Wired Differently: The Hidden Depths of the ADHD Mind

EP53: Wired Differently

Erin: Well, Cinnamon, today is our day to shine and talk about us. Just kidding. Um, actually, not just kidding. In a lot of ways, it really is because the topic today is something that you and I can really relate to. Wouldn't you say?

Cinnamon: I feel like this is coming up a lot that we talk about, struggling with boundaries. We understand. We talk about childhood trauma. We understand. We talk about addiction. We understand. And now let's throw ADHD on the pile and say, indeed, we

Erin: And those that we are married to may not. They just see how annoying we are, and many things that we do. It's like, I can't help that my mama made me like this. 

Cinnamon: God bless them. 

Erin: I know. 

Cinnamon: they really should get more credit, and get less criticism for not always understanding. But for a lot of our listeners, we know that there is a high number of individuals with ADHD that overlap [00:01:00] and are first responders. And it can get even trickier. When you're constantly experiencing traumatic exposure whether it's cumulative or acute, some of the symptoms of PTS are going to look a lot like the symptoms of ADHD.

So we wanted to spend this time, both this episode and the next one, talking about ADHD. Talking about all the ways that it shows up in our lives for those of us who experience it and how it can cross over into the PTS world and why it makes a difference to know whether those symptoms that you're having are originating out of post traumatic stress. Or ADHD,

Erin: And the other thing is to preface that you're very passionate about the fact that attention deficit hyperactive disorder is a super shitty name for this particular. [00:02:00] Yeah.

Cinnamon: super shitty name.

Erin: And I do want to touch on too. If you. Go back in time, I don't know, maybe in September, we did release an episode, episode 23 called Thriving in the Wild with the hunting public's very own Zach Farrenball.

And his whole episode was about his experiences with ADHD and how, it affected his home and work life and how he did eventually end up finding his superpowers within that diagnosis. So that's super cool. If you want to go back and. be tantalized by Zach 

Cinnamon: listen to my baby boy.

Cinnamon: That's a grown ass man. So the interesting thing about that and why I loved Zach's episode other than it was, fun to spend time with him and do that, was part of why he struggled so much at the beginning was not only did he not know he had ADHD, but he didn't even know that some of the problems that he was having and were [00:03:00] manifestations of ADHD, which is why we go back to my opinion that ADHD or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is a shitty, shitty name for it.

And I tell my clients all the time, That ADHD is clearly a name that was given to the disorder by people who do not have it, but are annoyed by us because it's focusing on the two components that tend to impact others that we interact with the most. So if I have an attention deficit, and I am not paying attention or I can't.

Continuously maintain my attention on you. Then people are perceiving it as an intention deficit. And it's like, Hello? Hello? Squirrel? Are you listening? And then the other part is the hyperactivity. And I know for me as a kid, I really struggled with social relationships [00:04:00] and I never could figure out why, and I would try to shift who I was or how I presented so I would be accepted, not recognizing that it was simply my hyperactivity and there was no way I was going to get away from that characteristic.

so when we talk about attention deficit hyperactivity, my first rule of thumb is I do not have. An attention deficit, and I know for a fact, neither do you, Erin, 

Erin: No, I'm quite the opposite.

Cinnamon: So what is actually happening is not so much that we have a deficiency, it's that we have a regulation problem because I can start doing something and not look up for seven hours and not even realize that I have been hyper focused.

And I'm sure that there are a lot of our listeners who might be able to relate to that in terms watching [00:05:00] ESPN, playing video games, I love a good rabbit hole on the interwebs. You know, we know that we have the capacity to get hyper focused. So that kind of voids out the idea that we have an attention deficit. We have an attention dysregulation issue because let's be honest, I don't like boring... 

Erin: Don't like boring shit. Mm-Hmm. 

Cinnamon: I don't like boring shit, so if I have something to do that is more fun than what you're asking me to do, then I'm going to have a very difficult time transitioning. So an example of that is when I was little, it was a Saturday morning thing that we would all clean our house or we would clean my grandma's house, depending on what week it was.

And being the youngest sibling of three daughters, I frequently found ways to get myself free from having to do chores. if you pretend you don't know how to vacuum long enough, people are going to [00:06:00] quit bothering you to try to get you to vacuum. So my whole childhood, my mom would call me lazy.

And I'm like, I'm not lazy. I'm just not stupid. Like, how are you thinking that I'm going to want to dust, vacuum, and all of that? I feel bad for you all because you didn't come up with a good enough reason to get out of it. So it wasn't that I was lazy. Give me something fun to do. And I'm all about it.

Right? So the idea of both hyperactive and lazy was ironic. Because now let's get into that hyperactivity piece, Yeah, there is some hyperactivity that goes with it, but it doesn't mean that we're bouncing off the walls all the time. I think it's really important for those of us that have it.

Oftentimes we don't do a lot of research. We don't learn about our disorder. We find out we have it and then we take meds and that's about the end of it. So when we start having other problems, We don't always know that those issues or those problem [00:07:00] behaviors are also manifestations of ADHD. So if I were to have the power and the honor to rename or relabel Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, to me.

It's a no brainer. It would be executive dysfunction disorder. Because that is actually what is happening. The executive functions that are ruled, in our prefrontal cortex that basically guide our adulting. They don't work the way that other people's work That I think would lead to way less shame Way less guilt tripping way less struggle with social interactions if we weren't just told Here are the two most annoying things about you, but rather this is why you struggle to do the things that seem to be easy and normal for other people. For those of you that are listening and have been told one too many times, why don't you just try a planner? [00:08:00] Yeah, because those... 

Erin: I have 12

Cinnamon: uh, yeah, becauseI have and they don't work. And I feel like there's so many times that people are like, well, why don't you just? And because ADHD is a neurobiological disorder and it falls more so into the category with like autism, when we experience. Someone with autism, we in a general way know that we have to make adaptations because there are just some things that it doesn't matter how many times you explain it.

They're just not going to do. so If people thought more about ADHD in that same disorder family as autism, all it is is that our brains simply work differently than the standard operating procedure. it's not that we're wrong, it's just that we're different. it's not something that we can just stop doing or [00:09:00] start doing. I would love to be on time.

Erin: I will say that we're doing better, but we are definitely by the skin of our teeth.I wanted to share something that was comical that I experienced earlier this morning and how my brain works and give an example of something that our listener may relate to if they struggle with this.

Go upstairs to get my cup of coffee. I open the fridge. I grab the creamer. I go to put it in my coffee I go to put the half and half back and realize that the shelf is disgusting. There's like milk I don't know what was all over the shelf so then what next thing I know I'm pulling everything off of the shelf and I am now cleaning the shelf and it's You know, then I'm like, if I don't do this now, then this is going to drive me nuts.

I'm going to think about it all afternoon. So I'm just going to go ahead and do this now. This was not what I was intending on doing. Then I put everything back in the shelf and then I'm like, well, if I'm going to do that shelf. I'm like, I should just wipe off the one below it because...

[00:10:00] Cinnamon: And it is that kind of thing that people will be like, why can you not focus? Or why can I not count on you? Or you said that, can't you stay on task? 

Erin: right.

And one for me, it's like, if I don't do this right now, another opportunity will come with something else for me to do and it will not happen. And two. I can't help it. It will drive me nuts, like, once I see it and it's in front of my face, I will be thinking about a milk covered fridge shelf for the next hour until I just go do it.

it's annoying, I get it, and it's even more that's what I'm saying,

Cinnamon: It's 

annoying to 

Erin: to me, like, I had much better shit to do than clean milk off of a fridge shelf, but, I digress, here we are, and it is what it is.

Cinnamon: what I heard you describe in a little bit of that was the hyper focus that if you don't do it, you're not going to be able to let it go. the other thing that you said. About if I don't do it [00:11:00] now, I am one of those people that I need everything out on the counter because if I can't see it, it doesn't exist.

If I don't do it right now, I will forget it needs done. If I don't write it down somewhere, and maybe if I don't write it down in 54 places, it will not pop into my brain for another three months. So part of,that is, it is really difficult to have a shitty memory. It is one of the hardest struggles as an adult that I have is that my brain is like Swiss cheese and nothing sticks if I don't put my vitamins out on the counter, I don't take them.

as much as we may annoy other people, I think it's really important for the people who interact with us to understand. Nobody suffers worse than we do because we're with us 24 7 and we can't fix it. [00:12:00] And we know that we're dropping balls and we want to be better and we're just not. Now, do I still get a lot of shit done?

Yes, but sometimes I work on five projects simultaneously and it takes way longer to get them done because I will never start a project and finish it. I just won't. That gets boring, and I need to go find something else to entertain me, even if it's another project.

Erin: Well, I think that I have the opposite thing, which is, I will finish a project that I start, but it might not be the appropriate project for the time frame that I have allotted, right? One thing I will say is that it's gotten to the point in my family Especially with my brother and my dad, where we joke about like, we call it OCD, but I'm very clear that it's a symptom of the ADHD Where we are going to crush any project that we have our mindset on.

It's going to be done with master [00:13:00] precision and we're going to have it all like freaking organized and drawn out and ready to go and it's going to be awesome. But the problem is that we agonize over it and that's the tricky part and that's what makes it so hard as we agonize over it. And I know that my husband specifically, it drives him nuts almost to the point where I have felt judged by.

Oh, well I know this is just how you are, and so if you have your eyes set on some kind of endgame that I'm gonna lose you for three days. And for me that feels super hurtful, I'm like, thanks. 

Cinnamon: Okay, you just opened up the gate and there's a kind of an order that I talk about these in, but we can go out of order simply because you just brought it up. When we talk about executive dysfunction and the ways that our brain works differently, so things don't operate similarly neurotypical. For example, one of the executive functions is cognitive flexibility. 

Erin: Hm? [00:14:00] 

Cinnamon: What is cognitive flexibility, you may

ask? It's the ability to transition between activities, and it's the ability to shift when something doesn't go according to plan. you know who I thought of when I was like getting ready for this episode, thinking about examples of cognitive flexibility? Do

Erin: Oh.

Cinnamon: you remember when we were at Great Wolf Lodge and she had this expectation of how we were going on a wizardry Magical wolfy trek, whatever.  What is that thing called? 

Erin: It's called Magic Quest. 

Cinnamon: Magic quest and she had a booklet and there in the booklet were the directions of how it was supposed to go and when we got to that one spot, that thing was not there and we damn near had a complete meltdown and it's that idea of being inflexible to cognitive [00:15:00] changes.

When things don't go according to plan, it feels more like turning the Titanic around and it's going to be a struggle. Now, whether or not Lila has ADHD, that's not what I'm talking about. I just am giving an example that makes sense. To what cognitive flexibility is, and I know for me when I was younger, if I asked you to do something or made plans and you said no, or canceled on me, I would take it so personally.

And now I'm like, okay, no worries, because I've worked on that particular executive function and. It's not as much of a problem because ultimately, yeah, I might be bitchy with you, but I'm emotionally suffering when I'm 

Erin: Mm hmm. That's right. Yeah. And I would definitely say that I don't think that my daughter has ADHD, but I am watching my son. I am watching my son. I think for my daughter, it's more about, being a child and learning how to shift gears and that not everything goes according to plan and that's just the way the cookie [00:16:00] crumbles.

yeah. you talked about this executive functioning, you started leaning into that in terms of the flexibility or inflexibility.what are some other things that are affected and what does that look like?

Cinnamon: when we're talking about executive functions, there are five core skills as I read them, you're probably going to think of ways that this manifests for you. I also side note when you are talking about the shelf in the refrigerator, All that popped into my head was if you give a mouse a cookie,

Erin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Cinnamon: the book, this is what happens.

So again, sidebar squirrel. so the first of the executive functions is focus and attention. right out of the gate, we're talking about the difficulty with our ability to stay focused on something or to unfocus ourselves for other prioritized items. So it's the dysfunction of the [00:17:00] regulation part of it, right?

 So it can be extreme on either end, but it's the inability to regulate it. And it's not just I can make a decision or somebody can give me a directive and I do it. My brain has different plans. So again, that can look like we don't finish a project to the end, which is why my office is still not cleaned out and organized and my dining room is still under remodeling.

But it's also the difficulty remembering what we were about to do. How many of us have went into a room and stood there and thought, why did I come in here? And Erin, what do you do when that happens? What is a common behavior that you have figured 

Erin: To help me remember.when that happens to me, most of the time I actually just stand there and talk to myself.I'm like, okay, so I came in here, I usually like backtrack, I try to rewind the tape and see where I was when I started this thought [00:18:00] process. And then, so I reverse engineer it. And talk to myself.

Cinnamon: Exactly. I walk back to the room that I was in, and then it helps me remember. And I'm like, Oh yeah, that. And then I can go finish it. So how for normies or neurotypical people out there, can you imagine how difficult it would be? And how much time consuming it is to have to constantly backtrack because your brain cannot retain that information.

It is really fucking

Erin: you make the,so this is a great example of, okay, I need to go into such and such room to grab this. In that exact millisecond of that thought, seven more thoughts will pop in. it's already interrupted.

So, then there's 20 other things that are coming in, like do this, this, this, this, this.

So by the time I get to the room to get the thing that I went to go get, I'm like frickin in Europe. it's [00:19:00] over. 

Cinnamon: I want to talk specifically about what you just described, but in a different form in a minute. And,

Erin: Are you gonna remember?

Cinnamon: It's called either. I was just like, I'm going to throw this out there. So you, I am not the only one with it in my brain. Some people call it dolphining. I like to call it mulling. but we're going to come back to that.

So the second, executive function that we usually are dysfunctional with is planning and organizing.So being able to arrive on time with what we actually need in that moment, not, the wrong paperwork or missing paperwork. the ability to keep home office organized. Some of us like to close doors so people can't see the hellacious mess that we have.

And it's not that I'm not, I don't stress about it because I know I'm going to get to it. That does not mean that my extremely organized husband. Doesn't [00:20:00] rub his face a lot and sigh, but this many years and he has gotten a little bit better about it. but The idea that we can keep an environment clutter free, part of what you may hear is, I know where everything is, and if I see it, it helps me remember, because like I said before, if it's out of my line of sight, it has never existed before in all of mankind.

it's just gone.

The third, that we already talked about is that cognitive flexibility, our ability to transition between things that may vary in its excitement or stimulation, or a desirable task, as well as our ability to shift when plans change. Then 

Erin: emotional 

regulation.

What is that? I don't know how to do that.

Cinnamon: So again, emotional dysregulation. This is an executive dysfunctional disorder [00:21:00] because this is one of those things that I think. happens that when neurotypical folks look at us, it makes them perceive us 

Erin: hmm. And then we're also emotionally, we also have anxious attachment style, No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. 

Cinnamon: yeah, because as we're going to, we're going to talk about RSD here in a minute, and that would give us more, of an anxious and secure attachment style as well. So with the emotional regulation, The goal is to be able to put your emotions in context and keep it reasonable, regulated, being able to.

Be the person in control of your emotions and your emotions not inciting a behavior that you don't feel like you were in charge of or that you made a decision to behave that way. It keeps us from, having outbursts. It also can keep us from interrupting. Like you and I are both very well versed in our compulsion to interrupt.[00:22:00] 

And it's Ooh, if I don't say this right now, I will forget it. And so it is that compelling need because we have that experience of knowing that if we don't say it right now, we're going to forget it. But then it's rude to constantly interrupt. And when I try to not interrupt. if I'm having a conversation with my husband or with you and I'm like, no, go ahead.

And they're like, okay, so what were you going to say? No 

idea. No idea. It may come back in five minutes or two years. We'll see. and it also helps us from refraining from hurting other people's feelings because we're actually being thoughtful about what we're saying before we say it. when somebody says, Oh, I spoke without thinking,

Erin: Isn't that 

interesting? You would think it 

would be the opposite.

Cinnamon: You would think that we would just blurt out whatever because of that inability to retain and hold on to something that we wanted to say. yeah. and it's, Ironically, I think that's part of a lot of [00:23:00] this disorder is that there's a lot of irony in the things that we can and can't do depending on, what that particular situation is. But how many times have you said something and after it's been laid out of your mouth, you thought, That was such an inappropriate thing to say.

you don't think about that context of,if you make a comment that's appropriate, but you forget your audience and you say 

something really offensive. And the last one, and I think this and emotion regulation are really deeply tied together, is impulse control. Again, key skill in effective adulting that we do not 

organically possess. 

Erin: Mm 

hmm. So that is where respecting boundaries and even as far as where addiction patterns may come into play. Wouldn't you say?

Cinnamon: Absolutely. Again, it would be, It's very interesting [00:24:00] to see some data on a correlation between those diagnosed with ADHD or have, similar symptomatology and those who struggle with, addiction to substances. Because what do substances do? They numb us.

Erin: That's right.

Cinnamon: And it is very appealing sometimes to not have all of this intensity of, why can't I do things like other adults do? And it's that constant thread of, I'm not good enough. I should be better. All of that. So man, after beating yourself up and getting beat up for decades, why wouldn't you find something that kind of numbed you out?

That's what I did. I mean, I was lazy, I didn't have a lot of friends because I was so hyperactive, it was painful, it was, you know, my sisters didn't want me around because I was annoying, and it just feels so hurtful to not be able to understand why nobody wants you around. [00:25:00] And that pain, eventually, when you figure out how to numb it, you're going to have a real difficult time stopping because it's the only break that you've gotten from everybody just saying, do better.

And you're like, if I could, I would, I, I'm not doing this 

on purpose. 

Erin: Yep.

and so we've touched on a handful of these just in our examples in our stories, but if we can name some things that other folks might say are annoying with individuals that do have ADHD, what 

Cinnamon: Yeah, 

Erin: look like that are common issues?

Cinnamon: there are two that I think, well three, that I think are really important. So I want to start with those three. The first one is what we call time blindness. So time blindness and it is the label that we put on the manifestation of issues with time management. So we may, habitually underestimate the time required to complete a [00:26:00] task.

We may then think that we can do one or two more things before we leave the house. We have that time and then we end up being late wherever we're going. We may have a difficult time struggling to prioritize our tasks effectively. I know that a lot of times time can pass by without me even knowing it and so I may think I have enough time to do something and I don't like even today.

I said, give me 10 minutes. I was done 20 minutes later, like me not being able to accurately calculate how long something's going to take. that is a huge one that I think other people. Would find annoying if they were interacting like you don't I'm sure you do find it annoying, but you are way more Sensitive to it and tolerant of it because you do it too.

 The second one that I want to mention is Rejection sensitivity [00:27:00] dysphoria, so rejection sensitivity dysphoria and That is when you experience severe Emotional pain because you failed, disappointed others, or you perceive that you've been rejected. There is also that hypersensitivity because if I say, Hey, Erin, would you like to go get a mocktail after work today?

And you said, Oh no, I can't. I already have plans. I am not going to be like, okay, I'm going to be like, did she really have plans? She probably just doesn't want to hang out with me. Well. nobody really wants to hang out with me, and now my feelings are hurt, and now I don't want to talk to Erin again because now I think she doesn't like me, and I may, you know, call a friend or a therapist and cry about it because my feelings are hurt, and somebody has to interject and say, Hey.

Is it possible that she would have loved to have [00:28:00] gone to dinner with you, but she already had a commitment and she is the kind of person that does not throw her children under the bus and will absolutely go pick them up after school in lieu of maybe a more stimulating event of having 

dinner with you.

Erin: Yeah, 

Cinnamon: No,

she hates me. 

Erin: I know it. I'm,

Cinnamon: yeah, I'm like, nice try, but I'm not falling for that. you're not gonna make me think that 

you like me,

Erin: right?

Cinnamon: but you really hate me. So, when you are interacting with people that are hypersensitive and have that, sensitivity to rejection, it can feel like you're constantly consoling or comforting them or reinforcing, like, no, that's not what that person was doing, or no, that's not what I intended. the third most important thing from, I think, and again, Being somebody with ADHD, this was really important for me to learn that this was even a thing [00:29:00] because I don't know how many times I've gotten my hearing checked and I have said that I have a profound hearing loss, that I have to read lips, all of these things.

 But really what I have is auditory processing disorder. Oftentimes, it will be people who think that they need to go get the hearing checked and they're fine. What it actually is, is your brain is not processing sounds and language the way it's supposed to. it can look like I'm not paying attention. I may have to go, Huh?

Huh? What? Can you repeat yourself? Can you look at me? When you're talking, can you say that louder? Can you quit mumbling? Right. And it doesn't matter. my husband is a mumbler, but I'm the one who gets the, because I've asked him to repeat it four times. Now I could get mad and be like, can you quit fucking mumbling?

Because it would help me stop having to ask you [00:30:00] to repeat yourself. But because it's always been my problem. I am always the one that feels like I need to compensate. So. When we get into noisy environments and we get overstimulated and we have to 

go I personally have to

have the 

subtitles 

on.

The TV.

Erin: I do too. I was just gonna say that my 

family makes fun of me. I'm like, no, I have to. Yeah. 

Cinnamon: And I have people that I watch movies with say, it's so distracting. How do you watch the movie if you're reading? And I'm like, because I can't hear it. And it doesn't matter how high you turn the volume up. 

I'm not going to be able 

to 

hear it. And it's a comprehension.

Erin: it just sounds like a bunch of noise. It's just like yeah, yeah. It's almost like, like your brain is kind of like in slow mo, but everything else is moving in fast forward when it comes to trying to process that. 

Cinnamon: Yes. That's how it feels for me. 

Well, and a lot of times I have to repeat what you said. And when I'm repeating it, that is the time when I'm like [00:31:00] downloading and comprehending it. I cannot hear you and comprehend what you're saying simultaneously. It's a two part process for me.

Erin: Which makes you a really good therapist because you're like, 

so 

what I've, what I'm hearing you say is.

Cinnamon: what I think I've heard, 

Erin: I 

Cinnamon: right? Reflective listening.

and the interesting thing is it doesn't happen within therapy. It happens outside of therapy, but it's, I'd shift into a different, mode and I don't have that same problem, but I definitely say, okay, hang on. Let me just tell you what I think.

I just heard you say to make sure that I am understanding accurately. 

I'm just going to throw out a couple more but the rest of the habits or manifestations of the disorder that people find annoying are our lack of organization.

we're not very tidy 

Erin: we want to be organized. 

Cinnamon: and then we're hyper organized, 

Erin: Right.

Cinnamon: huh. And then get out of our way because we will color 

code [00:32:00] our post its.

Erin: right? Mm-Hmm

Cinnamon: We're impatient. We do not have a lot of patience. We're easily frustrated. Especially, hello dusting and vacuuming child here, when they are perceived as boring and repetitive. However, today you will find me vacuuming my house three to four times a day. 

So sometimes people

can change. 

Erin: now it's just obsessive 

Cinnamon: Again, that um, Right?

It's just another manifestation. it is because we have those dark hardwood floors, and you can see every speck of anything on it, and I cannot live like that, so I am constantly vacuuming. Again, we have that emotional sensitivity, and that can go far beyond the confines of rejection sensitivity disorder.

We also are procrastinators. We are the people that think we do our best work when we are running out of time. And what it is, is [00:33:00] We're on the hot seat and we really can't afford to get those things done. And for me, like if I'm working on a training, I can start two months ahead, but I'm going to do most of the work in the last week because I will do it over and over and over and over again.

I would hate to be an artist where I painted and I would have to decide when the painting was finished because I would just keep painting, flapping more shit on there. We. are terrible with transitions, you know, transitioning between one activity, or another. Sometimes it makes us disruptive. It makes us inefficient.

You may see that with asking a kid, Hey, get off your video games and come unload the

dishwasher. You're going to yell no, definitely not on the first time, because why would I stop this fun Thing to do that boring thing and that is Not just a teenager being a teenager. [00:34:00] It's an extra right? It's like teenager on crack because it makes it's so much harder than just 

what an average teenager would do And we have a low tolerance for boredom, which is oftentimes why we become entertaining

Erin: If you're not going to entertain me, I will entertain myself. I cannot count on

you. 

Cinnamon: it 

Erin: Which is, God, we are funny. Me

and you. no wonder we're so 

entertaining to each 

Cinnamon: I am funny. You are funny. We are funny together. Absolutely. doesn't make sense that, we've got to bring the humor to the party, so we will stay at the party. So these are all of, I won't even say that. I won't say they're all the similarities, but they're definitely a lot.

And, if you are someone who has ADHD, I do hope this helps you understand yourself. If you are someone who loves someone with ADHD, I hope that even if you need to listen to this 14 times, you get some compassion. and, [00:35:00] understand that we're not just trying to piss you off or be defiant. Okay. And Erin, do I have a time to mention some of the books

that 

I would recommend people or I do recommend? 

Erin: Yeah, go ahead and talk about the books and don't forget about moling or 

Cinnamon: Oh! See? See? Okay, this is a fun one. I'm going to start with Molang because the books are sitting right here. And, I won't forget the books, but I might forget mulling. So it can also be called dolphining. And so when you think about a mole or a dolphin, they'll like pop their head up above the surface, but we also know they go down and they burrow.

Well, dolphins are swimming, but moles are burrowing. And then they might pop up another hole, 15 feet away. so the reason we call it that is because we might be having a conversation and I may go silent. And then a couple seconds later, I might say something completely unrelated and you look at me like I'm crazy and think, how did you get there?

And I'm like, do you really want to know? [00:36:00] Cause I can take you back, but then you're going to see how my brain works and you might be scared. So if you and I are talking about the fact that we want to go visit, Wyoming. Give me 15 seconds and I will start talking to you about Little House on the Prairie.

 And you will say, how does going to a conference or traveling to meet first responders in Wyoming make you think of Laura and Pa and Ma and Carrie and Mary and the whole gang, Mr. Edwards? It's because when I think of Wyoming, I think of that region of the United States. And when I think of that region of the United States, that also can include,Minnesota and Missouri and Oklahoma.

 And when I think of those states, I think about the fact that those were all places where Laura Ingalls Wilder lived, that came up in her storybooks. And then I'd start thinking about the fact that each of those locations has a Laura Ingalls Wilder museum that you can go visit. And so when we're talking about going to conferences and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, [00:37:00] after a few seconds being quiet, I say, can we go to Ingalls Wilder museum?

And you're like, what in the actual,

Erin: Yeah, what are you even talking about?

Cinnamon: what are you? Because we started about conferences in Wyoming, well, my head was above ground, and then I went moling, and then I popped my head back up again after being done thinking, and I am talking about visiting a Laura Ingalls Wilder Museum in Minnesota.

Erin: I laugh because I'm like, yeah, isn't that what everybody does? Apparently not.

Cinnamon: Apparently not. So even when we recognize that we have some, neuroatypical behaviors. We don't necessarily know what they are because we don't,

this is the only brain we've 

ever 

Erin: It's normal to 

us. Yeah. 

Cinnamon: Yeah, 

Erin: Yeah. 

Cinnamon: it may be atypical, 

but it is our normal. 

Erin: So what are these books then, Cyn, that we must know about? And 

Cinnamon: Thank you. I, would have forgotten. [00:38:00] 

Erin: see, I, I'm, thank God we have each other. One whole brain. 

Cinnamon: So the first book that I want to share and again We'll make sure that all of these are in the show notes or in the links on our resource pages But the first book I want to talk about is one that I have probably bought four times now because I keep giving it away And it is called life changing strategies to improve executive functioning brain hacksthe subtitle is Work Smarter, Stay Focused, and Achieve Your Goals.

And this is a book by Laura Honus Webb, Ph. D. And it really does help us understand what is happening in our brains as we operate within the context of having ADHD and ways that we can address it. make life a little easier for ourselves. I think this is one of those good books that can be, both for an individual with ADHD as well as like a parent who can be coaching their [00:39:00] kids to use some of these brain hacks, to make their lives a little bit easier.

The next one I wanted to mention is, book that I got because when Ed and I got together. There were so many challenges that he just did not understand and I didn't have the language to explain. And so I found this book and it has actually been really helpful and it's called ADHD and us, a couple's guide to loving and living with adult ADHD.

And it is by Anita Robertson, LCSW. And I would recommend this to any couple where one of them has ADHD. We also, I have a workbook, that. A companion to a, attention Deficit Disorder in Adult, the fourth edition. And this is Attention Deficit Disorder in Adult's Workbook. And it is by Lynn Weiss, PhD.

And she is actually a bestselling author of [00:40:00] on the job. And it literally helps us write down on paper and think through some of those behaviors and ways to solve them. and the last that I have, it actually is a therapist guide, but I don't care because I think that we're all adults and we can help ourselves navigate through some things and it's educational.

It's called Mastering Your Adult ADHD, a Cognitive Behavioral Treatment Program.and it is by Steven. A. Safran, Susan E. Sprich, Carol A. Perlman, and Michael W. Otto, and it is basically using cognitive behavioral therapy to walk ourselves through modifying some of those behaviors. So we will make sure we have those in the show notes.

And we'll get them up on the resource pages of Whole House and After the Tones Drop and if this has been educational or enlightening for you, please join us [00:41:00] for the episode where we start talking about. How ADHD and PTSD can collide and overlap and cause more challenges in our lives and in our relationships and can make it harder to properly treat and recover from, P.

T. S. as well as 

treat. 

Erin: ADHD 

Cinnamon: ADHD

Erin: It'll be a good one.

Cinnamon: or as we moving forward know it as

executive dysfunctioning disorder. Thank 

you 

Erin: Who do we have to write to change that? 

Cinnamon: Shit. 

Erin: TED Talk.

That's 

Cinnamon: All right 

Erin: say. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

Cinnamon: i'm gonna say it's probably the american psychological association But now ask me how

Erin: No, they won't care. 

Cinnamon: letter. They 

Erin: care. All right. So we'll see you next week