerns about what other people think of my path dictate whether or not I share my story. Because yeah, there might be people out there that judge you. And that's something that they get to deal with. 

00:48:40 Cinnamon: But there's going to be people, I've never heard anyone that we've spoke to or that I've worked with say, you know, I shared my story and oddly enough, no one has ever reached out to me, right? Once you start sharing your story, even if it's, you know, one person in 10 years, that is one person who maybe had a spouse or kids or a family and, you know, also felt that they were a burden or that they were causing other people pain or they were a distraction at home or their lives were in chaos and or they were afraid. I'm going to breathe here because Erin's like you in your run-on sentences when she tries to edit me. 

00:49:23 Erin: I just have to separate them. 

00:49:24 Cinnamon: But the thing that I really love about your story, and I'll kind of preface this with, I'm not a sadist, but I mean, you had all of the consequences that people are terrified of getting, right? Like you had the IA investigation. You had a simple assault charge. You did get suspended. You did get your service weapon taken away. You were taken off the street. And even with all of those really difficult things happening, you still made a good choice. You lived through it. And the quality of your life is better today than it was before all those things happened. And I think that's so huge.

00:50:12 Erin: It is so huge. And something that I really do think, I'm glad that you emphasize that Cinnamon, because it is the common conversation, is I wouldn't dare tell anybody anything because I don't want these consequences. And not only did you have the courage to say my life is more important than the consequences at this point, but you lived through it. And here you are today, you know, benefiting others. So they didn't fire you. You know, everything, all the consequences were temporary and led you to a place where you are now helping others. So it's incredible. Yeah. That's all I can say is the word incredible.

00:50:54 Cinnamon: Well, I think it's important to, because I can hear the yeah, buts, right? Like I'm programmed to pick up the yeah, buts, that might be coming and like, yeah, but she, you know, got her charges dropped or she got to keep her job or whatever those yeah, buts, are. But one thing that we forget is that we're telling this story as it's your history. But while you were going through it, you didn't know what the outcomes were going to be. You didn't know whether or not you're going to keep your job or how that investigation was going to end or if the charges were going to get dropped. So not knowing what the end was going to look like. 00:51:36 Cinnamon: What was it that kept pushing you forward to go through this? Because at any point in time, you could have picked that gun up again and said, this is too humiliating. You know, what was the thing that kept you grounded through that process of navigating those consequences before you knew how it was all going to end?

00:51:58 Monica: I've never been a quitter. Although, you know, I wanted to, you know, when I had the gun to my head. But, you know, I've never let anyone tell me that I couldn't do something. And, you know, there were people that thought I shouldn't have gotten my job back. And, you know, that's fine. That's their issue, not mine. And I just, I wasn't going to give up. I wasn't going to give up. And if God didn't want me to have the job, then I would have been fine with that. But I was going to try my best to get to the point where I can retire. And I did, I just did not want to give up all that hard work that I did. I think about, you know, I was a kid, but I was a mom and I worked my ass off to get through college and working full time at the same time and getting my daughter, you know, to follow, not in my footsteps, but I wanted to see. 

00:53:00 Monica: One of the things that really screwed me up and was really hard for me to ask for help is that I've always been told that I was such a strong person. You know, you've had a kid so young, you're so strong, you're doing this. So that's what I wanted for her. I wanted her to see my strength. That's what I concentrated on is my strength that I always had, but I just never Never felt I had it. It was just a natural thing for me. I don't know. It's a weird concept for me to explain. And I just needed to prove to myself that I was fighting for the right thing. And I wanted my pension. And I was going to fight hard to keep it because I worked hard for that. And I wasn't going to let anyone take it from me.

0053:51 Erin: Yeah, you didn't go through all that for nothing.

00:53:54 Cinnamon: Right? Yeah. I have a couple of questions. Well, maybe one question and a comment. When you were talking about like everyone had referred to you and always labeled you as strong and you just didn't see yourself that way. I think that shows up a lot in this work in the sense where you hear a lot, I couldn't do what you do. And there are some people who are just kind of like, built for certain things and maybe other people can see it. But to you, it doesn't feel like you're built. I know a lot of people say to me, oh, I could never do your job. I could never listen.

00:54:31 Cinnamon: And I'm like, that's because it would be hard for you. It's not hard for me to do my job. It may not be… That doesn't mean it doesn't have difficulty, but it's like that natural fit. And so in that same light, being strong, you don't always see how what you're doing takes what it takes because it just takes what you have and you kind of almost take that for granted. The one question I did have, I wanted to ask this specifically because I think this is important. You said, I'm not a quitter and I've never wanted to quit. But then you gave this little statement in there. I wanted to quit when I had the gun in my hand. And so I want to ask you, is that actually true? Like, did you want to die or did you just not want to live the way you were living?

00:55:27 Monica: I mean, honestly, probably I did want to live the way I was living, but the only option that I thought I had, at that time, was to die. Because I have everything to live for, but at that moment in time, with just the alcohol taking over my life. It just… I didn't want to live like that anymore. I couldn't.

00:55:52 Cinnamon: If folks like me and Erin are, you know, meeting with our first responders and we're asking questions like, do you feel like you want to hurt yourself, right? Like, that's typically what we're trained to ask. But I feel like that is not an ideal question. Because it goes back to that want. Like, do you want to hurt yourself? I don't know a lot of people that want to hurt themselves. It's painful. But what may be a more accurate question is, are you having difficulty living the way that you're living? And I wonder if that would have been a question posed to you, would you have seen it as different than if somebody would have asked you, do you want to hurt yourself?

00:56:37 Monica: I think, I think I would have taken that question a little better than if you want to hurt yourself. ‘Cause it just, it gives you a little more. to elaborate maybe what you're feeling instead of just, do you want to hurt yourself? I think that would have been, if someone would have asked me that, I may have opened up, maybe.

00:56:59 Cinnamon: That's good to know. And I do think that that is important because most of the stories that we do hear, you know, we're so used to being asked that question, do you want to hurt yourself? And maybe people have been programmed to not quote, answer honestly, because they don't want the consequences that come with that. But I don't always think that they're answering the question honestly as much as they're answering the question that they think is being asked, and that is, are you suicidal? So for the clinicians out there and even our first responders, if we're asking, do you want to hurt yourself? We may want to rethink that question and ask, are you having a difficult time living the way that you're living? And then if you are the first responder and you are being asked that question by a clinician, be brave and say, it's not that I want to hurt myself. but I don't think I can keep living this way.

00:57:59 Monica: Definitely think that's a better way to ask.

00:58:03 Erin: Duly noted.

00:58:04 Cinnamon: Can I ask a clarifying question about kind of how this all got triggered? Because I heard you say working with the doctor, you were able to get the post-traumatic stress under control. Were you able to not only alleviate some of those symptoms, but were you able to get any resolution for yourself, seeing how it seems to be, it was a repressed memory?

00:58:27 Monica: I still don't remember a lot and I still, it's still repressed, but I'm okay with that because I was able to deal with the nightmares and just all the horrible things that were happening at night in my sleep. I was able to deal with that. And that's all that mattered to me. You know, what happened happens. There's nothing I can do about it. And I'm okay. I'm okay with everything right now. Like I said, I haven't had any flashbacks. And if I ever do, I think I'll be okay with dealing with it, because I have so many other things in my toolbox that will help me.

00:59:10 Erin: Well, yeah. And you also know how to ask for help now. 

00:59:14 Monica: Yeah. Yes. Yes, I do. 

00:59:17 Erin: And you have a lot of people that are in your corner that I imagine you feel like you could go to that you might have maybe you didn't have before.

00:59:26 Monica didn't think I had people that loved me before. I didn't think that I had anyone that cared about me. After my incident, I realized how many people did care about me and would be there for me, if I actually, you know, was able to ask for help that they would have been there for me. But, you know, at that moment, I just didn't think that. I didn't love myself, so I didn't think that other people would be able to love me and care for me. So definitely, have a bunch of people now that I can reach out to my network from rehab, from all the first responder groups that I belong to, my regular 12-step people. I know that I can pick up the phone and anyone that I call would be there for me.

01:00:19 Cinnamon: Monica, do you feel like a big part of your story was how you were using alcohol to cope after this memory was triggered? Do you feel like your drinking was alcoholic before the flashback started? Or I think it's just kind of interesting in your story, like the symptoms stopped, but the drinking kept going. So do you feel like you drink kind of like a normie before and this teed it off? Or do you, like, how do you feel about how the drinking kind of existed before the trigger and for the trigger?

01:00:55 Monica: I was never a normie. Yes, I was never a, you know, a normie where I can just have one drink. I never understood how people can do that. You know there's… my family have an addictive personality and I always knew that if I've never tried drugs before because I was scared to death that I would get hooked. So I thought that drinking was a better option. Wasn't, but, you know, in my brain, that's what I thought. 

01:01:27 Monica: But no, I have an addictive personality and I never just drank to feel okay. You know, it always went overboard. As far as I can remember, it's always been that way. Just towards the end, it was just blackouts and just needing more and more. But I was never a normal drinker. No. If someone left a glass half of wine, half-full, I'm like, I will take it and finish it. How can you leave that? That's definitely the mind of an alcoholic. How can you leave that?

01:02:03 Cinnamon: Totally can relate. Who has the nerve to leave stuff on the table and pay the bill and walk out? It's a waste. Who does that?

01:02:11 Erin: Absolutely. Monica, is there anything that you feel is important to say for our listeners to hear based on your story, based on how far you've come, what your current life looks like? I guess it's one of those things like, if you look back, is there any of those things that you would want to say that you're like, darn it, I wish I would have said? That you can think of?

01:02:34 Monica: I guess the main thing is that I know it's cliche. Everyone says, you know, you're not alone, but you really are not alone. There's so many people out there that care about you. And if you're going through something and it doesn't even have to be work-related, it can be, you know, something going on at home or, you know, with your spouse or the kids, you know, there's always someone out there that will listen to you and help you go get through whatever it is that you're going through. I said it is some kind of addiction. 

01:03:09 Monica: You can do it and you can definitely work through it if you really want it. And I'm a prime example of that. I was in such a black hole that I couldn't get myself out of it. And until I asked for that help and then it was so much help and that I never knew that there was so much help out there. Because a lot of us don't know, we don't really know where to reach out to. Because we're the helpers and we're not supposed to, you know, need help. But we do. We are human beings just like everyone else that we help. And yeah, just, I guess just ask for help. If you need it, there's always someone there that can relate to you and to what you're going through and then could help you. Even if it's someone that I don't know, when I hear someone go through terrible things and then they, you know, decide to take their life.

01:04:07 Monica: It just hurts me so bad, because I know where they were and it comes back to me, that feeling of where I was. And I know the pain that they're going through and you don't have to deal with that pain by yourself. There's always someone there that can help you. And then for the people out there that say, oh, you know, call me anytime I can help you. Make sure that you really mean it, because if someone says to you that they want help, you need to help them then, right there and then, not the next day or the day after, because that might be too late. I think a lot of people may. Say, oh no, yeah, yeah, call me, I'll help you. But they're saying it just to say it. But if you really mean it, you have to really follow through because it can be life or death for that person that is truly asking for that help and is, you know, reaching out to you and hoping that you will help them. And it's just sad that, you know, some people don't have that ability to get the help right away.

01:05:12 Erin: Fantastic. Thank you so much. Monica, I appreciate you, you know, going to any lengths to get here, to be able to share your story with our listeners, to continue on this journey. in bravery and sharing your message. I know that this task to be a world changer is not for the weak. So Lord knows you are not a quitter. This is one of those things every time I talk to a new first responder or somebody that's kind of in this momentum of this movement, as Cinnamon and I call it, that it takes a village. We all just got to keep banding together and keep talking about this. And, you know, I think that's going to be collectively what makes the difference. And it's working. It's already happening.

01:05:58 Monica: Yeah, the more people share their stories, I think that the easier it will be for someone to realize that they need help and that they could also ask for that help. So I hope you had, you guys have a bunch of episodes with a whole bunch of more people, you know, telling and sharing their stories of hope, definitely need it.

01:06:19 Cinnamon: Well, and that's what our goal is, right? To be able to amplify the message that you've worked so hard to be able to share in the ways that you have. We wanted to intentionally create a platform where we could take those of you that are doing this work because you've been through it. And amplify that out so far more people can hear it than the people at the facility that you go speak at or the conference that you speak at. But that really is on a national or international stage because I don't want there to be anyone that misses the message that needs it.

01:07:01 Monica: Yeah, absolutely.

01:07:08 VO: Thank you for joining us for today's episode of After the Tones Drop. Today's show has been brought to you by Whole House Counseling. As a note, After the Tones Drop is for informational purposes only and does not constitute for medical or psychological advice. It is not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please contact a local mental health professional in your area if you are in need of any assistance. You can also visit afterthetonesdrop.com and click on our Resources tab for an abundance of helpful information. And we would like to give a very special thank you and shout out to Vens Adams, Yeti, and Sonda for our show's music.