You're Fine, Huh? When our Brain and Body Aren't on the Same Page

EP32: You're Fine, Huh?

Erin: What have you been doing lately? I feel like I haven't seen your face in a long time.

Cinnamon: Shut up. That is, you're such a liar.

Erin:  I haven't seen your face on camera  in a long time.

Cinnamon: I haven't seen your face on camera. That is true. I've been home now less than 24 hours and I'm Getting ready to leave again for another four days, but we just you and I like I'm telling you, as if you weren't there, we weren't in Kentucky in the exotic state of Kentucky in the wonderful, beautiful city of Bowling Green, in what would be Western, Central, Central, Central, Western, the Western part of Central Kentucky because they were very clear with us, right?

That where we were in Bowling Green, that was not Western Kentucky. And I didn't even know that Kentucky touched six other states. 

Erin: The things you learn when you pull up a map, 

Cinnamon: I mean, next time we're printing a map. I 

Erin: probably need to go back to like eighth grade. 

Cinnamon: And you can know as much as anyone in your area of specialty, but it's those situations where they're like, Oh yeah, you didn't pay attention in class.

No. 

Erin: Right. Because that's, to me, that's like useless information. my brain needed to remove that too. I got through the test.  

Cinnamon: passed. I moved it out. To make more room. Yeah. Yeah. 

Erin: But why were we there? We were there for the post critical incident seminar. We weren't just hanging out in Bowling Green. We had intention behind it. 

Cinnamon: We weren't on the bourbon trail, folks. yeah, we got invited by the clinical director of, let's see if we can get this right, the Department of Criminal Justice Training, Angela invited us to come down and observe what magic they're making down there and God it was I mean it's really one of those things where unless you go, it's hard to find words in the English language to explain.

Erin: It's so good.

Cinnamon: So good. yeah. So if you're listening in Kentucky, oh my gosh, if you have been on the job as a first responder for more than two years, you need to check out PCIS. Or as I like to call it, kipsis, 

Erin: which we learned really quickly that, by getting strange looks from the folks that attend there. It is not called kipsis, but since that's how it's spelled in my mind, that's what I called it.  

Cinnamon: it happens with schism too. So I say schism and a lot of people are like, what is that? And I'm like, CISM. And they're like, Oh yeah. So I think it's just your local geographic vernacular.

But I will tell you. we've talked on here about there only being like 2, 000 vetted first responder clinicians around the country and Hand to God Kentucky has like half of them their clinical staff Which we learned very quickly are called MHPs mental health professionals is second to none and their peer team Honestly, is even better than that.

Erin: They're ballers. They're so badass.

Cinnamon: They are gangstas. Gang And then they have their mob boss, Angela. yeah, what they have created down there for their first responders is just... I mean it's magic. It's magic. And leaving felt like leaving summer camp. Like you're hugging everybody and you're like, oh my god I can't wait to see you again.

And, that specific group of individuals will never be together again in the room like that. You know, like you'll see people again, but that specific group of individuals with nobody else in it and everybody present, it won't happen again. but yeah, 

Erin: but before that, so here's the thing, Cinnamon's been traveling for a month straight. At least it feels like it to me, because before we left to go. down to Kentucky. She was on vacation with her husband and a magical universe called Lake Havasu, where it sounds to me that it is. one of the most serene, chill, energetically, connected places that you can go in the country.

I mean, I have no idea, but based on what Cinnamon has said, that's kind of how it has felt to her. And so what's fascinating about her experiencing that is what she had shared with me once she had returned So I won't tell her story, but what did you share with me, Cinnamon, about why it was extra special there and what you discovered?

Cinnamon: So Lake Havasu City, sits very close to the intersection of California, Nevada, and Arizona, and I would describe it as, a little bit of Sedona. with the energy vortexes mixed with a retirement community, where everyone is just super chill and friendly there now, granted, I'm sure that you could eventually, if you're there long enough, run into a disgruntled individual, but it's so everyone is so friendly.

 Cinnamon: we were looking at it as a place to, potentially move in the far off future, when we, want to retire and One of the things that attracted me to it, was the combination of the desert, the mountains, and the water, And because I kept hearing about these energy vortexes. But we did this...  

Erin: Wait, pause. What's an energy vortex? Oh, okay. You gotta think who we're talking to. Who we're talking to... 

Cinnamon: Right.I'm like, would it be easier if I just like Google it? no. So an energy vortex is just a name That's given to a geographical spot that's been identified as having, like good juju.

Good juju. Yeah. that's a good way to describe it. so There's incoming vortexes and outgoing vortexes and they prompt different things like around creativity and personal life and relationships and self-reflection and, business development, all of that.

And I told Erin when we got back, we did this phenomenal. Kayaking trip. It was 14 miles down the Colorado River in between Topoc Gorge and,Castle Rock Bay. And I came back and I was like, Erin, we got to figure out a way to take. Our friends, our clients, like whoever will go to this place to experience this because as I was on the river, for those 14 miles, which I think we actually physically got on the river at around 8 a.m. and got off around 2, I did not realize how anxious I had been, like how significant my anxiety had been we had talked about it, my anxiety has gotten a lot better, in the last few months, but it's like when you're at a two or a four and you get to a six, you don't know better to assume that you're just at a ten.

And so floating down that river, I, yeah. said later, I was like, that's what a 10 feels like. And I didn't realize. how my good was not great. 

Erin: So on a scale of 0 to 10, 10 being the best you could ever feel. Because the way you were just describing the anxiety. So are you saying that prior to you going there, you were probably like a baseline five, like right in the middle, not awful, but not great.

But when you got to Lake Havasu and experienced that serenity and that peace and the energy and everything that it was, it made you realize. Hey, this is what it feels like to be like at a 10, which is yes, the best you can possibly feel right?

Cinnamon:  Okay, and the interesting thing that came about it and again I attribute this to some of the energetic fields there was When I was so much more calm and peaceful, I was so much more reflective of who I am as a person and where I want to go, what I want to do with our business, my relationship with my friends, my relationship with my spouse.

And it was like having that sense of anxiousness removed, gave me more ability to think clearly. So like it, those two folds, like I had the space when I removed all that worry and I also was able to turn back on some of my cognitive ability to actually think and as we are going down the river, my husband, Ed, and I weren't always like side by side.

In fact, we were rarely side by side. so I just kept. Pulling out my phone and making voice memos because I was like having epiphany is left and right. And I actually developed a training on the river and I'm excited to deliver. So yeah, that is. Our shout out for Lake Havasu City, Arizona, and Kentucky, PCIS.

So I will also, say, if you do go on that kayak trip, make sure that you wear like sun bum, chapstick with the SPF in it, cause I burnt the shit out of my lip. and we're still waiting for complete healing, but it's better. 

Erin: Yeah, at least you don't look like you had like massive Botox in your lips anymore. You got that going for you. 

Cinnamon: I know it got so fat. It got so fat. People pay good money for that, right? And I just like I wanted to walk around and every time I interact with a person I'm like This is a sunburn like because you couldn't tell it was a sunburn It just looked like I had a very disproportionately large lower lip.

Erin: Right, and people aren't...
People aren't used to getting their lips sunburned either, but the point is, we say all that to say that the reason that we wanted to share those stories with all of you is because it's that noticing of how often we are operating in life and an elevated space of anxiety and think that it's normal and don't notice that, wow, we are super hypersensitive, hyper alert.

Cinnamon: Even defensive. Yes. God forbid, right before we went, my husband said damn near anything because, I was instantly like the filter because I was just in that mental space. The filter basically translated it into my ear as you are not good enough. And he literally could be asking where I put the scissors. it was a much needed vacation and a lot of learning happened for sure. 

Erin: It sounds like a lot of self awareness, which we often talk about self awareness and all the woo woo stuff we talk about with the meditation and the grounding exercises and the being intentional about your energy and your space.

But because Cinnamon's been traveling so much, we've been doing our best to continue to crank out. episodes for you all. And something that we've been wanting to share for a while now was an experience we had about a month and a half ago, which now, which we had said in the beginning, we can look at it and it gives us a chuckle, but when it happened, it was really inconvenient.

And we noticed internally how startle reflex was up and how, what be a seemingly insignificant event. affected how we operated and that particular day and several days to follow. so we wanted to share that little story with you. So that one, you can be like, wow, that sucks.

What a bunch of idiots. And also how fun, Oh, but also allow you to see that, man, I didn't realize how I operate in that space so often and just kind of create that, Hmm, is that me question for yourself? 

Cinnamon: and it makes me think. about our very first interview with Jason Callahan when he was talking about what he thought it meant.

When something, quote, bothered him and he thought it meant that you were, in complete breakdown and crying and, a mess and it was such a great example of how, you and I were, like, fine, we were laughing, we were good but, our bodies were not getting any better. Where the rest of us was, so to speakso I guess I can talk a little bit about what happened.

Is that what you'd like me to do? 

Erin: Yeah, well, and the thing is, I want to say real quick too, like, we were not as fine as we thought we were. I think that's the most important thing to hit on is that so often we hear I'm fine. Okay. what the hell is fine? And we talked about this last night, sin like fine is not an emotion.

It's allow me to pull out my feelings wheel. Can we be more specific? Because fine is, I don't know. We just decided it's some kind of emotion or way of being, but what the hell does that mean? It's more like, get off my back. 

Cinnamon: I'm fine. You know? Don't ask. I think, like, furniture and China.

And, or, and rugs. They're fine. that's... Fine China. and I think what makes it so tricky is because when I hear somebody say, I'm fine, I see that, as an immediate stop sign. It's like, I'm not going to disclose anything to you, but I'm going to make it very clear. I want you to stop asking me.

But the trick about fine is, you know, if you were to come up and say to me, I'm sad, but I'm working my way through it. Fantastic. I know where you are. You know where you are because you're able to articulate it, at least some level of awareness, but fine. There is no meter. There's no gauge for what fine means.

And, and I think it's important when people say, Fine, they could say, okay, they could say, as my grandfather would say, you know I'm able to sit up and take nourishment, you know, whatever it is, but fine. That is pretty like I'm able to sit up and take nourishment I guess we have to be over the age of 70 before we can start using that one But also that's like pretty 

Erin: baseline stuff.

 Cinnamon: that was he was a Korean war veteran. And so yeah, I don't know if he was ever more than able to sit up and like emotionally after he was sure. Yeah. so yeah, I think fine is a tricky word. And for own well being. It's It's something to consider removing that from your vernacular and get a little more familiar with those actual feeling words.

Yeah. 

Erin: So what happened to us that we started really considering all of these things and how, and it also folds into how we can't compare our trauma or our experiences to other people because we all react differently and are affected differently. Yeah, so 

Cinnamon: this I mean you had your head down looking at your phone So I guess I'm gonna have to fill in this part right and thank God like I'm so glad that you had your head down So and still I was affected.

Yeah, I mean, I think it would have been way worse if you would have and we both have issues with our own like traumatic past that relate to it, that, complicate everything. We'll get to that. But Aaron and I, as part of our private practice, we do, wellness programs for a lot of the departments in, our area and even not in our area.

We traveled to do it as well. And we happen to be working in a particular, departments area. we are working in a township and we are coming back from lunch and we're running late for, I don't even remember why. I think I remembered at the beginning. You forgot your, you 

Erin: forgot your computer cord. So we went back and then we were, so we were kind of rushing and yeah.

Cinnamon:So we're always rushing, are we ever on time?

Erin: Yes, but barely.

Cinnamon: So there's a tricky intersection and ultimately. Shortening the version that doesn't matter is we got into a collision. Now I drive, a Volkswagen Atlas, which is the largest SUV in their line that you can have. So I don't drive, a small car, it's got three, I like to say it has three rows and I am significantly far away from my passenger.

And, we had a collision with a motorcycle and, I distinctly remember trying to get out my driver's side door, after the collision and I'll be perfectly honest, my first thought, and then I think I vocalized it to you, was that motherfucker isn't wearing a helmet. God damn it. Mm hmm.

Because I have a long history of losing men I love. In motorcycle fatalities and. Where I was and where the airbags had deployed, I couldn't see him. And 

Erin: that was my first thought too. I'm fine. Where's the guy on the motorcycle? 

Cinnamon: And is there any reason you might be a little more affected by a motorcycle accident?

Erin: Yeah. Well, my brother was paralyzed in a motorcycle accident in 2009. So we were both super hyper aware of, holy shit. We got in a car accident, yes, but there was a dude there a second ago that hit us that did not have a 

Cinnamon: helmet on. And was in like a t shirt and jeans. 

Erin: Correct. So no protective gear whatsoever. And the thing is, it was one of those... intersections where it's like a hill and a curve and so one second he was there and the next second, or one second he wasn't there, then the next second he was, so Cinnamon definitely thought she had clearance and we found out we didn't. However, this, luckily, we turned around, we did end up having the ability to see the gentleman on the motorcycle who was actually standing there smoking a cigarette.

Cinnamon: Yeah, he had a cigarette lit before we could even get out of our door. which, you know. is fabulous, right? I overheard him talk, he said, I knew what was going to happen. I was driving tactically. he phrased it as I put my bike down. So it was the least amount of potential injuries.

but even that part, of course, It would be our luck that we had this, accident in the district that we were serving. So everybody and their brother and their sister showed up and, we had the chiefs and the township administrator and everybody on duty. like, we felt very loved and taken care of.

And, and even the ones who didn't realize it was us did a phenomenal. job. Like they were so professional. 

Erin: They were very professional and we did feel very loved and taken care of. And we also felt like a bunch of assholes for a second because how do you go from, Hey, let's do some wellness assessments on your mental health to, look at us.

We just got in an accident. thank you for coming to our aid and then go, let's just go right back to work and pretend like it never happened. 

 Cinnamon: and we didn't. That was, you know, I'm a big advocate. and we're making progress, but there's a lot of departments that will have, critical incidents and don't necessarily have either a policy in place or a practice in place where they let their folks off, for at least the rest of the shift, if not, the shift.

One or more shifts. And so this was one of those moments where I could, walk the talk and it was actually the very next person that I was supposed to, assess, is the individual that sighted me. So that was super fun and not awkward at all, and so jokingly I was like, if you give me that blue slip, I'm going to give you a pink slip.

And of course we all laughed and it was fun and then we hopped in the back of his car where the... You know where we can we got in the back of the cruiser, right? And drove home. but I 

Erin: want to say there's an important thing about this taking the time off that we were very clear that we were, our adrenaline was going.

So at that moment we felt fine, but we knew that when that adrenaline settled and all the dust settled and our brain caught up to what the hell actually happened, that we might not be. 

Cinnamon: And I told them, I said, I'm okay now, but I can't guarantee in three hours, I'm not going to be crying. But what I can promise you is you're not going to get the best version of me.

Because I'm still going to be back at this intersection while I'm sitting here asking you questions. and so it is important for me to role model what I'm asking and saying, even though I look okay, even though I'm cracking jokes with all of you and I'm physically fine, I know that I am not okay. And I will be okay, but there has been a, an event that has altered my nervous system, has filled me with stress hormones.

And I am not at my best when I'm thinking about giving out word, right? taking care of other people. and they were fine with that. Totally. Like they, 

Erin: they were awesome. They were very supportive 

Cinnamon: and even drove us home. Because we had no car 

Erin: and we, you still don't have a car, so it's important for us to share this part because there's a lot of things that kind of go into this story, which is the self awareness, which is being clear that, of course we're not saying that this basically ended up being a fender bender is in comparison to any kind of critical incident, but it doesn't matter because the fact is it elevated a ton of Different hormones and chemicals were dumped into our body.

We were also physically altered because, you know, our backs hurt and everything else. I mean, there was an impactful enough situation going on that it still affected us. And why this is important is because Even the next day, we were noticing how heightened our exaggerated startle reflex was and how we were being overly hyper vigilant like I at one point said, I would have turned eight turn left eight times by now.

Had this accident not happened and Everything felt very hyper focused and I noticed that I was constantly kind of watching my back. And so that's also a key part of this story is that for such a seemingly insignificant event, it still altered how we were going through our day to day moving forward the several days after that.

so it's important that there is awareness on what is your 10 and shit, most of us never see 10. Actually we can, but we also distract ourselves and boot 

Cinnamon: us all 10. maybe, 

Erin: but you know, it's like being aware of what is your normal levels, how do I normally operate? Am I normally like high functioning, anxious person?

Is it normal for me to have a heightened exaggerated startle reflex based on an incident, whatever that might be, what is common for you and that is a key thing to be aware of so that, you know, like, Hey, this is over and beyond what I normally what my baseline normally is. and this is a 

Cinnamon: concern.

and you talked about how you were very hesitant to make that left hand turn. the word that was coming to mind is every potential opportunity to make that left hand turn felt very risky. Right? Like, it was like second guessing whether or not you had enough time. and I noticed on the other side, I kept flinching and going, Huh!

Anytime there was a car on my side, And I was laughing about it. I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't stop. So it was like my body and my brain were having this startle reaction. That cinnamon knew better, right? My body couldn't control it. No, I could not control it And I mean it was what we had to do We have one one or two more days one more day of doing wellness checks and then you went home But then after that like it I mean, I think we're better now We've been driving around together And I, haven't noticed it as much, but even something so minor, like what you would call a fender bender.

Still left us a little bit tilted for several days. so

Erin: much of it is to like, I want to just emphasize this. It is several things contributing to those reactions. One, it's the accident itself. Two, it's the stories. It's the critical incidences, if you will, the incidences that we have experienced in our past with my brother, with Cinnamon's loved ones that have either been injured or passed away on a motorcycle.

So that's folded into it. those traumatic memories that our body holds on to, that is folded into it. And so there's a lot of different factors. 

Cinnamon: Well, so while we were in Kentucky, I got to watch our new friend, Trevor Wilkins, do EMDR. And one of the things that he had said that I thought was so profound was, What about the event triggered something from your past that made you feel helpless, hopeless, or less than?

And I want to go back to the very first thing I said when I was trying to get out of the car. that motherfucker doesn't have a helmet on. And I said it from a very angry place on the surface, right? But. Talk about feeling helpless when you keep getting these calls, at least once a decade, that somebody that you've loved has died on a motorcycle and.

Cinnamon: in that moment, it was like it was over, whatever we were going to go find we couldn't do anything about. And so it definitely hit my sense of helplessness. And then of course, anytime that you're at fault for an accident, you feel less than, and we joke about how Aaron always feels like she's going to die riding with me.

but. Yeah. and I know that she's joking, I know she doesn't think she's actually going to die with me but all of those jokes that I took in stride totally completely. Shifted on me and I went through that whole, like everybody thinks I'm a terrible driver, you know, because hell when I was drinking, I was wrecking cars left and right, and this is my first accident in over a decade, and, but that doesn't mean that old noise didn't come back that Aaron and my husband and my mom all say I'm a bad driver and I know they're joking, I'm just saying.

But it hurt my feelings and made me think they're not joking They're being serious, they may say it in a joking way, but they don't feel safe with me and now look, there's a reason why they shouldn't feel safe with me, even with over a decade sober and accident free. Like I'm still a terrible driver.

Cinnamon: and these are all. Those feeling thoughts, not thinking thoughts, right? It's what pops up when our cognition is shutting down and logic is not present. Yeah, and 

Erin: these feeling thoughts are also what's so directly related to anxiety and heightened anxiety. Mm hmm. It's not the we can't think ourselves out of the feeling.

Whenever we talk about anxiety, it's like I just feel anxious. and those are all the feeling thoughts. And to tie all of that back together. I wanted to point 

Cinnamon: that out. Yeah. And I think the what separates maybe I worry from anxiety and this is not scientific. This is not, I'm not pulling from the literature.

I'm saying this as an individual with anxiety is, I can worry about something and have that constant voice going, what if, or whatever. But when it's anxiety, it has that physical component where I like to describe it as it feels like little green men running through your veins.

And, and so as random as this is and honestly, as short as this episode is going to be, in talking to Aaron, I was like, we've got to do an episode about this

becausea, or trauma has been triggered in an event, our bodies and our minds have this metaphoric separation.

And they are doing two different things. And so when we say, I'm fine. We are Mislabeling because It's almost like there's not just one eye. There's two eyes. There's I the person talking to you and then there's the eye that is my body and So we were both able to say we're physically fine.

We understand like we're safe like We're good But our bodies are still going to have that reaction and we have to honor it, because we won't be our best, the best version of ourselves until we have that 12 to 36 hours where all of that, all those stress hormones are out of our body. And yeah, and when you have a live example like that.

you want to share it with your people. You don't want to miss the opportunity of taking the wreckage of your life and sharing it on a podcast for the benefit of your listeners. So you're welcome. Yeah. And 

Erin: also it puts us in that human category of none of us get out of this without being affected in some way.

and it's definitely. A great opportunity to share and educate and explain why, give a little backstory. 

Cinnamon: And Erin, will you be okay to get into a car with me while I'm driving again? Yeah, I mean, 

Erin: it's been so long you might not remember how to drive. Might have to retake 

Cinnamon: your driver's test. you loaned me your car this weekend while we were in Kentucky so I could go to Walgreens.

Oh, yeah. And you made it and made it back. I did not a dent, but the parking job.

You should have taken a picture of that and posted it. I don't know what it was like three feet away from the line. I don't 

Erin: know. It was a lot. I was like, Oh, but she made it back. On time. In one piece. Yeah. In one piece. And this is just a good time to check in with yourself. Be mindful. Be gentle.

Our bodies do hold on to stuff whether we think we're over it or not and, this is just a case in point. So 

Cinnamon: yeah. Watch out for the motorcyclists out there. They are small, but they are 

Erin: mighty. They are. It's gonna be winter soon. At least here in Ohio, Other places 

Cinnamon: will have the motorcycles. And please pray that I get my car back before Christmas.

That would be lovely. That would be lovely. Cause I'm over driving that Hyundai Kona. It's like a little roller skate. That is the world's worst rental car. Okay. I'm going to say goodbye because I got to go dry my hair and shit to get home. I'm going to 

Erin: say goodbye to go 

Cinnamon: to a session. And you go do a session and uh, Hey, you know what, Erin, what I'll call you later.

I'll just call you later. Yeah. Okay. All right. Bye. Also goodbye to everyone else. Goodbye. Bye.